How to Write a Sleazy Male

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Georgie S., Nov 2, 2017.

  1. Georgie S.

    Georgie S. Member

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    I have no goddamn clue...
    You bring up another important point. He was drunk and she was not. I am well aware that alcohol can bring out the worst in people, and this was my plan to segway into this happening; he is a sexually deviant man but is sometimes better at hiding this, such as from his girlfriend, but when alcohol gets mixed in, the very very worst of him comes out. So I want to help develop this subtle characteristic of being attracted to many different girls and having trouble keeping his feelings to himself, which is then amplified when he gets blackout drunk. Does that make sense?
     
  2. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    The way you represent him as I have seen, he is a Tom-Cat that becomes Mr. Grabby when
    on the sauce. What exactly are the readers suppose to take away from that?
     
  3. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    You're running into the question of whether rape is (1) result of a man (edited to add: Yes, or woman) who is a helpless victim of overwhelming feelings of sexual attraction, or (2) whether it's a crime of power and violence.

    You can probably tell from my phrasing that I absolutely don't go with interpretation (1), whether the rapist is drunk or sober, and the same is likely to be true of a lot of readers.

    "Trouble keeping his feelings to himself" could, say, result in inappropriate remarks. A violent attack? That's beyond feelings.

    Let's imagine that I really admire someone's jewelry, and wish I owned it, and I express that feeling by attacking that person with a baseball bat and taking that jewelry. I don't feel that that could be legitimately described as me "having trouble keeping my feelings to myself". A violent attack? That's beyond feelings.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  4. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    So, this is what I'm thinking.

    You keep referring to him as 'sexually deviant' and there's this idea of him being attracted to a lot girls being the reason he's scummy. I don't think that's the crux of the issue. For this dude to have no probs cheating on his girlfriend and assaulting another girl, it's not a case of "I just have so much love (cough lust cough) to give!" - it's a matter of him feeling entitled to these womens' time/bodies. A high sex drive and being attracted to a lot of people doesn't directly translate into being unfaithful or assaulting those people - there's a different mindset there.

    To me, it seems like he doesn't respect his girlfriend, specifically, and probably not any of the other women he's messed around with. He's not 'attracted' to them - he wants them. It's a different impulse. If you're hungry and you see a delicious cake, you're not attracted to the cake, you want to own and eat that cake. Being drunk just lowers his impulse control and tips him over from "I'm owed this" to "I'm going to take this".

    So, in looking to characterize this guy, he's most likely got a general disregard for women's feelings, but he knows that this isn't considered acceptable. He probably tries to act like a gentleman or at least not a scuzbag, and he could even be pretty charming. He might have a decent relationship with his mom and even revere her / view her as the one worthy woman (the whore/madonna thing) - she might be the one who taught him to not act like an asshole. Or he might not care about her either, and he gleaned his ability to not be a asshole %100 of the time from society at large.

    His disregard for other people's personhood may extend to everyone or it may be gendered. Maybe he's an inconsiderate dick to guys too, and maybe he doesn't even try to hide that, because there's nothing that he wants from guys. Maybe he has especial ire for guys who are faithful/considerate because he views them as idiots (why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free, right?). Maybe he has some close-ish male friends who give his behavior a pass, and he views them as being like himself because of it, regardless of whether they really are or just see him as a harmless horny dude.

    When it comes to his girlfriend, he's probably pretty controlling. He's paranoid that she'll be unfaithful, because to him that's just what you do. But because he feels entitled to her, no one else should have her. That's pretty classic philanderer behavior.

    I think you need to develop this guy enough to make him unique if you want to avoid the cliche. Understand his behavior yourself - what drives him - so that it'll be consistent and not come off as as just generic gross dude qualities pasted on. You can also have male characters who don't behave like him so that he's singled out as one guy who's like this, not that every guy is like this.
     
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  5. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    Georgie,

    If you can stomach Horror, I suggest you purchase a copy of 'The hellbound heart' by Clive Barker. Pay attention to the character Frank Cotton in regards to his goals, methods, and how he views people -mainly women- in general. I feel this character is a good fit to study for the Archetype you are wanting to write about.

    -OJB
     
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  6. Odile_Blud

    Odile_Blud Active Member

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    Make sure the character has dimension. He can do all of those things, but people in real life (even assholes) have more to them than just one dominating trait. Maybe he takes care of his grandmother and that's a priority in his life, or while he's sleazy, he's still a friendly person who likes to make people laugh. Characters have many traits, personalities, a history, a mix of emotions, regrets, flaws, and qualities, and that's what separates them from a caricature.
     
