Is My Country Too Perfect?

Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by EstherMayRose, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    thinking about the alliance - if they were founded by a knight, that knight must have had a liege lord (an authority, generally a duke or an earl to which he swore allegiance), that lord would in turn pledge fealty to a king if the knight who founded them was a liege of the king of france they could have been granted French protection (although there's an issue in that the french royal family changed several times)

    Alternately if the knight was sworn to the order of the knights Templar, or the knights Hospitaler etc the country could have been granted the protection of his order... which would explain why they are not invaded, as even kings were cautious of messing with the Orders.


    There is also a slight flaw in your naming logic because although chevalier is French for knight, it derives from the more literal translation 'horseman', so you have indeed named your country horseland. also in the 11th century Knights spoke Latin and the Latin for Knight is either Eques or Miles depending on the usage - the latin for a mounted soldier (not a noble knight) was 'caballus' from which chevalier was derived, but not until a couple of hundred years later than your countries origin
     
  2. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

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    5/ Well, the ladies will need something to do while all the young men are away at war...
    8/ Where does Henrietta go riding? Unless it's round and round the garden, she's likely to come across some revolting peasants at some point, feel sorry for them, ask her escort - who can be supportive of whichever side (landowner or evicted tenant) plays better.

    8a/ I love sources being cited!
     
  3. QualityPen

    QualityPen Member

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    I'm not questioning your French knowledge (I know little of it), but as Big Soft Moose pointed out, and I alluded, there is a history behind that word.

    The French word for hose, cheval, was modified with -ier to mean horseman. Since Europe's cavalry tended to be knights or men-at-arms, horseman began to refer specifically to knights and the meaning changed.
    In the same way, chivalry comes from chevalerie and originally referred to horsemanship and only later came to describe knightly code of conduct. But the meaning of cheval still means horse, wherein lies the problem.

    Chevalia | Horse-land
    Chevalieria | Knight-land
    Chevaleria | Knighthood-land (?)

    By basing the name on chevalier, but cutting off the -ier ending that changes the meaning from horse to knight, you are creating an ambiguity in the meaning because the name now appears to align closer with the French word for horse, with the -ia ending to denote land/country following it. So the question is whether the reader's mind will jump to knight (as you intend) or horse (as mine did) when reading it. I suppose it doesn't matter, especially since you are going to explain the source for Chevalia's name, but I was just curious if you had considered that readers may perceive the name differently than how you intend for it to be perceived.

    Big Soft Moose also points out the naming period inconsistency, which may be worth some thought. Maybe your country was renamed to Chevalia from an older Latin based named?

    Hmm, maybe I misunderstood your earlier post about religious tolerance in Chevalia. I made the mistake of assuming you meant it was all sunshine and rainbows while the rest of Europe was tearing itself apart in wars of religion. You've given this some thought, and I think the situation you are describing in this quote does make sense. Besides that, the Protestant-Catholic wars were starting to simmer down by the time period of your setting, so I can imagine a 1730's society in which there is a tacit acceptance for practical reasons.
     
  4. raine_d

    raine_d Active Member

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    I'm having a bit of trouble with this tiny country's source - for 600 years - of enough wealth to build the sort of beautiful palace and lifestyle, and support the sort of nobility you're talking about. Mineral or natural wealth does attract invading countries or roving mercenary armies; the idea of importing silk and exporting is as embroidered isn't going to go THAT far even if the major countries would have their own centres of luxury good production (which they did, and probably far more modern, sophisticated and fashionable). And both of these - plus most other sort of early-modern-period wealth that come to mind - involve large numbers of the common folk slaving at perfectly filthy and horrible jobs. That would definitely be a source of the imperfection you are looking for (as in every other country for vast swathes of history, Chevalia's rich live by living off the lower orders).

    But it's way more believable that the country would be essentially - by the standards of the day - poor and comparitively rustic. Henrietta need not realise this of course, as the life you've laid out does mean she and her family would probably be comparitively rustic too. Which actually isn't a bad idea, as most of the royal family/nobility/certinly the hoi polloi wouldn't know any better.

    Just my two coppers worth...
     
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  5. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    You should look into Liechtenstein. A very small, but fairly affluent, landlocked country in it Alps. Chevalia could have survived as a wealthy(ish) nation by being either a principality of or by paying homage to The Holy Roman Empire. Putting it in highly defensible area (like Switzerland) and giving it a populace known for being strong fighters (which I'll assume they are considering the country is named after knights) and a peacefully inclined emperor would likely prefer to ally themselves with a small country rather than risk high casualties invading. Not only would this alliance put a damper on invasions by other countries, but it could prove to be very beneficial for trade as well.
     
