The point of a critique is to find out how readers see your writing. You're not going to be able to run after everyone who picks your book up in a bookstore and explain to them what you really meant and how they should be reading the book and how they're wrong about whatever. So what's the point in doing all that to someone who's giving you a crit?
Yep. It's asinine and short-sighted. And I have to say that more often than not I find that the arguing author is the one I end up thinking is wrong anyway. The types of writers who bicker with critiquers usually aren't all that good.
And - forgive the beaten dead horse there on the pavement - all of this would be non-issue if people addressed the process the way I do. Even when crits I receive are just non-sequitur or incomprehensible, I assume them to be the journey of learning of that other person. Why would I argue with that?
Sure, but when someone says I shouldn't have slaves in a Roman historical fiction short story since Romans "didn't have slaves", I can't really not point out they did.
Awww... *big hugs and kisses for Wayjor* You realize that I have actually wanted to critique this other piece you had in the work shop but I was too scared that it wouldn't be appreciated. I'm leery of anymore negativity you see. At times it feels like critiques brings more headaches than they are worth. I'll make a point visit when I have a moment because I was ever appreciative of your guidance on the poetry thread. You have to know, I've been a little infatuated since you did that...hehe Anyway, if I don't like your reaction I can just tell myself you were tripping. You are the nicest guy but seriously you might be the stingiest liker on this forum! Doesn't it feel cold in your workshop thread...the lack of likes...like you forgot to offer your guest something to drink? A biscuit to eat? Some candy? Hmmm... It always seems more welcoming to me to see a workshop thread filled with likes by the writer. To me it says, I welcome more feedback, I won't bite or get shitty at you if you tell me what I don't want to hear... Anyway, that's just my opinion and should be ignored, like all my critiques. I haven't looked but you are the best. I have decided I will never read Pride and Prejudice myself but if I know you are reviewing it, then I'll pop over there in a couple of days. I am sneaking onto this forum even though I am meant to be working. Thank you though, it sounds like a great idea.
This is the internet. If you're going on a mission to combat false information, you'd better not have anything else planned for the next million or so years.
I have a wee vintage copy of P&P. This print is from 1924, originally owned by a Miss Irene Jones who had lovely penmanship. That's what I'll be using. Spoiler: P&P
Sorry about that. It's certainly not a lack of appreciation. It's just not something I really take notice of. And I think an actual "Thank you" is more indicative of caring than clicking a "like" button. I'll try to remember in the future.
Honestly, if someone wanted to point out that they did have slaves in Roman times, coupled with their thanks and moving on, that wouldn't bother me. Just don't get drawn into an argument over the work (or the slavery topic).
To be blunt, your "Thank you" is not registered against a person's appreciation stats. That's what a LIKE is to me. An indicator that I was appreciated for whatever reasons, that my efforts meant something to someone. It's not difficult to figure out why a Like is useful as a quick measure at a glance. Someone is not going to dig through your history of posts and say, "Ah hah... there it is!!!! This dude called doggiedude said thanks last year for some random workshop thread." I find it completely confusing to see a Thank you without a Like. To me the Thank you feels colder and if I were honest, a little empty. But that is me, I'm easily offended. In 6 months I'm not going to sit and think, that review I gave doggiedude, he said THANK YOU and feel warmed by it. I'm going to look at my stat and think, oh...it's pretty healthy. I guess I'm not that hated after all. This forum appreciates me, I should do more. That's just how I work. And it is completely up to you if you remember, but I know that for something that takes seconds to do when I am expecting people to read my stuff that can take ages, I'm never going to forget. I don't want to leave it chance that they feel less than appreciated for their efforts.
Everyone here is in competition with one another, in one form or another. People can be as friendly or as flirty as they like, but when it comes right down to the nitty-gritty we're all enemies. You aren't here to make us better writers? Well, obviously! The most productive improvement is self-improvement and one can only do that (surprise, surprise) by yourself.
