How to Write British Speaking Characters

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by pensmightierthanthesword, Feb 4, 2017.

  1. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Yes, but there is 'non-entity' and then there is the genuine non-entity. I am something of a figurehead in the movement.
     
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  2. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    The cockney geezer is definitely a stereotype and originally was only found in the east end of london - those south of the river would definitely not identify as cockneys... however with the advent of Films like lock stock, snatch etc, and of Tv personalities like jamie oliver, recently we've seen a trend of Mockney , ie middle class people speaking cockney because they think its cool. (this also applies to Trustafarians - trust fund kids speaking with Rastafarian slang to show they are really 'down' )

    The other mistake american authors often make s to write brits as being distortedly posh (Tom Clancy was awful for this), the middle and upper classes do tend to speak in a relatively educated way but most of us don't call each other 'old boy' or end sentences in 'what' , or reffer to rugby as 'rugger' - that sort of thing is limited to public schools* and not even all of them

    (* in the UK Public Schools are actually top end fee paying private schools like Eton, Harrow, Rugby and so forth - schools funded by the tax payer for joe public are known as 'state schools' )
     
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  3. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Ya, achully, the reeally posh schools don't even play 'rugger' - as in Eton. Rugby was merchant, industrialist class vehicle of the 19c - as exemplified by the likes of 'Rugby School.'
     
  4. terobi

    terobi Senior Member

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    See, I have to agree with the people who have said that it massively depends on 1) WHERE your character is from (as specifically as possible - hell, there are dialect words that vary from village to village in some places!), 2) how OLD they are - as younger people have grown up in the age of television and the internet and are less likely to use regional terms (and more likely to use American slang), and 3) their social CLASS, because people with money or prestigious jobs are more likely to have had to soften their accent in order to be clearly understood by people from different places.

    The English language has a long and complex history, and different regions take words from different languages. Some of them have become more prominent, others have disappeared.

    See, I grew up in a working class home in Lancashire. My native accent is not just northern, but VERY northern. My speech is peppered with phrases like "ey up", "owdo?" and "owt/nowt". But here's the thing, since I started university, I found that I needed to soften it to make myself understood to my peers. When I started my PhD and completed the teacher training element necessary to teach the students, I was told I needed to soften it still further, because otherwise international students would struggle to understand.

    And after all that, my girlfriend (from Lincolnshire) keeps telling me I sound very northern. I've actually had to translate northern accents for a native speaker from Birmingham before now.

    This sounds complicated (and yes, it is - I know a linguist who is studying exactly this for his PhD), but you're not writing an academic paper here. The best thing you can do is find someone who roughly matches what you want to achieve (celebrities, movies, youtube, whatever you like), and pick out a few key phrases and ways of speaking. Don't try to write every phonetic difference between their accent and yours, that's just distracting. But the odd word and phrase does the job - give it to someone from the area you're trying to write about to read through if you don't think it works.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
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  5. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    In essence Brexit was a referendum on whether the UK should leave the European union ( The EU is an association of european countries with reasonably open borders with in it, and trade agreements and EU laws etc in place - it is not however a unification in the same way that the united states is, and member countries retain their own home rule). It is an abreviation of British exit. (hence why France are now talking about a frexit)

    The referendum result was close but in favour of leaving - this led to PM David Cameron resigning as he was pro staying in, the UK is now negotiating terms to leave and 'brexit' is now used to mean the actual exit - when people talk about 'a hard brexit' they are referring to also leaving the European free trade area (Soft brexit would see us leave the EU but do a dal to stay within the EUFTA)
     
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  6. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    My Dad used to transform up the motorway. Past Burton Agnes, I could never understand him. South Yorkshire is the most beautiful voice. North Yorkshire - I was so disappointed, they all speak...well, Geordie. Lancashire has been appointed voice of honesty & community in all political advertising, that's ongoing - 'Do you treasure our national health?' says the nice lady in the commercial, 'werking people who strive, blegh blegh...'
     
  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    And Geordies (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    Mind you I'm down in Devon and some of the old boys down here are pretty impenetrable - its a stereotype that everyone down here talks like the Wurzels "oh arrh Ivve got a bran new combine harvesterrrrr" most don't, but I find its not unusual to have to ask some of the older generation to repeat themselves
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
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  8. terobi

    terobi Senior Member

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    Could be worse...

     
  9. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Important for Americans, the term geezer has a rather different use in the U.K. than in the U.S. In the U.S. a geezer is a cranky old man. Heavy emphasis on the old. Though the term may well be used for an older person in the U.K., it's not as exclusively used in that sense as in the U.S. In the U.K. it can be applied to any bloke.

    Feel free to correct me if I've gotten that wrong. :bigoops:
     
  10. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    The other thing is to remember that cultural difference is probably more important than speech pattern in creating a believable national character

    Tea has already been mentioned (incidentally its native to china - the British imported it to India in the 1806, prior to that we used to trade Indian opium for it), see also chocolate, marmite, and beer (not lager, proper ale)

    Petrol is really expensive in the Uk compared to the US - a brit in the Us would probaby mention that a lot

    Gun ownership is much more tightly controlled - Shotguns are easy enough and rifles are a possibility but hand guns are a non starter

    Soap operas are a big thing - Eastenders, Coronation street (corrie), and Emmerdale

    The maximum speed limit is higher - 60 on single carriage ways, 70 on dual and mortorways and most people drive faster than that... a brit will not understand a limit of 55 on the interstate.

    British roads are a lot narrower, cars are smaller , and we drive on the left
     
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  11. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    Well, this buzzfeed link popped up on my FB feed this morning - it's pretty funny and it might help you get a grasp on parts of British culture :D I think perhaps even more important than how your character speaks is in fact how your character behaves. As for speaking, do your best and then get a British beta reader. I don't even know what particular mannerisms is really British (even though I'm from the UK) but when I hear an American speak, I can point out straight away the terms and phrases that sound foreign to me lol.

