1. The Broken Soul Project

    The Broken Soul Project Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    At Crait, petting a crystal fox.

    How Star Wars The Last Jedi made me realize my own mistakes as a Writer

    Discussion in 'Entertainment' started by The Broken Soul Project, Jan 5, 2018.

    Recently I read some interviews about the making of the Last Jedi (good film loved it, had problems with certain plot holes). and it came to my attention that Rian Johnson never actually rewrote his script. For a first write it's great, but upon inspection it can be improved a good bit in a lot of areas. I think we as writers become discouraged when we get criticism on our earlier drafts. I know I have been for a solid month and a half, but I think rewriting and improving what we have done and removing what is uneeded to the overall story can certainly help. The film's weird subplot with Finn and Rose made me realize my own just as weird subplot was just as unneeded because it adds nothing for the reader. Only myself in my odd wish fufillment writing style. Why go to this place when it adds nothing? Why set it in a place that's completely different place than the climax and therefore when something happens you don't get attached to that place? You have to learn to criticise yourself but you also need to realize you aren't as experienced writing as some other people it takes time to get to the point where one shot scripts or stories can actually come out decent. Nobody is perfect. Keep improving and trying with your craft.
     
    izzybot likes this.
  2. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,850
    Likes Received:
    35,470
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    Interesting to know that. I really disliked the film, but it's still worth looking at for why I disliked it, and I can see a couple places where a rewrite, or at least a second pair of eyes, would have helped tremendously.
     
  3. The Broken Soul Project

    The Broken Soul Project Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    At Crait, petting a crystal fox.
    well yeah aside from everything dealing with Luke, Rey, Kylo, and Snoke... the film itself was a mess. The whole Canto Bight political subtext stuff comes off as a bit telly don't showy. Holdo vs Poe was interesting but they undercut it with, you could explain the plan and everything would be fine but you are sitting here being dumb. As is the only thing you get is some throw away lines about how he's a flyboy and shouldn't be trusted. You could have a conflict of ideologys.
    Finn and Rose's relationship would be fine if they had been building to it. It's fun to watch but as a writer it falls apart when I realize what exactly is going on. I too had my own subplot with a trans character named Cassio. He would have met with his parents at his own home and be met with I accept you from his new family. Problem is the rest of the novel builds up something else that makes this seem out of left field. It's better for when he dies and you have that conflict in another book with his sister, and could be the main theme of the next novel, but it doesn't fit with what I had currently planned.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  4. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,419
    Likes Received:
    3,884
    Location:
    SC, USA
    Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I enjoyed it, but it really is quite a mess - I guess I was giving it too much credit for being a mess on purpose when really it just needed some more time to cook.

    It's always good to study the negatives - and the positives! - in other things and apply that learnin' to your own work. I think TLJ is good for that. Don't set your first drafts free into the world, like so many odd, cute, highly-marketable dog-horse things that're bound to wreak havoc on the local ecosystem.
     
  5. The Broken Soul Project

    The Broken Soul Project Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    At Crait, petting a crystal fox.


    Its funny because character wise I think last jedi is the best
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  6. surrealscenes

    surrealscenes Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    309
    Location:
    a room made of impossible angles
    It is Star Wars for millennials. The message was changed to make the universe all inclusive. Great way to make sure you can market to all those niches down the road.
     
  7. NigeTheHat

    NigeTheHat Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    1,774
    Location:
    London
    Are you sure? The wiki has this on it:

    Which suggests there was at least a bit.

    Personally I thought it was great. The Canto Bight sequence wasn't paced great but I disagree that it added nothing - I thought it was a deconstruction of the whole 'plucky hero' idea. They go off on a poorly-thought-out quest and end up fucking everything up - it was the last thing I expected to see in a Star Wars film, and that was really refreshing.
     
  8. 8Bit Bob

    8Bit Bob Here ;) Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2017
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    766
    Location:
    Somewhere on this Earth
    I didn't think it was a bad movie, but I didn't think it was amazing either. The whole Canto Bight sub-plot was dumb in my opinion, and and I thought the fight scene with Fin and Phasma could've been a bit better.

    Loved Yoda though!
     
  9. The Broken Soul Project

    The Broken Soul Project Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    At Crait, petting a crystal fox.
    Rian stated in an the interview I read somewhere that he wrote the script and mainly tweaked some of it. Not really reworking most stuff.
     
  10. The Broken Soul Project

    The Broken Soul Project Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    At Crait, petting a crystal fox.
    I don't think it was a purposeless sidequest, but the one mistake this film makes in the Canto Bight sequence is the telling and not showing. You get this great big monologue about how this planet is rich and makes money off of selling weapons to the first order as well as the resistance. Great... show it. Make me care. Make it so Rose grew up on Canto Bight so she has a bit of a connection here. You've got great stuff with the child laborers I wanted more of that.
    As for Poe I actually agree with you there on the plucky hero. The thing that would have improved it a bit for me is if he was a bit more of an extremist. If a good number of people didnt trust his judgement because of all the bombers who died. As is we get Holdo who doesnt tell him her plan for "reasons" when there is nothing about it that could be used by the first order. Now if there was a mole in the resistance then it would make more sense.
     
