Hyphens

Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by CaliWriterWV, Dec 3, 2009.

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  1. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    kas just said it all for me, sos...

    and i'm sorry i got your gender wrong... didn't peek! ;)

    hugs, m
     
  2. Sound of Silence

    Sound of Silence New Member

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    Kas.

    But that's not solely the function of the em dash, is it, hun? What about it's use in parenthesis, abrupt pause - and summation as this guy is arguing? You can't say this punctuation mark does solely this job. As a matter of fact, if I was going for a longer pause than a comma, I would suggest the semi-colon as that it one it's functions. As it stands, this para leads to summation - a re-cap of everything previously mentioned.

    The guy himself is classifying the extended hyphen as summation - not as an extended pause to highlight a last point. The em dash (extended hyphen) has many uses, including parenthesis (as mentioned) - but this guy is talking about using it as summation, and summation only. And, to his knowledge, working with it as summation, the author is summing Ben as a symbol and nothing else.

    Summation takes everything previously mentioned and arranges all the lists into one key phrase, in this case - Ben is a symbol, nothing else. And that's what he's saying this author is saying and he's argueing, in this case, that the individual can't BE a symbol, he has to symbolise something.
     
  3. Kas

    Kas New Member

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    Sos, the em dash is by far the most versatile of any punctuating tool. Inevitably, there will be times when you could interpret it's usage in multiple ways. However, there is usually one interpretation that is obviously intended by the writer, and stands out above the rest as making the most sense in context. . . This is one of those times. Sure, you could willfully view the em dash as a colon, here, and thereby render the sentence nonsensical. I can't imagine why you would, though. . .
     
  4. CaliWriterWV

    CaliWriterWV New Member

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    I still believe everything after the dash is just supposed to be added on to what else Ben is to her.

    If Ben was really just a symbol for her friend and husband, why the hell wouldn't they just say the other guys name?

    Does it make sense to confuse your readers like that?

    That's why I believe the sentence means:
    That Ben is her husband and her friend. He's a symbol of what's important to her and is someone to be protected.

    And that's it. I seriously cannot understand how it can be read to mean anything other than this.
     
  5. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    YES, that IS what it means!... so why do you go on wasting time and energy on that clod who is so confused he makes no sense whatsoever on that issue???
     
  6. CaliWriterWV

    CaliWriterWV New Member

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    Because he follows me around and continuously tells me that I'm wrong about all this.

    When I'm obviously not. If I by any chance say Ben is her friend and husband, he barges in and says "No. He's just a symbol for it."

    That's why I need all the proof in the world against him. To finally shut him the hell up so he can leave me alone.

    But he's , like, in denial or something. And I don't know how I can shut him up.
     
  7. Kas

    Kas New Member

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    Tell him that a professional editor (maia) thinks he's full of bologna.

    When it comes to any non-subjective aspect of writing, maia is always right. She's been in the game her whole life, in a serious way.

    If that doesn't work, you've gotta learn to ignore people at some point. . .
     
  8. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I'd recommend ignoring rather than confronting. Thank him for his recommendations, but let them pass out the other ear.

    There's no point in arguing the matter with him. Over time you will learn who is credible, and who is merely puffing furnace breath.

    When in doubt, you can also refer to respected style guides like Strunk and White's The Elements of Style, The Little, Brown Handbook, The Scott Foresman RHandbook for Writers, etc.
     
  9. CaliWriterWV

    CaliWriterWV New Member

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    I know, I know. But now my friend, has been dragged into it. I guess I will stop talking with him.

    Oh, wow! That's actually kind of perfect. Do you know where I can find those? Are they on the net somewhere?

    Because, something official like that would really put him in his place for good. And finally show him he knows nothing about this stuff.
     
  10. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Go to the bookstore and get the latest editions. I haven't looked for the others online, but the online Strunk and White is a decades old edition. Language changes, and so do best practices in writing.
     
  11. CaliWriterWV

    CaliWriterWV New Member

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    Yea, my mom says she as the "The Elements of Style"
    So I'm gonna read.
     
  12. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    should be the silver-cover, 4th ed.
     
  13. Sound of Silence

    Sound of Silence New Member

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    Then tell him you've listened, thought about it, but chose to go your own way and he needs to respect that. Anyone who can't debate without getting nasty just ain't worth the time. Just like I've chose to go my way over this, and I stick by your friend being right, I'm not about to shout the odds off at anyone who gives a different opinion. It's what debate is all about. You have a world of experience on here, from authors, to proof readers to linguists (me holding a hand up for the last one there), there'll be a time when disagreement crops up, but that's the nature of the business, and it's how you handle it that defines you.

