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If there were a pill to make me straight, I would not take it

Discussion in 'Insights & Inspiration' started by A.M.P., Jun 9, 2015.

  1. Mckk

    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    @Aidan Stern - sometimes people surprise you, though. Sometimes when it finally concerns their own, their minds change, their hearts change. I don't know - give your family a chance. However, I'd only open up to them once you have figured out yourself answers to your own questions.
     
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  2. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributing Member Contributor

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    Well, there's LGBT clubs and cafes where we can be in our own world, as well as connecting with other people like us generally, safe space areas (e.g my school) were the gesture of such a designation assures us we are safe, and just knowing there are allies. I don't really know any homophobes personally, so actually it's rather easy. I'm in a very comfortable place right now. Though once I have to femd for myself a little more I'm sure I'll encounter some of the bad stuff. But I'll be okay.
     
  3. Shattered Shields

    Shattered Shields Gratsa!

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    Homophobia is a damn disease, right up there with sexism and racism. All studies in ignorance and hate. I just can't fathom why people would care so much about what other folks do in the privacy of their bedrooms.
     
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  4. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributing Member Contributor

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    If it helps, one thing I try to do in my SciFi/Fantasy WIPs is to write non-human species that biologically do not understand the urge to segregate the way humans do.
     
  5. Aidan Stern

    Aidan Stern Active Member

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    I'm holding out until college (just a little more than 1 year left), but I also don't want to burn bridges.
    I get what you're saying though. Simple yet Powerful words, though. I cried a little bit. My perfectionist streak and my "people pleasing" habits run strong, and it's very hard to do something for myself.
     
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  6. Aidan Stern

    Aidan Stern Active Member

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    Yeah, that's probably the best option. Still, the risk of losing my family scares me. I really don't think my dad will change. I won't go into detail, but he's messed up. And my mom is pretty strong I her beliefs, but she has surprised me before. Then again, something this big isn't something she'd let slide.

    I don't know. I'm just tired of always second guessing myself and analyzing absolutely everything I say or do.
     
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  7. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributing Member Contributor

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    Well, imagine someone was doing something pedophilic in the bedroom. Still don't care? That's how they feel. Someone is doing something morally wrong and unnatural, at least in the cases where that is there belief, of course, some are more mild and vague. This is especially true with the religious, which is a big, big part of the issue. Religious people have a very strong emotional connection to their beliefs, it's what their families taught them, they see it in their peers, in their idols. So they feel very strongly about these beliefs. Heck, these beliefs are the Word of God, you wanna talk about conviction? So it's offensive to them, they think it's better if it's stopped. Especially since in their view they're saving your soul if they intervene. It's how they still feel good about themselves while operating ex-gay therapy, the abusive method are to save you from eternal damnation. Worth it, isn't it? Isn't it frightening how much it all makes sense to hurt people for just having a harmless relationship as soon as you introduce faith? Never underestimate the power of belief, not just with religion, but we see this with the failed ambitions of Communism, and the idea of anarchism.
     
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  8. Shattered Shields

    Shattered Shields Gratsa!

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    This to me, is a pathetic excuse. Pedophilia involves children, and children aren't consenting adults with a clear sexual identity. Pedophilic events are akin to rape, since most often the poor child involved has no real idea of sex, and will most likely not consent to whatever happens.

    And the religious, pah, you're playing devil's advocate for people who use a belief system as leeway to abuse two consenting adults for their sexual choices. The worst part about that entire sentence is the belief system bit. Religion requires faith, and faith requires the unknown. Prayers to a God we may or may not know, reciting words from a book that may or may not be holy. They use these words from a book, a single book, that says you shouldn't be a homosexual because it's bad, because God won't like it. Who says this book is the right one? Is it the Bible, the Quran, the Torah, or maybe the Pagan records. And shit, they had wacky orgies all the time, and they're wild, cruel Gods never incinerated anyone.

    If one uses their biased perspective to bring harm to another, by abusing them, throwing them out of their home, sending harassing mail, then that person is less than human. They are an animal, acting upon a set of instructions swallowed from someone else's spoon. If you want to believe these things are wrong on your own, then thats fine, I couldn't care less. In this world, the only laws I believe in are the simple ones.
    Life. Liberty. Pursuit of Happiness. Property.

    I understand what you're saying Oscar, truly I do. Everyone thinks they're perspective is the one that's right, but I will not abide with people who thinks its right to harm others in the fashion that some homophobes do. I may be wrong, I probably am, but if some sweet, sweaty, brokeback mountain lovin' is wrong, then I don't wanna be right.
     