    Dracon likes this.
  11. Dracon

    Dracon Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    939
    Location:
    England
    Funnily enough I, I also had some reflections on The Last Jedi and how I can draw some lessons and take inspiration from for my writing. I do that most every time I watch a film actually. I didn't think too much about the plot holes, though I certainly knew they would be there if I looked for them.

    Let's just say one certain twist made me absolutely certain they had an idea of how the trilogy was going to pan out, but after the first film, they decided to change their minds. I think you probably know what part I'm talking about. They listened out for some audience feedback and decided to adapt. (How would you feel about doing that for a sequel that you were writing by the way?) But I actually think it was a good decision that they made.

    It is certainly a more commendable effort than A New New Hope - whoops, I meant The Force Awakens, sorry. Again, when Kylo Ren ditches his Darth Vader mask, it's almost as though the writers acknowledged nobody wanted A New New Hope.
     
  12. The Broken Soul Project

    The Broken Soul Project Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    At Crait, petting a crystal fox.
    I think Disney made Force Awakens to sort of win the trust of fans saying look we can do this we know how to make one. Last Jedi was their attempt to say we can also do something new with it. I really want Rian Johnsons trilogy considering it has nothing to do with any of the current characters.
    I agree with the twist and god knows Im glad. People were angry about how that was handled and Im just like... I dont want return of the jedi to be rehashed again. As for how i would feel after feedback going into a sequel.... thats tough to judge. I wouldnt be george lucas levels of stubborn thats for sure.
     
  13. Dracon

    Dracon Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    939
    Location:
    England
    I understand the logic behind it, after all, winning formulas are worth billions in the film industry, not like books, millions, if that. I was annoyed that they would take their audiences for granted like that (in fairness, they probably can take my money for granted, but that's beside the point!! :D)


    Tattooine, Naboo, Coruscant, and most recently in Rogue One, Jedha, Eadu(?) and Scarif, they were all memorable in their own ways. This was what was I loved about the sequel trilogy, as much as everyone derides it. Episode VIII really felt like it mostly took place in space, and I missed that world(universe)-building aspect of it all. It was why I liked Canto Bight, and thought we could have seen a lot more of it too.

    Yes, that was also the most pleasant surprise for me. It completely subverted my expectations. I suppose I am an easily swayed viewer/reader - I was agreeing with Poe all the way (though that was in part because I was sure Holdo would turn out to be a traitor!) - right up until they got busted, when I realised what a stupid plan it actually was.


    You brushed right onto one thing I was unreasonably grumpy about after watching The Last Jedi: why wasn't Holdo a traitor? I understand that she is already part of the Extended Universe (which I didn't know previously), but come on! She was giving off all the vibes, I felt and I was convinced and pleased they were taking the film down this route... Right until the moment they weren't.
    Of all the times the rebels have sneaked onto the villain's ship/station in disguise, of defectors, and you're saying that not one of the Imperials could not infiltrate the Rebellion? It is not inconceivable that one Rebel would one day decide that they'd rather be on the winning side, and sell out to the Imperials.
     
  14. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,864
    Likes Received:
    10,738
    Location:
    The great white north.
    I agree. It also set up the whole love interest thing that Rose has for Finn beyond rebel hero fan girl, which cleverly mirrors Finn's interest in Rey in Last Jedi. Wherein there's obvious interest on the side of one party that doesn't seem to be reciprocated, but saves the persons life anyway. It's also a point of character development for Poe where he learns a lesson about going in guns blazing/ trusting in others / the dire consequences of his actions and causes him to become a better leader because of it. I agree that the whole sequence was kind of a mess, but it did serve more than the purpose of selling tickets to millennials.
     
  15. The Broken Soul Project

    The Broken Soul Project Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    At Crait, petting a crystal fox.
    In all honesty i think the codebreaker should have been the mole. He could have been a great paralel to Lando. Have him on the resistance base essentially making him the reason why they are being tracked through lightspeed and why Holdo cant tell anyone except who shes closest to.
     
  16. The Broken Soul Project

    The Broken Soul Project Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    At Crait, petting a crystal fox.
    That irritates me when people criticize this film for being "too liberal" and "too millenial"
    I'm a millenial and I don't believe that. What's wrong with Star Wars having diversity? I agree with you they didnt just try to get millenials in the seats. I was in the seats of this movie before i became a raging liberal. Thats how much I love this franchise.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice