innovation, utopia - setting

Hey wait a second there pal that isn't irony it's just coincidence.

 

I both agree and disagree with your overarching point about perfection. However, in the particular instance of utopia, it cannot be if the opposing person is part of it, because that would mean that there is dissent within the utopia, which in turn disqualifies from the being a utopia.

I would even go as far as to say, that there cannot be any person that is not part of utopia for a utopia to be so. My logic being, if your surrounding world is perfect, then the knowledge that some distance away, people do not live in absolute bliss, but are instead burdened by the worries of life, would ruin your day. Not to mention, that those peoples' very existence would be worrying the utopians, because the outsiders would likely jealous, and we know what jealousy leads to... So in that way, it would not be a true utopia. Now, you could say, what if the inhabitants of the utopia live in bliss, because they're unaware of any jealous outsiders? That would make it a dystopia. Same, if the utopians did know, but were in some way desensitised.

How so? We might've had different ideas in mind. Or I was wrong?

 

But it's only a perceived problem with the person. I guess it truly depends on if you believe that Utopia needs to totally adhere to the specific desires and wants of everyone even if they're in the realm of "I want to do something that puts me or others at risk, but I also want there to be consequences- if I can skydive and hit the ground and explode but have my body reform and be fine, then it's no fun because there's no danger". Utopia may not be subjectively perfect for someone but it's still objectively perfect in the sense it wouldn't have all the trials and pain of our world.

Okay so 'irony' is actually a pretty specific kind of thing that a lot of people misunderstand- often times they confuse true irony with things that are merely coincidences or misfortunes. A classic example of all of this is the song Ironic by Alanis Morissette, where the entire song's lyrics are about things that are ironic- though, ironically, none of the ironies in the song are actual ironies (which was unintended by the writer of the song, of course).

Taking an example from that song, it isn't ironic that rain fell on your wedding day. That's just a coincidence. It's also not ironic to be talking about perfection from a broken iPhone. That's just another coincidence.

What would make both of these examples actual irony would be if, rather;

Instead of it raining on your wedding day, irony would be if the you finally won your love interest's hand in marriage... but only after she was diagnosed with a deadly disease. That's some tragic irony, because it's more than just a wedding day getting ruined- it's that you've finally fulfilled your passionate goal of marrying your beloved, but she's going to FUCKING DIE and you basically have her but don't get to have her. See the deeper irony there?

So instead of just typing about Utopia from a broken iPhone, irony would be like if you had an indestructible iPhone that survived everything without a scratch on it; you drop it, kick it, step on it, fart on it, etc and yet it never gets scratched or broken- until you're typing about perfection on the internet and suddenly the screen cracks. That's more like random irony, but you can probably understand how there's a deeper layer of irony to that example.

Basically, irony needs a more poetic context to work. If it's just a funny coincidence, then it ain't irony. Irony can be coincidental, but coincidences aren't always ironic.

 

My answer to this is the one that this is answering to. If you have any wants that are not provided for, or not allowed in the utopia, or you have opinions that are contrary, or even just not the same as the norm, then you yourself represent either the rebelled or the oppressed. Whether you act, or only think, if you're not perfectly happy and in tune with the utopia, then the utopia is not true or not complete. It's because a utopia the combination of all of its inhabitants, the society, and to be perfect it has to be 100%, not 99,99%. Even if you have subjective delusions about being oppressed, so long as you're not perfectly happy, the society is not perfectly happy.

I think you describe irony as a writing technique, which it could be, but it also has applications beyond writing. Does it not? Still, what you describe, that's pretty much what I had in mind. I've dropped this phone many times without consequence, but only days ago, it slipped out of my hand and a web of cracks spread over the entire screen. Besides, I think that phones, especially iPhones and Apple relate to perfection and utopianism. But that's a subject for another time.

 

I noticed you have a flawed

Look this is clearly not going anywhere! Is there is one ounce of dissension then the society is no longer perfect the US is no longer Utopia. And the state or whoever's in charge love to deal with that dissension thus proving they are a dystopia. And there are many other factors to that we haven't gone over so many personalities, ideas,theorize, perceptions of life that are Utopia is not only fantasy but it is also a dystopia for it forces A1 worldview a one way of looking at things because any, dissension is looked upon as a cancer to the Utopia and must be dealt with or the Utopia falls apart.

And since you're not willing to listen we're just going to have to agree to disagree cuz this is not going anywhere.

 

I get what you're saying, but Utopia is still objectively free of the true problems of life. It's a you problem, not a society problem. There's actually some level of irony in being the kind of guy who is unhappy with Utopia, but you're still living in an objective Utopia.

Irony is irony whether it's a writing technique or not. Irony isn't exclusive to writing or anything, it holds the same meaning anywhere you apply it.

As for dropping your phone a bunch of times but only just now having it break, that isn't irony by itself. Like my example explained, you need a deeper level of meaning to it breaking than that. Imagine a big, Herculean man who beats up monsters with his bare hands and survives all kinds of catastrophes and is considered completely unstoppable until finally dying because he tripped and broke his neck. That's irony. A guy who trips and falls a bunch but then one day trips and breaks his neck isn't irony. See the deeper context between the two examples?

 

And another thing if life has no flaws, no challenges, no wants or needs, or no point in even existing then it's not a life it's just being.

The closest thing we have to a Utopia is an ant colony with structure of a hive mind or no one has independent thought, fun is what the state tells you is fun, having this is what the state tells you is happiness. That is a Utopia

 

Well the Utopia is still an objective Utopia. I've explained this, but now you add another element to it by saying that whoever is in charge of the Utopia will "deal with" the dissension. In this case, then it wouldn't be a Utopia because you're not free to be unhappy without some kind of controlling Big Brother coming in to 'deal' with you. Assuming that a Utopia is free from a sinister government that forces its ideals on the people, then you still have a Utopia.

The passive aggressiveness is not only really douchey but also pretty groan-inducing considering you're not even really correct about what you're saying (or rather, we simply disagree on how important subjective perception is to a Utopia) despite trying to belittle me for 'not listening' to your wisdomz.

Again this is just a subjective interpretation. I could easily tell you that if I had no needs, flaws or challenges that I'd be able to live very happily and simply enjoy my life. Your interpretation is at ends with what you'd consider to be the shallowness of a Utopia. But the Utopia is still a Utopia.