Yes, @Wreybies, kindly stop with your constant flirting! But, seriously - I disagree about us being in competition with each other. I mean, partly because people are writing in all different genres, but also because that just doesn't seem to be the way writing works. I don't think it's the way publishing works, either. I think there's a definite 'rising tide lifts all boats' mentality with most writers - if readers find one book they love, they're likely to read more, buy more books, help everyone out. Harry Potter and Fifty Shades didn't raise the sales numbers just because of the copies of those books that were sold, but also because of the copies of other books that were sold once people remembered that reading can be a good way to spend your time.
Well I wouldn't say that. The reason this server was made was, so a bunch of different writers could come together to help each other make their ideas into full-fletched books. If we were all in competition with each other I highly doubt this forums would exist or even be conceived. “A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality.” ― John Lennon
Can't help it. One day I mastered that coy glance up through long latin lashes, and that's all she wrote.
Exactly, the reasons farmers produce so much more today than 100 years ago isn't because of sharing technology, education, and process changes, its because they found their center.
Yep, let's pretend that sarcasm is the highest form of wit.. We are all in competition... the variable is "in one form or another". It's not really up for debate, which is the reason why I wont debate it. The reason people use this website is not to improve as a writer, how can it be? It's akin to the blind leading the blind. You learn by doing.
Depends. I don't remember if it was here or another forum, but I critiqued someone's work and told them that they'd neglected to mention (x), which made the story hard to follow. They wrote back, politely pointing out where they'd mentioned exactly (x), and asking if it wasn't clear. I'd screwed up. reading too quickly without enough attention. Totally glossed past it, and not because the writer had hidden it. Sometimes it's worth engaging your reader at the critique stage if you really think that the mistake is theirs and not yours. However, it's not worth arguing. If they persist in not seeing your point, either you've written it poorly or they aren't your target market. Either way, time to thank them and move on.
Interesting thread. It's tied up a few loose ends for me. I joined up here primarily to better my own writing, but as the community supports me I want to give back to it, so helping others (or at least trying to) has become just as important. I'm not pretending that everything I give in a critique is a vital lesson in itself, but I think that even if the recipient decides I don't know what I'm talking about, I've helped in that they've had to consider something and consolidate their own ideas. If I viewed critique as a selfish pursuit, I'd never comment on aspects of the writing (good or bad) that I was already well accustomed with. But I don't know what the experience of the other writer is, and what's old-hat to me may not be to them (particularly if I see something as a shortcoming, perhaps it's not). If it were a purely selfish pursuit, I'd just read it critically and not comment at all. But as I see it, the other writer has put something up as a free communal learning experience, and what I take by reading, I should give back by commenting. Regarding arguing/discussing and 'Likes' - I received a critique that included one point I didn't agree with (in a semi-objective grammatical way). I'd have ordinarily moved on, but the user's comment directly referred to changes in their own WIP revolving around this point. Given that they'd taken the time to comment on mine, that the critique process is about learning for oneself, and that they too had a current Workshop thread, I shuffled over to see how they'd handled the topic in question and offer my opinion in case they hadn't considered it (and I'm glad I did, because it was a good read for a plethora of other reasons! - I gave a full critique). I recognised that I might seem like a pushy, argumentative knob in doing so, but my intentions were pure... then I didn't get a 'Like' (or any other recognition, despite comments to subsequent posters), so I thought I must have ticked them off. But just recently I received a 'Like' for it, and this thread seems to explain why Nice to have closure, and no hard feelings on my part (hopefully yours too). Not sure I'd engage like that again though, as I'm sure I did just seem like a prideful wanker (even more so than usual) and I want to encourage discussion, not stifle it.
I'm guessing that was me. I'm totally surprised that people put so much stock in a "like" button. If I've offended anyone, it was completely unintentional. I'll try to be better about it.
Ditto. I'm pretty new here, still feeling my way around, and I hadn't realized that the "like" button was that important. I've generally been using to indicate a sense of approval that isn't strong or specific enough to warrant further comment, so I'll often either like or reply, but not both.
