@ChichenFreak- That was some solid advice. On days like today, no work or any household chores I must attend to, I will usually do exactly as you're advising. But even then my education didn't go beyond a couple of college level courses held within the constructs of a high school. I do read quite frequently but sometimes I think I take something my "mentor" said to me a little too far. He said sometimes writer's develop different writing styles which encompass their signatures. He told me that at times it's okay to break away from some constructs of grammar if it's for the purpose of how you wish something to sound and that becomes a big contribution to what makes up an individual writer's style. I think I have issues with where to draw the line and after years of being out of a school environment I find myself second guessing so many aspects I get to a point where I want to give up. I don't have that person at the front of the room to tell me if all this writing I am doing is right or wrong. Over the seven years it's developed into a fear that I went too far into what my "mentor" said and adopted some bad habits that I've tricked myself into thinking are correct. Due to circumstances in my life I cannot, at this time, seek any refresher classes or college. Despite how it may seem, however, I do make many efforts on a daily basis to better all we are discussing. This is an important thing for people to know about my writing. I do not write to profit. I do not write in hopes I will get published. I write because I enjoy it. Yeah, I have a plan to eventually try some form of publication I can afford. This is something I will do just so I can say I did. So I don't wonder what if. But if my writing was to always stay to just me I am 100% okay with that. But even so I am not making any attempts for at least five years, probably closer to ten. I am aware I am still too inexperienced to even be taken seriously. Perhaps if I had stuck to schooling this would be different but I have accepted that writing will be a long haul endeavor for me and that now helps me enjoy it even more. Also note that my previous posts were made in the rush before work. I like my sleep so I only give myself about an hour to do the morning routine (which due to my work schedule is in the afternoon haha) and my internet "tasks". On the weekends I have the time to edit properly and not fly through a post. With that said, how does this post look? Any better? @DrWho Thanks for the tip on a resource. I will look into that tomorrow. =)
I hear you. I am 60 now, and my first attempt at a novel was written back in the mid-90s, when my wife and I were neck-deep in raising two children with developmental disabilities and I was working a well-paying job that at the time would sometimes have me for lunch. Writing was my refuge, and I didn't give a second thought to the quality of what I was writing save for the quality of the characters and the veracity of the story where historical events were involved. I didn't even keep track of word count. When I was finished and thought I had done a fairly good job of editing, I finally got around to checking word count. First novels are generally expected to be somewhere between 80,000 and 120,000 words. Mine was over 400,000. A friendly agent gently rejected my novel but also pointed out some very elementary mistakes I had made. I went back and pared it down, finally reaching 140,000 words before deciding that the project had served its purpose as a learning exercise and a way for me to focus my writing efforts when everything else I was writing was in the realm of advocacy. I don't usually judge people's writing by what they post online in a forum. There's no way to know how much thought was put into it, and lots of posts here tend to be "flow of consciousness" stuff. No way to know if they even proofread it before they hit "post reply". So, it's unfair to look at a post as a true sample of someone's writing. If you would like me to take a look at something you wrote seriously, PM me and we'll set something up. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about lulu.com. As I recall, it's some kind of self-pubbing page. My advice would be to defer ANY kind of publishing until you feel like you've got a good handle on what you're doing and why. I would recommend getting involved in the Writing Workshop on this forum. You have to be a member for a while and you have to critique two other works before you can post something of your own for critique. But even reading through the other posts and the critiques they receive may give you some idea of the issues to be confronted. Critiquing is a great way to learn to self-critique (and I say this not having critiqued on the forum in a long time - a classic case of "do as I say, not as I do" - although I have done some critiquing on a private basis), which in turn is a critical skill if you are going to be serious about writing, which it sounds like you are. One other thing to keep in mind about this forum: a good number of us here are committed to success through traditional publishing, and sometimes we tend to look at things solely through that lens. In traditional publishing, errors in SPaG (that's Spelling, Punctuation and Grammar) are immediate red flags when querying agents or publishers, so folks around here tend to jump on them pretty severely. It's actually a helpful reflex to develop, so I hope you won't take it personally.
@Mysticwriter612 No problem. I've been surfing most of 20 years now. I do what I can to be as eloquent as possible everywhere. That PM'ing sounds like a good idea. Anyone wanting help with grammar, such as punctuation and understanding prepositions, thus commas, should they ask anyone on the forum who knows English well, they should get advice. It's up to you to sort out the difference between responses.