  7. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    In general, "bad people," come in two varieties:

    Some have a skewed moral compass and think that the things they do, like cheating, aren't really wrong. Not only are they not wrong, or less wrong than depriving themselves, but hiding it to avoid hurting people is "good." This can apply to killers who think they are justified, rapists who think their victim was asking for it, thieves who steal from their corrupt bosses or people who have "too much and won't miss it." You also have people who benefit from other people's evil, such as the citizens of a corrupt democracy who enjoy plundered wealth without dirtying their own hands.

    The other kind are people who have some guilt about it, and may even have self-loathing, but value their indulgences more than their self-respect. Someone who kills for the drug cartel might fit this model if he believes he lives in an eat or be eaten society.

    So, your sleazy male is probably one of those two. Either he's a fiend who hates himself, or he thinks everyone else has the wrong idea on right and wrong. In either case, he probably hides it from anyone he needs to respect him or who would be hurt by his actions, and he values. Most sleazy people love to talk about their exploits with co-workers, internet buddies, strangers, or anyone else that won't connect back to their lives.
     
  8. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Point of note "he was blackout drunk when he assaulted her" Depending on what he did I very much doubt it, if you are blackout drunk your chances of overpowering anyone are pretty slim, not to mention whether you are sexually capable..... "I was too drunk to control myself/remember what I did/ know it was wrong" is a pretty common excuse by sleaze bags but its not generally an accurate description of circumstances
     
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  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    that aside ' Sleazy guys' are generally one of two character types (massive generalisation)

    You have Mr Horndog/Bad boy who's superficially attractive and knows it, this is the guy who tells girls he loves them to get them into bed but in the morning can't remember their name, he gets lots of female attention in the scene he moves in but he's incapable of fidelity. At the far end of the spectrum he doesn't think of his partners as people but just as a method of sexual recreation. If he assaults someone it will be because he thinks he has a right to their body (brock the rapist - doing an unconscious girl behind a dumpster and then claiming it was okay because she didn't say no, fits this model).

    The other type is Mr stereotypical loser, this guy isn't attractive at all, and knows it, he doesn't get female attention and probably resents women because of it, he'll say crude stuff and talk a good game about sex but in reality is probably either still a virgin in love with his right hand, or he pays for it. If he assaults someone its probably driven by rage over rejection or a perceived rejection, or it will be about power
     
  10. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    For a detailed insider view on sleazebag men, check out any of the "redpill" sites, like Return of Kings. Guys guving tips on how to score, why women are lesser beings, etc. That should give you all you need to write the perfect scumbag.
     
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  11. Georgie S.

    Georgie S. Member

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    I have no goddamn clue...
    Yeah, that's the main issue: there's nothing that makes him a decent character and not the worst person in the world if that's all there is to them, which is why I created this thread. But pretty much all of your responses have been very helpful, so thank you. I have a pretty good idea of how I want this guy to be. Let me know if this is alright, and if/how I need to alter this:
    So this guy, his name is Calvin, has been in a relationship with his girlfriend for a few years now and has "feelings" for her, but not in the same way he does with other girls. He is mainly with her to throw people off the scent of his true behaviors and treats her more like a friend with benefits than an actual romantic relationship. He cares for her and doesn't want to make her upset, but that is mainly because he feels that if she leaves him, people will start to catch on to what he is really like. He has a type, which will help avoid the idea of him being attracted to LITERALLY EVERY GIRL EVER, but never really sees them as people he wants to get into a deep relationship with; to be a little crude, he's more interested in humping then dumping them. A few months prior to the events of the story, he was caught making out with another girl and insisted it was all her to avoid his girlfriend catching on, but that's not entirely true. Later on in the story, his best friend (who is complicit and that is one of his major "character flaws" –aka what makes him a bad person) reveals to him what he did one night when blackout drunk (groped a girl repeatedly until she managed to get away), which he feigns horror at, but actually doesn't care, because he does not respect the girl's body or feelings like he pretends he does. He still doesn't want to come out and tell other people, because deep down he is aware that what he does is wrong, but simply doesn't care. Throughout the story, we get little hints to this via third-person limited narration with him as the pseudo-narrator, and this whole concept is revealed at the end, where he is then dumped by his girlfriend (and possibly gets some other comeuppance? I dunno, I'm not sure yet).
    What do you guys think? Thanks for all the help!
     