  9. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributing Member Contributor

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    Of course. It's silly and I hate it. Frankly I despise the lack of literary integrity in religious texts, the Bible argues with itself on many of these politically relevant issues. I'm just saying, as you put it concisely, everyone thinks they're right. That's something that I find very important (complex morality is a theme in all my ideas).
    Spkeaking of complex morality; why do you say you're probably wrong? You realize there is no right morality? That's the point of complex morality, everyone has their own morality and it shouldn't be seen as easy and dichotomous. I'd say you're right by your own metric and that's the only one you need. (Plus an ever growing majority of the west agrees with you, and that's spreading to other countries)
    P.S are you actually LGBT yourself? I'm curious. :superthink:
     
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  10. Shattered Shields

    Shattered Shields Gratsa!

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    I'm wrong quite often, I probably am again. But there's something sweet about being wrong when everyone around you thinks they're right.

    I recently did a self-review, and decided I was metrosexual, not quite bisexual. So I guess I'm 25% LGBT? I dunno, I support the movement anyways.
     
  11. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributing Member Contributor

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    Um, metrosexual is a fashion statement.:meh: It's kind of associated, the LGBT movement is a big defender of male effeminacy, but it's not exactly the same. It sounds like you're kind of bi-leaning straight though? Cool.
    And again, are you really saying you think you're wrong about LGBT people being okay? It sounds a little like you're saying you are in a homophobic environment, am I correct? In which case, don't let them get at your self-esteem. They're silly, silly people, and they are dying out. It's important to think about they're point of view, and remember not to be too confident, but they don't really get that much doubt because the're are a lot of notions out there, we can't consider all of them seriously. From everything we know, there's simply no reason for it that isn't manufactured to justify their pre-existing irrationality. Don't give them credit they haven't earned. You are actually right about more things than you are wrong, at least when it comes to beliefs, because there are more possible notions than can believe in or can be real, you're right about disbelieving all of those random possible ideas.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  12. I.A. By the Barn

    I.A. By the Barn A very lost time traveller Contributor

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    I am slowly loosing my religion because of this. I was brought up to believe that God was a loving god and when I first heard that loving someone the same gender as you was not allowed I was confused. I now can no longer call myself christian. I will still say I'm religious but certainly not catholic or christian as I was christened. My gran really doesn't understand why I still haven't had my first communion and I really want to shout at her, 'I don't want to be bound to some church that preaches love but can't accept all love.' I just can't advocate what the church does. Love is love. It doesn't harm you if two men are in love, does it? I believe in a god who loves and cares for all creation equally and who is this god? One that probably doesn't even exist, because humans have got to hate something.
     
  13. CrusherBrooks

    CrusherBrooks Member Supporter

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    LGBT? LGBT? Damn it, I feel left out for being a classical near-100% straight male :(. And one that doesn't care about wearing fashion at that. It forces me to hang out with the other boring cookie-cutter kids.
    But anyway, would I take the pill to become gay? Probably not because it would fundamentally alter my identity and I don't think many people are into that. There's a reason it takes many people so much time and effort to come out and become who they truly are. Would I take a pill that makes me gay for a week? Well, no, because I have a girlfriend and I'm too loyal to her so I wouldn't see much change. I don't have to be gay to walk into a gay bar and not dance with a guy. Plus I'd be sad for possibly breaking a guy's heart when the pill wears off. Aside from those two points and probably some minor other worries, I'd take the experiment. I kind of have to, I'd be doing myself a disservice as a scientist otherwise :p. I just don't think anyone would take a permanent identity change when they (currently) prefer their own. It's just sad that the most common (heterosexual) is more or less forced upon those who would naturally choose otherwise.
    EDIT: I live in Holland. Most people here are cool with LGB. T seems more controversial and I have very little knowledge about the acceptance of transgender people. All of this is my personal opinion ^^
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
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  14. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributing Member Contributor

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    What is "knowledge about the the acceptance of trans people."? As in, you don't know about how often they are accepted? It's similar but it's the lowest. Hence why trans is involved in the whole bathrooms controversy (sooo stupid.) And then there's the really uncommon ones! :p Pansexual, demisexual, asexual, agender, genderqueer, hermaphrodites and intersex people! (Lions, tigers, and bears, oh my!) It's a fun, fun list to learn!
    [​IMG]
    Yeah, those have some issues with even being recognized, which has advantages and disadvantages.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
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  15. CrusherBrooks