It sounds like your major stumbling block might be a lack of confidence. You sound like you're going through a rough patch at the moment. You sound like you have a dream but you're afraid that maybe it won't work out (in this respect, we're all in the same boat actually lol). My advice? To hell with all the advice and editing - right now, what you need is to rediscover the fun of writing and that, actually, hey, you're pretty good. Write something that you're proud of - it doesn't have to be good by anyone else's standards. It's for yourself only. Enjoy it, indulge it, and love it. It doesn't matter whether you get published or not. What matters more is if you believe in yourself and your writing. It seems your lack of higher education is costing you your confidence. Look, a degree isn't all that glamorous and a lot of us fluke through degrees (I was one of them). A degree or the lack of is NOT an indicator of your ability, of your intelligence, of your quality, of your worth, and certainly not an indicator of your writing talent. Neither of my parents went to university - it's my mum's lifelong dream to hold a university degree and she still hasn't got one. Are they, therefore, "stupid" people who'd amount to nothing, whose ability simply well, "isn't quite there" because well, you know, they haven't even been through university. The highest my mum has is secondary school education. Nonsense. Don't listen to the lies. My dad's an accountant and my mum worked many years as an accountant assistant and is now a preacher, and currently together they're studying for a lay preacher's course. They emigrated and functioned in an entirely foreign language (Chinese over to English), mastered it enough to work in any regular English office and enjoy movies and books. They went from complete poverty to being middle class and sending two daughters off to university. And heck, they're in their 50s and still studying lol. I know your circumstances are probably different. Your struggles will be different. I know, I know. But what I'm saying is - look, my parents made something of themselves through sheer hard work, against quite a lot of odds, esp my mum. Neither of them are "educated" in the sense we understand it today, as neither of them have been through much schooling by today's standards. They're wise, smart, wonderful people who have succeeded in many areas of their lives, despite all these odds. My mum, I think due to her lack of opportunities in life, still second-guesses herself. She tells me all the time that she is the stupidest person in the family, that she has no talents, there's nothing that she knows. It breaks my heart - and all because she hasn't had the chance we've had. All because she hasn't achieved what she feels she should have, or what everyone else seemed to have, through no fault of her own. So I like to remind her, actually, she's an excellent teacher, she's excellent at organisation, she's an excellent mother and giver, she's diligent and sacrificial and wise and obedient to authorities and stubbornly honest and moral. All this counts for something. She's not "nothing", and you're not either. Just... don't undermine yourself because of your lack of opportunities, or your unfortunate circumstances. And certainly don't believe you're anything less just because of a lack of higher education, or that somehow you're bound to achieve less. You want the truth? Both of my ex-boyfriends are highly educated, one of them with a PhD and the other studied mostly on scholarships. They're both assholes Qualifications and achievements don't have to mean anything, so don't place your self-worth or your ability on it.
There is a lot to reply to so if I miss anyone I am sorry! @EdFromNY- If you are sure about that offer I do have something very short I would absolutely love a second opinion about. I'll PM you soon. I will also look into critiquing. You are now the second person (first person being my mentor) who advised me to get involved with a workshop. Guess I shouldn't continue ignoring that tool haha. You sound a lot like my teacher. You should look into his website sometime. He wrote a book based in Buffalo, NY that I absolutely loved and I am actually in the acknowledgements. @DrWho- I do realize I over reacted about things. I do that =/ Personal flaw of mine. I can get super touchy about writing if one thing is said wrong. This ties into what Mckk's post was about. But I also can and have handled constructive criticism just fine and encourage it. I am trying to keep in mind that it is common for people who don't have English as their first language to be on this site and that that is why what was said was said. I just don't want, let's say EdFromNY, to be afraid to tell me where my flaws are. @Mckk- I cannot thank you enough for most of what you said. You're completely right about where my lack of confidence comes from. I never held diplomas at much value. I work in a factory with people who have them and we are doing the same jobs. My mom has one but it was useless to her when she was able to work. But when it comes to English and it's many forms I see how well it helps people. Where I do have confidence? My creative flow. My mind can come up with some pretty nice twists and turns. I can paint this huge picture of how everything will play out. I use an outline I came up with (its a morphed version of one I learned in one of my college level classes for research projects) which helps me keep things organized. Prior to using it my creative flow would look like metal illness in raw form. I look back at how much that one tool helped me and it just makes me wonder what else I could have learned. Right now I am lucky to get 10 hours away to write as my mom and girlfriend are ALWAYS around. I can't go to a motel for a night either because my budget is so tight I have to figure in a coffee. With that said, I haven't gotten into teaching myself these things. I will, trust me, but right now I am just focusing on releasing this built up creative flow with the time I have. Take today for instance. I thought I would have all day to write. Then my girlfriend wanted to watch football (yeah, we are a bit backwords...) and the only TV in the house not in use? Right next to me. Then my mom needed some help and dropped a big household project on my lap. What was going to be ten hours of writing has turned into three. The tail end of my mental readiness =/ Not the freshness I was hoping for. But anything more on these topics should be handled through PMs as this thread has gone way off topic at my own fault. Any replies to the above please PM instead. Thank you all for everything though! You all helped me not lose motivation yet again. The last time I tried to join a writing community I had some nit pickers who were much more rude than here and it put me at a loss for writing for months. You all saved that from happening and I cannot thank you enough =) Okay so what I currently need help with, to get back on topic, is how to properly do the research I will need to do. I will need to research plastic surgery and the skin GRAFTING process. I fear if I just google it that the results could be false. I never researched for a creative novel I was working on because of the genre (and yes I know, this doesn't mean not to research, bad decisions on my part I am aware) letting me create and alter any and everything. Now I find myself a bit clueless. I think I am deciding to set the story in Pheonix. I am from Buffalo, NY so I will need to research the location in depth. I will need to know everything from the climate to specific locations. Let's say, for instance, my main character finds himself out for lunch. I want his location to be a real location. Those two things are my hold up right now. I found some good sources on learning the mind of the twisted to help me better get into my character (which given the subject of my novel has been rather...creepy) and refine some character development. But I was hoping someone could guide me in the right direction on these other two topics so I can feel assured I have accurate information. I AM NOT ASKING for people to do the research for me. Just a push in the right direction =) Thanks to everyone!