  12. EelKat

    EelKat New Member

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    Perhaps my next door neighbour can help you:

    First encounter: I'm attempting to go in my front door when out of the blue an old drunk man I'd never seen before, grabs my arm, and starts dragging me to the alley between the buildings while saying: "I need some loveys and kissys"; I kick him and run away.

    A few days later: a woman I've also never seen before, very drunk, stumbles over to me and says: "My uncle has come to live with us, he's just out of prison, but he's harmless, don't call the cops on him okay"

    A few days later: My boyfriend is working on my car, the same old rummy, a man I assumed to be in his 70s, comes stumbling over, says to my boyfriend: "You get away from her you hear." My boyfriend stands up to see who's talking to him, and the old drunk says: "I'm a Gnome!" then runs off laughing hysterically

    The next day he's back, does the same thing, this time, he hands my boyfriend a knife (big 10" blade switch blade). He's holding it by the blade aiming the handle at my boyfriend. Before my boyfriend has time to respond, the man starts yelling hysterically, screaming that my boyfriend pulled a knife on him!

    Every night for the following month, when I get home from work, I am unable to get to the apartment on the 3rd floor because the man is hiding under the stairs, and as soon as I start to go upstairs, he starts stabbing his knife through the stairs and grabbing my legs, while screaming: "I need loveys, Jesus came to the white room with me tonight and told me to get some loveys"

    After a month of this, he's waiting on the 2nd floor one night and grabs my by my hair and drags me back down the stairs, holding the knife to my throat while screaming: "God told my he don't like ya hair none, nope he don't, Jesus says ya has to cut it cause ya won't give me loveys."

    At this point I push him down the stairs and run away. Next thing I know there's a big black dog chasing me with the man yelling to the doog: "Go get her, get her good!"

    I run 4 blocks until I get to the police station (note that I am crippled, have a lame leg, and walk with a cane, so running this distance is no easy feat for me). At the police station I tell the first officer I see what has happened. He says a name, I don't know the name, He asks me if I can draw what the man looks like... well, I'm a artist by profession, so, yes I can and I did. The officer says: "That's him!"

    5 officers leave the stations while a woman officer explains to me this man is wanted for 27 rapes, and I was lucky to get away from him.

    He's arrested.

    About 6 months later, he's back... officer stops by to tell me, that the man is out of prison on a technicality and they are watching him, but to be careful as he's in the area again... turns out, though he was a wrinkled old rummy, who we thought to be in his 70s he was only 46 years old. Never would have guessed.

    A grand jury trail is set for 2 years away.

    2 months pass, and a new girl moves in next door, claims to be his girlfriend.

    On a weekly basis he gets drunk, drags her out onto the sidewalk and beats up up. On 4 separate occasions he siced the black dog on her. On one occasion the dog tore off most of her face and she had to have plastic surgery.

    On each occasion the police BEGGED her to file charges. Maine law, only the victim can file charges. The police could do nothing. In spite of dozens of witnesses to each event, he could not be arrested because of Maine law stating only the victim can press charges.

    March 2, 2016... the worst fight we've ever seen takes place and the man and one of his friend, beat the girl up again, on the sidewalk. 3 police officers BEG her to press charges. She says to the officer: "It's okay, he's just drunk. He loved me. He'll calm down in a few hours."

    March 5, 2016... the police are roping off the street. The building is evacuated. Me, my family, my neighbours, we are all standing on the sidewalk at 5AM wondering why the police woke us up and asked us the quietly and quickly get the hell out of the building.

    A hearse drives up. They carry the dead girl out. The man is arrested. He's now in prison on murder charges in addition to the 27 rape charges.

    ..........

    When you ask the habits of a sleazy man, one who'd commit sexual assault, and how to make it so no one is too surprised when it happens... that man, the one who attacked me, he's what I think of.

    A violent drunk, with a history of grouping women, chasing them into their homes, sicing his dog on them, swearing, drinking, pulling out knives... that was my personal experience with that type of man, so, if I ever had to write a sleazy man who will one day sexually asult the main character, I would base him off that man who had attacked me and then murdered my neighbour.

    Not sure if that helps you any or not, but, that's what I think of at least, when I think of a character like the one you are considering writing.
     
  13. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Wow seems that there is a tonne of creepers on the east coast.
    I think I will stay here on the west side, where you are reasonably
    safe from creepers in the middle of nowhere AZ. :p
     

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