    CrusherBrooks Member Supporter

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    Yes, I meant to indicate I don't know how cool people in general are with transgenders here. I would indeed expect that they are among the lowest. Though my former university hospital did open the first European clinic dedicated to transgender operations and psychological evaluation and support and things like speech training, essentially everything transgender (as long as it's medical) so from the scientific and medical community I see little to no objection. I'm currently living in relative social isolation (as in I don't mingle much with people outside my educational range and even field at the moment) so I don't know what the general opinion is of transgender people. That's all. And yes, the list goes on and on, I stuck to the big 4 though. Gotta cut off a post at some point. I'm not going to pretend I had already heard of all of them though haha.
     
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  16. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributing Member Contributor

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    If it helps, I felt the same way as a teenager. Would you like to see what changed my mind?

    _____

    This psychological essay about the differences between the Old and the New Testaments was what originally brought me back to Christianity, but most relevant to this discussion would be googling "Leviticus 18:22 mistranslated"

    The actual rule, from before the text was (badly) translated from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to English (have you ever played the Telephone/Whisper Game?), was "You shall not participate in the pagan church of Moloch's man-on-boy prostitution ritual, it is an abomination." King James was not a prophet, and his alternate Bible was not "more Biblical" than the original.

    The KJV is the most beautiful translation that I've ever seen, but there are numerous places where it is flat out incorrect. Iron pyrite: fool's gold.
     
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  17. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributing Member Contributor

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    I saw a video on that. I would argue the original wording is merely using the association with Moloch to condemn it, and also conversely condemning Moloch for it, rather than being specific. It still says man with man pretty clearly. At least, it did in the video I saw.
    Besides, what does it matter? He still created everything bad and let's it happen. And biblical literature is still full of prejudice and violence. I don't think you can call this guy nice. But I'm sure you'll keep on believing otherwise anyway. Keep on faithing o' faithful one, whatever floats your boat I guess.:meh:.
     
  18. Shattered Shields

    Shattered Shields Gratsa!

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    And why does LGBT have to be an exclusive club? What if I went to someone in the organization for advice and was rejected because I'm "not gay enough", would that be any better than being rejected out of church for being a homosexual? I think not.

    Yes and no, I'm not going to try and explain anymore. I'm wrong according to someone, somewhere, and so I'm wrong. But I'd rather be my kind of wrong than their kind of right. Does that clear it up?
     
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  19. BayView

    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    What organization are you talking about?
     
  20. matwoolf

    matwoolf Contributing Member Contributor

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    #
    ...is the way, the truth and the light if He is looking, if He is he, or They is there.
     
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  21. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

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    ....what? What organization?
     
  22. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Just about every town has at least one establishment belonging to the ancient Ordo Homosexus. They're not easy to find, but if you locate one they rank your gayness using scientific analysis (GC, mass spec, NMR, etc.; it takes a while). If you're not gay enough, they're forced to put you down to keep their location quiet.
     
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  23. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

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    Now I'm seeing the scene in Ellen with the toaster oven...
     
  24. Shattered Shields

    Shattered Shields Gratsa!

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    Is LGBT not a-

    It's not an organization?

    Fuck it, I'm not going to get anywhere with this, if you want to bitch about I offended somebody well sorry. But it's irritating for someone to refer to my sexual status as a goddamn "fashion statement" when that's caused inner turmoil in my life for years.

    Just like I said, I'm always wrong. God forbid that I stand for anything
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  25. Aidan Stern

    Aidan Stern Active Member

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    Let's use Christianity as a reference. God tells humans to love each other like brothers and sisters. We are not supposed to be judges of each others actions. We cannot say that we are more righteous and deserving than others. We all sin. There are not different types of sinners, no good or bad sinners. We're all just sinners. If sinning is the problem, it shouldn't be. First, the Bible says that Jesus died on the cross to cover all sin. Not just a select people. Second, all sin is sin. There is no big or small, better or worse. Only our human perception puts a level of wrongness to a sin. Thou shalt not steal. It doesn't matter if someone stole a $2000 TV or a dollar pack of gum. It is still stealing. So, the people who hate and condemn the LGBT community, are in the wrong. Besides, from a more logical standpoint, people should accept the LGBT Community. Hatred will not make them change or become better. Perhaps if the religious would accept them they'd actually have a reason to not rail at the concept in turn.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
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