If there were a pill to make me straight, I would not take it

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by A.M.P., Jun 9, 2015.

  1. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Unworthy in the eyes of the LORD Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes Received:
    4,253
    Location:
    Stateroom C, SS James Longstreet
    I'm all for eugenics, but I don't see sexuality or "race" as things in need of pruning. To tell the truth, I'd cut the whole tree down, dynamite the stump, and salt the earth where it grew. Lucky me, there are plenty of powerful people with the same objective, even if they don't say it out loud :)
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  2. A.M.P.

    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,049
    Likes Received:
    1,158
    Location:
    A Place with no History
  3. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    5,919
    Likes Received:
    2,479
    Location:
    Inner West Sydney, Australia
    (Removed)
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
  4. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    9,427
    Likes Received:
    6,047
    Location:
    Near Los Angeles
    Please, people, let's leave Hitler and the Nazis out of this thread, even as a joke. No good ever comes of including this kind of imagery. Mods are watching this thread, and we don't want to see it slide downhill.

    Thanks in advance!
     
    Simpson17866 and Oscar Leigh like this.
  5. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    5,919
    Likes Received:
    2,479
    Location:
    Inner West Sydney, Australia
    Fine. Whatever we need to do. :superagree:
     
  6. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    I think @Oscar Leigh was meant to send this imagery through...

    upload_2016-7-16_19-19-21.png
     
  7. Amy Brahams

    Amy Brahams New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    14
    I second to u completely.
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  8. big soft moose

    big soft moose All killer, no filler. Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,259
    Likes Received:
    5,557
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Has anyone read the Forever War ? - i'm thinking of the bit where humanity has evolved to the point where 'homolife' is the societal norm and those who are hetero are considered queer ? ...tthen later Man becomes a group mind and they know how to change sexuality according to personal prefference

    (for those that don't know the Forever War is a sci fi book based on the prinvipals of time dialation at near light speeds, so although for the soldiers only a few years pass, every time they return to earth they find that 100s or 1000s of years have changed and society is radically different )
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  9. Centauri Rose

    Centauri Rose New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2017
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    South Carolina
    I'm not gay, but I'm asexual. I've been told I'm broken and that corrective rape is what's going to fix me. I know who I am, and that's fine. If someone gave me that pill to "fix me", I'd rather die than be something I am not.
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  10. big soft moose

    big soft moose All killer, no filler. Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,259
    Likes Received:
    5,557
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Really ???

    Whoever told you that is a fucking idiot ... even assuming that lacking of interest in sex was being broken (which it isn't) you have to wonder about the mentality that thinks rape will make you more interested in sex
     
    Oscar Leigh and Simpson17866 like this.
  11. Centauri Rose

    Centauri Rose New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2017
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Thank you. This deserves an Oscar. Well said.
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  12. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,959
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Yeah, that's apparently a thing :(
     
  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose All killer, no filler. Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,259
    Likes Received:
    5,557
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    people are morons
     
    Oscar Leigh and Simpson17866 like this.
  14. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,959
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    That is my favorite part of writing SciFi/Fantasy: coming up with people who are better than we are.

    Have I shared with you the misanthropic interpretation of Maslow's Hierarchy that changed my life after I found it?
     
  15. big soft moose

    big soft moose All killer, no filler. Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,259
    Likes Received:
    5,557
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    i don't think so
     
  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose All killer, no filler. Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,259
    Likes Received:
    5,557
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    i was doing some research on 'curing homosexuality" (for my novel the darkest storm, which has a British guy going to a distopian america to rescue a gay friend from 'the camps' ) and there's some worrying shit out there
     
    Oscar Leigh and Simpson17866 like this.
  17. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Unworthy in the eyes of the LORD Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes Received:
    4,253
    Location:
    Stateroom C, SS James Longstreet
    A couple jurisdictions have flat-out banned "conversion therapy", which is encouraging.
     