How would one go about researching Pheonix? I need to know about the roadways, locations such as bars and restaurants and more, and the climate. There is more information I will need but I'll start here. I just need someone to explain how to find the above information. I just need that push in the right direction lol. Google has been my friend these past few years but it seems to be failing me lately which is what brought me here. Maybe I am using google incorrectly? I used to know punctuation to add to your search to provide different results. Perhaps I am missing something like that?
AAA tourguide book? Or any number of other travel/tour books. For climate, there are a lot of weather sites that show climate by zipcode, or you could look for gardening blogs and other gardening information by people in that area. Edited to add: And also city, Chamber of Commerce, and hotel websites (hotels tend to have some information about local attractions) for Phoenix and nearby cities/suburbs.
There is no real substitute for an in-person visit. The Internet, good as it is, is not the answer to everything. To know the smells, the dryness of the air, the sounds, how people behave to each other and toward strangers, and a million other subtleties, you have to go there in person. A city cannot be a cliche. But counting on secondhand observations of a city can be just as lifeless as any cliche. Choose a location you know well, if at all possible. Also, I didn't check whether anyone already set you straight on this, but the term is "skin graft", not "skin graph".
Realtor sites, city websites and doing a search for other books written using that city as a setting. Jules Verne was rather adroit at imagining settings from taking in places through other writer's eyes...
You could try a smaller town like Modesto or Stockton, CA. Both have high burn rates from meth lab explosions and the location is ideal with lots of open space to kill people and not get caught for a significant period of time.
Thank you all! Very helpful. Some of this stuff I feel dumb for not thinking of haha. @Cogito- I can't afford a trip like that unfortunately. That and I don't feel my area would work.
If your concern about your area working is about the number of plastic surgeons doing the procedures of interest, I'd suggest doing a little more research before you dismiss it. Unless I have threads mixed up, you mentioned calling your hospital, and the number of procedures that you mentioned was so very small that it made me wonder if that work is being done at some other facility in your area--rather than your conclusion that that work isn't being done in your area at all.
In giving it more thought an actual hospital isn't where half of them would be done, while the other half wouldn't be in a private practice as was the idea for the story. Intensive care would be immediate and not something taken to a private practice. Clearing up scars after, however, does match, but it does not match the motives of the main character. As a small part of the whole picture he uses skin from his victims on people who need it. If you could follow that I will be shocked xD Hopefully you get what I am saying. The point is I have to change some things about the original idea of my story and figure out a way for it to still let my big picture still work. I need him to have a private practice but technically half of the work I was thinking he would do would be brought to a hospital. A hospital is too busy and full of people for him to do his terrible deeds. Guess I got some more bugs to work out before I start research. Do to a medical issue with my wrist I might have to put this entire project on a month long pause. This severely depressed me =( But if I do not reply to the posts I AM NOT IGNORING ANYONE! I just don't have the ability to reply. This is also bad month for the time I need to vest into this, so the pause works for two reasons. I will still be reading what is said and make attempts to reply. I appreciate every bit of advice and help. I will eventually get more into this community once I have a bit more time. This site has been an amazing tool at helping me get started and reunited with my writing! Okay so now I have a far better idea how to go about getting the information I need. Again you all have been an awesome help! I have an unrelated question but it is one I have been asking since my very first piece. Say you wish to use a name brand the majority of your intended audience should know such as Koolaid. Can I just use it on the fly or does there need to be some sort of tag? Sometimes I see authors create their own, use already known one's with a TM or R symbol, or just use it with nothing. Which is right? This might be the same question, but what about locations like Tim Hortons or Mcdonalds? This ties into learning the location so in a sense it's related to the topic so I didn't feel the need to make a new thread. If I should have please let me know =)
In using the name of a brand name product, there are only two points to be aware of. First, and most important, if it is a brand name, it should be considered a proper name and always used with caps and in the proper form in which the company presents the product - (McDonald's or Tim Hortons (Note: Micky D's uses a possessive form apostrophe, Tim Hortons does not) or Kool-Aid). Second, if you show the product in a negative light even, in some circumstances, being enjoyed by a 'bad' character, you might find some resistance from the manufacturer. Generally speaking, however, unless you portray the brand as inherently evil, in itself, manufacturers usually follow the old Hollywood axiom, "Say anything you want about me, just spell my name right."