    Apparently "cheers" is a very British phrase. I never knew until recently.

    I've also heard Americans don't use the "have got" construction.

    Then you have your typical ones: lorry vs truck, bin vs trash can, rubbish vs garbage, rubber vs eraser, biscuit vs cookie, crisps vs chips, chips vs fries, jelly vs jello, jam vs jelly, petrol vs gas.

    For the longest time, I thought peanut butter and jelly sandwich was literally that - peanut butter and jelly, as in, English jelly. As in - this:
    [​IMG]

    Needless to say, I was rather puzzled. Until my American friend whipped out a jar of jam and I'm like, oooooh riiiiight! Funnily enough I knew jelly was jam in American terms but I just never made the link.

    We use the word "fancy" to mean "to want" or "to like someone". I think that's British anyway.

    I think that's all I know :-D

    Anyway here's the link: 21 brilliant British problems :coffee: Enjoy!
    https://www.buzzfeed.com/expresident/british-people-problems?utm_term=.ad6LwEeY2#.enzXBY8xq

    Side question: if jelly is jam and jello is jelly, why on earth are jelly beans called jelly beans, and not jello beans?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  12. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    We use it as a drink toast, but never to mean thank you.

    We do, but it's not a usual construction, and it sounds to American ears the way our very young people speak.
     
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  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    In the UK although any bloke could be a geezer, its mostly applied to the sort of wheeler dealer, second hand car salesman character "alright harry, wanna buy a new motor" or in some circumstances to your sort of low level criminal type - your average 'diamond geezer' probably wears a leather bomber jacket, oil stained jeans, and boots and isn't too bothered about minor things like the legality of drug possession or receiving stolen goods.
     
  14. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Ah, understood. Still quite different to the way that word is used in the U.S. In America a geezer is a crotchety old man who sits on his porch and yells "GET OFF MY LAWN!!" to young people. :)

    ETA: Also, I will add that geezer feels like an old fashioned word to this American tongue. I'm not sure this is a term younger people would use these days. Not 100% sure on that, though.
     
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  15. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    In the UK we refer to that as a 'Victor Meldrew' type referring to a sitcom from the 90's called 'one foot in the grave'
     
  16. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    'Cheers' is all over the place, same goes for moniker 'mate' which can set teeth to grate. Though, step up from 'mush' which I got all day from one knuckle-dragging 'enemy.' Guy tending the roadworks called me 'chap.' As in, 'alright chap, this is a non-through road...'

    Curmudgeon - for your old guy?

    Language disappears - my daughter and friend didn't understand 'gallows.' My manager had never heard the word 'precarious.'
     
  17. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I am an ex-American who has lived in Scotland for nearly 31 years now, so I've got a foot in both camps, so to speak.

    If you want people on the forum to help you, pinpoint as much about your character as you can ...age, sex, exact place of origin/upbringing, social class and what time period your story is set. We should be able to point you in the direction of movies or TV that would be appropriate, so you can get a feel for what the language sounds like. No point in watching "Notting Hill" if your character is from Newcastle. No point in watching "Pride and Prejudice" if your character is from 21st century Yorkshire. And there is no such thing as a 'Scottish accent,' either. It may be obvious that the person speaking is from Scotland, but there is a huge amount of variation here as well.

    There are so many regional accents in the UK it's not real. You'd be better off giving your character no notable language quirks than giving them the wrong ones. And it's more than just an accent as well. Sometimes it's the phrasing and/or the slang that makes the difference.

    However, here on the forum we're from all over the place. So if you are specific in your request, somebody will be able to help.
     
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  18. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    I pretty much know most of it, to be fair. This is, of course, my favourite recurring thread: my opinion on my self. We need a 'Booking a table in Wendys' thread to even up multi-nationalism, in my opinion, again.
     
  19. S A Lee

    S A Lee Contributor Contributor

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    @Mckk, we use the term jelly for seedless jam as well as the dessert in the UK. Scoop some out with a spoon and you'd be hard done to tell the two apart.
     
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  20. terobi

    terobi Senior Member

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    Where are you from? I've literally never heard of this before.
     
  21. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I wouldn't technically say that jelly is jam. In the US:

    - Strained jelly-jam-whatever that comes out clear/transparent and is a little bit extra stiff is jelly. If you can hold the jar up and see wavery images through the stuff, it's jelly. Edited to add: The classic peanut butter and jelly sandwich uses concord grape jelly.
    - If you (well, that is, the factory, since not that many of us make their own fruity preserves) don't strain it but there are no large globs of fruit, it's jam.
    - If there are large globs of fruit, it's preserves.

    However, "preserves" appears to have more snob appeal, so, really, the difference between preserves and jam tends to be price and marketing, rather than any real difference in the food.

    Edited to add: I just asked my SO, also American, and he described jam the way I described jelly and preserves the way I described jam. I didn't ask him to describe jelly.
     
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  22. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    We say raspberry preserve, mint jelly, & toe jam.
     
  23. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    Same. The only condiment I'd refer to as a jelly is mint jelly, as @matwoolf said.
     
  24. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    http://www.finecooking.com/item/37082/jelly-vs-jam-vs-preserves

    This is consistent with my usage (Ontario, Canada) - it's like a spectrum of fruit chunks - none in jelly, some well-ground ones in jam, and big chunks in preserves. The stuff between the fruit (the congealed juice) is fairly consistent in all three.
     
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  25. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I made red currant jelly last year, and cranberry jelly for Christmas - I think the difference is that in the uk jellies like this are usually meant as an accompaniment to meat dishes not as a preserve to have on toast
     

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