    Oscar Leigh and Simpson17866 like this.
  18. big soft moose

    big soft moose All killer, no filler. Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,259
    Likes Received:
    5,557
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    I have to say I'm appalled , I went into the research thinking I'd get some ideas then make up some more reppellent practices, may be basing off the third reich, as I want "the camps" to be really harsh... but in fact it appears that some of the actual practices are harsh enough... like administering electric shocks to the genitals whilst showing homoerotic images then forcing gays to masturbate to heterosexual images... You really have to wonder..
     
    jannert, Oscar Leigh and Simpson17866 like this.
  19. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,959
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    It's ironic, considering that Maslow came up with the Hierarchy to show people how to become their best:

    Humans care primarily about Physiological needs (the four Fs of biological survival: food, fight/flight, reproduction), then about Security needs (making the world predictable: laws, schedules, organization, structures), Social needs (friends, family, popularity), Esteem needs (being an important part of the world), and finally Self-Actualization needs (art, philosophy, individuation). When a lower Need is not met, any actions taken based on higher Needs are merely means to an end: making friends for Strength In Numbers in a hostile environment rather than for its own sake.

    When I first learned the trick of characterizing non-humans by re-arranging their Hierarchies (Malmooth in my Doctor Who fanfic start with Social Needs, then Esteem, Physiology, Self-Actualization, and Security), I noticed that humanity's hierarchy was more tribalistic than some other possibilities: we fear death more than anything else (Physiological needs comes first), we gather in tightly regulated groups for strength in numbers (Security/Social needs), we care more about our own Group than about the world at large (Esteem), and we tend to see anything new – either in ourselves or in others – as a threat to the group cohesion that's keeping us alive (Self-Actualization).

    We don't see people as individuals who are important to the world (Esteem, Self-Actualization), we see them as Members of Groups (Security, Social) who either exist as tools for our own lives (Physiology) or who do not. We fear death above all else, and the existence of anything not part of Our Group is seen as the first step to a death threat. Every great atrocity in human history has boiled down to one group saying "If we don't kill Them all, then They're going to kill us!" (retroactively proving "Them" correct in having said exactly the same thing).

    I thought this was a good description of humanity at our worst, but I assumed that it was our extreme worst, not our common ill.

    Then I read someone else who found the same trick I did, but who changed some of the terminology: "Physiological needs" was shortened to "Food," Esteem needs became Contribution, Self-Actualization became whichever Need was the final, Social needs became Relationships, and our specific Self-Actualization need was renamed "Specialness" (my Malmooth Hierarchy would now be Relationships-Contribution-Food-Specialness-Security).

    He also took the tribalism further than I did, claiming that humanity was a fundamentally Lawful Evil species and that our afterlife according to the Dungeons and Dragons cosmology would be Acheron: one of the 3 "Lawful Evil" afterlives (primarily Lawful, secondarily Evil).

    I thought this guy was taking it too far, but then I started thinking about the Stanford Prison experiment, Milgram obedience, Asch conformity, the Bystander effect, the Monkey Sphere... and have decided that he was right: humanity is not – as I'd thought – a basically True Neutral species with a few more Lawful Evil people than Chaotic Evil, but rather a basically Lawful Evil species that occasionally produces Chaotic and/or Good people.
     
  20. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    11,810
    Likes Received:
    8,458
    OK, I'm curious.

    (Crossposted.)
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  21. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,959
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Good timing :D
     
  22. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    5,919
    Likes Received:
    2,479
    Location:
    Inner West Sydney, Australia
    Conversion theraly isn't really a straight pill, which is what makes it so stupid and twisted. It's mentally and sometimes physically abusing you until you pretend to be straight, often convincing the person they are cured via their brain wanting to believe it so they can be free of the pain. It's truly insane.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  23. big soft moose

    big soft moose All killer, no filler. Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,259
    Likes Received:
    5,557
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    I also found a reference (in nigeria i think) of forcing gay lovers to fight to the death in order that they should be washed clean of their sin in the holy blood of redemption... I just... no, words fail me

    If i put that in the book the average reader will think i'm going far too far
     
    Iain Aschendale and Oscar Leigh like this.
  24. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    5,919
    Likes Received:
    2,479
    Location:
    Inner West Sydney, Australia
  25. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Unworthy in the eyes of the LORD Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes Received:
    4,253
    Location:
    Stateroom C, SS James Longstreet
    I wasn't trying to imply that it was, or that it worked, just telling Moose that it was finally getting addressed legally.

    Although I've just remembered that the first I ever heard of it was in The Naked Lunch. Burroughs had the conversions going the other direction though.

    Or was it Gravity's Rainbow?

    Shoot...
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.

Share This Page