using italics is not necessary and would be corrected back to normal font by most, if not all editors... by me, certainly...
This^ or just Google Maps, satellite view. Not only will it show you anything and everything about the city's layout, streets and businesses, but you can zoom in to street view and literally walk down virtual streets.
A couple of Stephen King works. I can't remember the exact titles, and I'm not going to dig through my roommates entire collection to find them.
in your ms, i'd strongly suggest sticking to the standard of just capitalizing brand names and not italicizing them... if a publisher's house style calls for italics, that'll be done later... writers with major clout like stephen king can get away with a lot of things you can't...
Thanks for the information on the brand name stuff. Spelling it right and having the proper capitalization (although I know I didn't do this in my post) was what I had in mind. Interesting input about if a "bad" character likes it. I will have to keep this in mind. @mammamaia- I am still very new to writing. I've written several novels all for my own personal interests. I won't be seeking anything serious for at least five more years (I am not putting a real date on it, that's just an estimate) as I realize there is far more I must learn, not only about my writing in general, but also how everything works. My posts are probably a prime example of the work I have ahead of me. I want to get to a point where I don't have to stop and think about things as I go such as imagery, grammar, or hell even how to use commas. Once I get to a point where it comes more naturally in the raw state of my writing then I will be looking into the business end of things. For example, I never knew word count mattered. I am a long ways away, but for now I do have one question for you. Hearing a tid bit of information about how an editor would probably revert the italics on a brand name got me wondering about something I planned on doing. In my story, 3rd person narrative in past tense, I do have some first person thoughts casted by my main character. These will pop up randomly throughout the story as things trigger his insane thoughts; sometimes revolved around dialog while at other times around the narratives. To show they aren't audible and merely his thoughts, I planned on using italics to display this. Someone recommended I just use quotations still but to me that would be confusing. Did he say it to someone else? No, he thought it. So I am curious what your recommendation is for such a thing? Anyone can throw their two cents in about this but for some reason I am especially interested in mamm's input =) Also note while, yes, I did say I am not taking things seriously for quite some time, every piece I work on is done as if that wasn't the case. I fool myself into thinking I will be sending it off to an editor and publisher even though I am not so that when the day comes where I do have something I wish to do that with I am more ready. Thanks again to everyone partaking in helping me!!!!! Seriously, I have had some bad experiences on sites like these, and so far this site is the winner.
first of all, " " are properly used only for dialog--what's spoken aloud... they're never proper for thoughts... as for what you're doing, who is the narrator?... is it the character whose thoughts you're peppering the story with?... another character?... or a neutral/omniscient observer?... and, since the narrative is in past tense, how do you segue to the mc's thoughts? i'd have to see a couple of sample excerpts, before i can tell if what you've done will make it past a publisher's editor, or not... you need to read what i've said about spending money on an editor that you'll most likely have no chance of ever recouping: as for hiring an editor, since this comes up so often on the 3 writing sites i post on daily, i've had to prepare a stock post, to save typing time... hope you won't mind: in re hiring an editor [i provide editing services, though i caution against it], you need to accept the fact that the money you spend on having someone else do what writers must be able to do on their own will most likely never be recouped from the sale of your work... so, if you do go ahead with it, be sure you don't need to make it back, because not even the best editor in the world can ever guarantee the work will be accepted by a paying publisher, or will sell well enough to come close to equalling what you paid, if it is... same goes for if you self-publish... also, no editor who can do a good enough job for you will be cheap... it will cost many hundreds, to several thousands of dollars [US] for a good, professional editor to bring your book up to publishable/readable standards, depending on how much work it needs, as there are several levels of 'editing'... from simply correcting typos, punctuation and minor grammar glitches, all the way up to a complete rewrite, if the writing quality is poor... those who offer to do it cheaply, will not be able to do much [if any] better than you could do on your own... anyone can set up shop and call themselves 'editors' these days, but few will actually be worthy of the title, so vet any you consider using very carefully and be sure to get a sample edit before entering into any agreement for services...
