Is this incest?

Discussion in 'Research' started by disasterspark, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    This is easier than y'all are making it. Technically speaking, incest involves blood relations. You can't be blood related to a manufactured device. So is it technically incest? No.

    However, an intimate relationship with a close relation, blood or not, is generally considered incestuous and taboo, and in many times and places illegal. With blood, step, adopted or artificial intelligence, societal consensus will be that familial ties forbid romantic or sexual interaction by social taboo, DNA be damned.

    Even in looser, more permissive societies, cousins have almost always been about as close as is ever acceptable.

    These are generalities. Obviously there are exceptions, but them's the breaks. That's how it is. A story about a man in an artificial body banging his brother is a story of incest.

    I still think it's worth exploring though.
     
  2. Rzero

    Rzero Reluctant voice of his generation Contributor

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    There was a huge trial over whether or not he molested one of the other kids. The Soon-Yi thing was a big part of the trial and surrounding circus.
     
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  3. Reece

    Reece Senior Member

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    True, but Mia adopted her in 1978 and started dating Woody in 1979 :S It's just gross.
     
  4. pullatapuss

    pullatapuss Banned

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    Robert Heinlein wrote SF that included incest, including intentional line breeding (as is done with livestock) for certain traits. This was back in the 1970s. One of those works was nominated for both the Hugo and Nebula awards.
     
  5. disasterspark

    disasterspark Active Member

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    Both of the characters are male, fugitives, and brothers.

    Brother 1 is in his mid 20's (23-25) while Brother 2 is in his late teens (17 - 19).

    Generally it goes like this.

    - There is a misandric army that unleashes a gas attack that (seemingly) kills Brother 1, along with nearly every man in a city. For a while, it seems like Brother 1 is actually dead. Brother 2 survives.

    - But Brother 1 actually survived, and it's almost like a resurrection. But at a cost, Brother 1 is now a slightly younger woman. And has to get used to her new body. From here, she is known a Sister.

    - Brother 2 and Sister eventually reunite. With Brother 2 quickly forming a crush on Sister.

    - This is where things get problematic. I asked my mom (who is a girl) if a mid 20's guy was magically (or advanced scientifically if that's a word) transformed into a lady, how long would it take for him, or her, to get used to the new body? She said 3 months. But that could eat up way too much of the story for me. 3 months is a lot for a story that spans 1 - 2 years. And I also don't want to make some sort of "montage" or a quirky "not like other girls" thing. But making a girl character solely for Brother 2 to bust his seed inside every now and then doesn't help either.

    - Eventually Sister gets her old body back and goes back to Brother 1. Brother 2 eventually decides that though relationships and sex feel good, they are not worth actively chasing after, he's perfectly happy with staying single forever if that's what it's gonna be.

    What are some of the consequences for having an incestuous relationship like this? Even though they are both fugitives, the relationship is consensual. Would things change once Sister goes back to Brother 1? How long would it really take for a guy to get used to being a girl all the sudden, if he's not trans?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2019
  6. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I don't think there's any authoritative number possible for how long it would take someone to get used to being a different gender, but three months seems like a pretty short time period, to me. I'd be more inclined to think "never".

    And I'm confused about the incest. Do you have a sibling? Is the only reason you don't have sex with your sibling just that you're the same gender? If you were different genders, you'd go at it? Really? And has the gender-changed sibling always been gay, or has his/her orientation changed along with his/her body?
     
  7. disasterspark

    disasterspark Active Member

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    I do have a sibling but I grew up as the only child in the house. They were already an adult when I was born. So to tell you the truth, I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to sibling relationships.

    The thing is, in this scenario, Brother 2 can't help but feel attracted because Brother 1 is now a hot woman. And since they are fugitives, they can't go out and find a regular relationship like the rest of us.

    As for sexual orientation: Brother 2 is assumed to be straight, while it can be hinted that Brother 1 is bi.
     
  8. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    @disasterspark - Iain M Banks, who wrote the Culture novels, had this gender swapping thing happening within his 'world.' Within the Culture, people replaced their bodies quite regularly, not only when they got old, but also whenever they felt like a change. And changing genders was common. You might want to read some of his stuff and see how he deals with the issue. (I seem to recall that he does deal with it to some extent ...how it feels to change, etc.)

    Of course nobody alive actually knows what it would be like to change genders 'all of a sudden' without being trans ...so I think you'll need to do what Iain Banks did, and just use your imagination. What do you think it would feel like? Figure it out, and write it in. Nobody is going to argue with you! :)
     
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  9. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    But do you think that siblings of really attractive people want to have sex with their siblings? And do you think that the really attractive people want to have sex with their siblings? I'm not saying that incest never, ever happens, but... I feel like you're treating it as something that would automatically happen, rather than something that might happen if both people involved were really, really, REALLY messed up.
     
  10. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    You have to be messed up to commit incest. I wouldn't relate to an incestuous character. Just because they're fugitives doesn't mean they're any less liable, and I don't view it as a legitimate excuse.
     
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  11. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    I got 2 characters, neither of which does anyone relate to.
    Frank- The Hellbound Heart/Hellraiser (wants to have sex with his niece Kristy/Kirsty on some level).
    Creepy Doctor Guy- A Cure for Wellness (small Spoiler) He wants to have a pure blood child with his daughter).

    I think I rest my case that sanity is not a factor when it comes to incest. Takes a special whacko to wanna
    sleep with blood, and/or think it is normal. :bigeek:
     
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  12. disasterspark

    disasterspark Active Member

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    Not automatically. I feel like they'd have to be REALLY REALLY attracted to each other. And that rarely ever happens nowadays because we know about all the fucked up shit that could happen, especially if a pregnancy happens. Ouch.

    And this isn't Game of Thrones.
     
  13. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    I think there's something on a deeper level than just the fear of medical or genetic implications that keeps humans from committing incest. At least, I hope so.
     
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  14. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Yeah...

    My brothers are both adopted. There are no genetic implications, and yet... yuck. Disgusting. They're my BROTHERS. No way.
     
  15. Merley

    Merley Member

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    Bodily, no. Mentally, if the android still believes he is the man who's brother it is, and the transition from a living male body to a android female body doesn't fuff up his mental state, having him switch into a totally almost different person, yes. If he is still himself in his mind, yes. If he is not, and his mental state gets all racked up into one hot mess to where he thinks he is not himself, I wouldn't really anymore. But just because it's incest doesn't mean you shouldn't write it. Game of Thrones thrived off of a brother/sister romantic/sexual relationship.
     
  16. disasterspark

    disasterspark Active Member

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    It's actually a fact that you don't have any sexual attraction towards people you grew up with in your early formative years.
     
  17. Ma'am

    Ma'am Banned

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    There are plenty of people out there who actually do like incest, though. I have known of a few, even though it's reeaally not the kind of thing I'd expect most people to share. Also, there generally aren't laws against things nobody wants to do anyway. There are many laws against incest but none (that I know of) against putting your hand on a hot stove, for example.
     
  18. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    While not laws, there is a collective concept for those 'winners' called The Darwin Awards. :D
     
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