It can also just be an example of a conversation amongst people with a common interest on a topic and there are no right and wrong answers.
Many, if not most, of the outliners I know are like me and give up on the outline part-way through the book. Some seem to stick rigidly to it, but they're mostly experienced romance writers who are putting out a book every few weeks and know exactly what their audience want.
Yeah, ultimately I'd say every writer should try both approaches and see which works best for them. Or, at least, what degree of pre-planning works best for them. Being stuck at the wrong end of the pantser/outliner spectrum for your personality can be real bad news.
My thoughts exactly. I think it's a spectrum. From the person that just jumps in to the writer with a bad case of OCD. I find it hard to believe though, that someone just wakes up and says, "I think I'll write a short story today". Before they write the first word they have SOME idea of where they are going.
No, I had no idea how Robo-Zombie would end when I started it. I just knew I needed a finished story by the end of Sunday to hit the submission date, and had an idea of how it would start. In fact, I think King said he just starts with a great opening and sees where it goes from there. I have a strong suspicion that Cussler does too ('what if I had a WWI biplane attacking a US military base in 1980?'), but I've never read any interviews with him. Though I believe King also said that he basically treats his first draft as a very detailed outline and then fixes everything in the second draft?
Which is how I started the conversation. When you get to the re-writing, all writers are the same. They just began differently. And, while they don't know it, I bet all pantsers have an outline in their head.
Not really. Different writers revise differently, too. There's 'don't even reuse any pages from the previous draft, but start again from scratch.' I believe Tolkein did that, or said he did. There's 'rewrite and rewrite and rewrite until, after thirty-seven drafts I have the finished book'. There's 'rewrite as you go and the second draft is just for typos and final cleanup.' And there's Lionel Fanthorpe's 'I dictate it from start to finish and never rewrite' (though I'd guess he did occasionally decide to scrap something he'd dictated, and recorded over it). For that matter, Heinlein said something like 'never rewrite unless an editor tells you to.' Most of the writers who started in the pulp era were the same way; they had to produce a publishable first draft or they'd starve. And Harlan Ellison used to write short stories on a typewriter in a bookstore window and stick the pages on the window for customers to read as soon as they were done.
One of the main characters in Hellhounds spent about half of the book naked. I didn't expect her to do the same in the sequel, but somehow she ended up that way. Guess it's just the way she is...
Why? You didn't answer my question--is it equally impossible to start an outline without knowing the end? Does the end always come in an instantaneous flash of inspiration that happens before any other planning or work whatsoever? If not, then why is writing the thing that can't possibly start without knowing the end, while outlining, mulling, planning, etc. can? My novel is closing in on the ending. When I started writing it, all I had was a girl that was following a man. Didn't know who either of them were. Didn't know why she was following him. I knew she was a local in the setting and he was a foreigner. I knew the setting was near the sea. I knew she had red hair. That's just about all. It's totally possible to see a picture and start writing without the faintest, faintest idea where it's going to end up.
Your opinion is wrong which I usually wouldn't say about someone's opinion, but your opinion is that people can't do something that writers do all the time. I don't understand the point of saying something just can't be possible when it completely is. You come across as both arrogant and uniformed on this and maybe other aspects of writing. Calling out a segment of writers, saying they must be basically lying because you can't do what they do is not cool or a good way to make friends. Oh, yes, of course. I think this is a clear case of someone not being able to do something so therefore no one can do it. Kind of bullshit if you ask me. That's exactly what I do almost every day. It's how I work. No idea where I'm going. I don't even know the next word. I sort of write on autopilot it feels like sometimes. But that's the way I work. Your opinion would then make me a liar. I have no reason to lie about something like this. So, that would go back to the FACT that your opinion is wrong and you are misinformed. I'm no exception. Plenty of writers do it the same way I do. I write full time and have been working this way ever since I started.
Yes, I think in particular a lot of short story writers start this way. I almost always start with some vision of an opening scene. If it appeals to me, I'll sit down and start typing and see where it goes from there. I don't think I'm that unusual, either.
So I like to consider myself more on the 'panster' end of the spectrum, but I do have an outline. A very basic one. An outline to me is most helpful as a sort of 'road map'. I have landmarks that I can work towards for when I get stuck, there's still room for deviation (plenty of it) but having a 'okay now this is buildup to this' sort of thing works for me.
So let me guess your first word when you start to type "even though you have no idea where you are going".... THE "The" the best muse ever.