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  6. EstherMayRose

    EstherMayRose Gay Souffle Contributor

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    Right. I've done a lot more thinking and have some more answers.

    Chevalia is now Caballia. Solves the horse issue and the French issue.

    I like the thought - I've forgotten who suggested it - of men going off to fight in French wars and bringing home great riches (which then of course get taxed). Thanks for that.

    Contrary to other countries, Caballia only have one palace. This means that everyone in the Royal Family - aunts, cousins, grandparents - have to share it. I'm imagining it as small but beautiful, which means that Henrietta loves her apartments even though she has to share them with her sisters. Perhaps one of her French friends could comment on this.

    That's all I have so far. Thanks all of you.
     
  7. EstherMayRose

    EstherMayRose Gay Souffle Contributor

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    Just another quick update, I've found a way I can work in the politics of the whole thing.

    It's a murder mystery, and Henrietta is trying to find out who killed a French diplomat's wife, while a lot of evidence points to the Caballian Dauphin. This means that they will lose their alliance with France, which not only leaves them exposed to hostile military action from other countries, but France is also likely to mount some kind of attack themselves. Have someone mention this to Henrietta, and there we go.

    There was something else I wanted to say, but now I can't for the life of me remember what it was. Oh, yes - if someone marries a woman of the Babineaux-Vauquelin line (possibly only one closely related to the king) then he has to change his name as a condition of the marriage. That would help preserve the line. (And of course in earlier centuries, if the throne passed to a daughter then he would do the ruling for her.)
     
  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    You can of course make this the rule in your world, but I don't think it's "of course". I would expect them to continue searching down the family line for a male heir, rather than giving the throne to the spouse of the female heir.
     
  9. EstherMayRose

    EstherMayRose Gay Souffle Contributor

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    I rather meant that if she was the only person left, they would have the spouse do the ruling. Bad wording on my part.
     
  10. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

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    If you Google "Line of Succession UK", you can see that 56th in line for the throne is a young (17) lady named Zenouska Mowatt; she is the Great-great-granddaughter of George V (she has an younger brother who precedes her in succession - so he's really the person I'm referring to as "next male heir"...I just love her name! So very English!). So, if Charles, and Harry, and William, and baby George and...and...and...(bear in mind that George Zenouska's great-grandfather was the fourth of George's sons...apart from George VI, the Windsors seem to be quite fertile, and apt to produce heirs) died, we'd go back to the last remaining male who could trace his lineage back to George V.

    I'd suggest that, if you want the foreigner marrying in to a/ take the name, and b/ rule, you make this a law of Caballia.

    Bear in mind that Mary I (Bloody Mary) married the King of Spain; he remained King of Spain, and Mary remained Queen of England.
     
  11. Pharthan

    Pharthan Active Member

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    To avoid getting invaded all the time, the absolute best way is to go the route of Switzerland. Others have mentioned it, but I'll go a little more in depth:

    1. Castles, guarded roads, and easy ways to make roads inaccessible. If you cut off an army from it's food supply, it can't fight, and the best way to scare an enemy to keep them from invading you is the promise that if they do, they won't have easy access to food. Doesn't matter if you outnumber your enemy 100:1 if they have all the food and you have none.
    2. Have access to resources that others want - but not too much. This has been mentioned in "gold" before. Instead, have some great skill (which has also been mentioned) in addition to a lesser-needed resource that tie together hand-in-hand (i.e. great blacksmiths with secret blacksmithing techiniques) that make their goods inherently more valuable. Also, if you're going mid-to-late 18th century, you could just have a lot of coal or oil. Industrial Revolution kicked off in ~1760.
    3. Have skilled merchants and bankers. The more gold that changes hands through your nation, the better.
    Another thing I was brainstorming: find wines and cheeses local to the area. Make your own variants for the story similar, but unique.

    Pros and Cons for your nation:
    A quick search on Google Maps shows that the region is very mountainous. This makes it easily defensible, but also means you rely on trade for a good amount of food, as there doesn't appear to be a great deal of arrable land.
    You'd be dealing with the Italian Kingdoms. Could go either way depending on how you play it.
    France is a bit busy with a lot of wars in the 18th century, meaning they won't worry about your nation but if your nation is skilled at making, say, really great cannons, rifles, has good trees for shipbuilding... you can capitalize on war-time economy France.
     
  12. Killer7

    Killer7 New Member

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    I have some odd ideas for how to add flaws to this kingdom, but they're very much less about history and much more.... well, fantastical.
     

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