    And on that note, it's been an interesting debating point, hun. Thank you for bringing it up. ;)
     
  14. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    are you degreed in the field, sos?

    i'm very interested in the subject, being from 'can get along in' to 'can manage some words of' several tongues, thanks to hs/college-level studies and nearly 4 decades of world travel... so what does formal study in the subject consist of, other than [i would assume] etymology?
     
  15. Gannon

    Gannon Contributor Contributor

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    I can pick this one up for a brief explanation, as I am "degreed" in the subject. Linguistics does not study etymology as a core module. Its base elements are phonology and morphology (the building blocks of language, language broken down into its smallest parts but which still carry meaning), semantics (how word-level constructions of meaning interact to form sentences, and pragmatics (inference - how what is semantically encoded differs from what is pragmatically inferred).

    Beyond these core modules, which span an entire degree, there are add-ons such as historical linguistics (etymology (to a degree), and largely defunct paradigms which spawned today's usages), computational linguistics (think voice recognition technology), sociolinguistics (identifying markers in language that profile its user, and/or optional language variants) and acquisition (think speech therapy and first-language acquisition). There are of course further specialisations of these specialisations, and a few others not mentioned.
     
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  16. Sound of Silence

    Sound of Silence New Member

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    Yes, hun: BA (hons), a first, and working towards MA in applied Linguistics.

    Gannon covered the the majority (thanks, hun). My speciality is corpora linguistics (grammatical tagging, classification, interpretation of transcribed data banks (think dictionary and how they give different definitions of what a word means, corpora study classifies how a word is being used by looking at how frequently it appears in a wide range of data) among many other things to), but I also like investigating language aquisition (in particular a kid's morphological inventiveness with language). It's a mouthful and covers many fields, which is why linguist is easier.

    As for what my degree covered...Eesh, everything from socio to functional analysis. You tend to get a taste of everything, and there's a lot.

    Took a stab at stylistics as part of another qualification, but I'm pretty crap at that: prefer the mechanics of linguistics to the blind-folded guesswork of stylistics. :redface:

    And you. Mama?
     
  17. CaliWriterWV

    CaliWriterWV New Member

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    Actually, this guy is still going at it.Thank you for your help, though.

    Mama, do you think that how I'm about to say the following reply makes sense? I'm using the information I've gathered from you all in my final response to finally shut him up...hopefully.

    Is that a good response? Or did I confuse parts?

    I just really want to put a fork in this thing and declare it dead already. But this guy won't let me. That's why I need help in telling him he is wrong.

    If anyone has the time, please help me.

    Thanks ^^
     
  18. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Don't feed those who thrive on conflict and argument.
     
  19. CaliWriterWV

    CaliWriterWV New Member

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    Well, I wouldn't. But he's literally not letting this thing go. He's actually debating with my friend about it now. And my friend's been defending me against this whole thing. I don't want to leave him hanging there alone while discussing any of this, which is why I need to make a last post fully explaining all of this to to this idiot of a guy.
     
  20. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Give your friend the same advice. Make the conflict junkie get his fix elsewhere.
     
  21. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    if you can't stop yourself from giving this guy more time than he deserves, at least correct 'a' to 'an' in front of 'is' in the next to the last line of your first paragraph...

    but my best advice is to echo cog's...

    what are you asking, sos?... if it's about being a 'linguist' i never claimed to be one and am not... which is why i was interested in knowing what the study consists of... as for other such related 'labels' i'm merely a practicing philosopher/writer and writing mentor, having been a professional writing consultant [in private practice] and an editor, columnist, freelance writer [among many other non-writing-related things] in my old life...
     
  22. Sound of Silence

    Sound of Silence New Member

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    That's what I was asking, hun.;)
     
  23. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    'hun'?... with grandkids pushing 30, i'm probably old enough to be your grandma... 8-/

    or are you referring to what you see as my marauding nature? ;-)
     
  24. Sound of Silence

    Sound of Silence New Member

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    Lol. More like mum then. Although you'd have long since thrown me out on the street due to my lack of disrespect for my elders. Personally I blame it on my mother, but devils will sleep with devils and create these demons:rolleyes:

    But seriously, 'Hun' is a habit, a bad one at that, but it's meant kindly.;)
     

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