Knife vs. Sword

Discussion in 'Research' started by TyrannusRex, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    in the case off gladius vs long sword the man with the gladius stands a much better chance if he has a sheild as well or something else to parry with. a long sword is a heavy thing to swing and the gladius bearer as an opportunity between swings if he's fast - especially if he uses the point of his sword rather than swinging it
     
  2. S A Lee

    S A Lee Contributor Contributor

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    There's a very tricky balance that needs to be considered here.

    All bladed weapons have, for want of a better phrase, a sweet spot, a range that they are deadliest, too far and they don't reach, too close and they are clumsy. This means that in order to take advantage of this, the younger character needs to reach his ideal point range-wise.

    However, he has to pass his opponent's, so unless we're talking a surprise attack here, he's in for a hard time, especially since his opponent is intimately familiar with the style of combat in which he's trained.
     
  3. Stormburn

    Stormburn Contributor Contributor

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    This is really late, but I'm new here. I believe you are describing someone fighting with a long knife. Those are a little different from the combat knives we see today. Often times, someone fighting with a long knife would use a small shield, like a buckler, or even a smaller shield such as a fist/punch shield. I've also seen examples of duelists using a parrying blade or even a coat or cape. All have interesting uses that could balance out the fight against a man with a long sword.
    Bernard Cornwell writes historical fiction such as the Sharpe series of novels. He does an excellent job of turning historical facts into entertainment.
    Godspeed!
     
  4. QualityPen

    QualityPen Member

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    What is your definition of long knife? Even an 18" blade would not be nearly long enough, much less the 7-9" of a combat blade.

    I've sparred with different length blades and have found that for a person of average height, around 24" is the shortest blade that could possibly defend the legs against a longsword. The buckler (and most shields) cannot protect the legs either... The buckler was designed to offer the ability to parry and strike and to act as protection for the sword arm. Parries against blows coming low still had to be done with a sword, and around 27" is when a sword can start offering decent parrying capability for me (I'm 5'8").

    So a buckler may improve the ability to parry high blows, but do nothing to help against attacks aimed at the legs, which was the major problem in the first place.

    I don't see a cloak or cape being of much use against a lonsword, besides as a distraction. They are useful against rapiers, spadroons, especially against smallswords... But a properly sharpened longsword can slice a man in half with a full blow. It would make short work of a cape being used as a makeshift shield.
     
  5. Stormburn

    Stormburn Contributor Contributor

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    Definition of a long knife? I'm thinking single edge, roughly a meter. Very different from a modern combat knife. Also, if this is an 'out of time' story about someone from the modern age, that could be a sticker too. The West has lost a lot of its MA knowledge, and to have a modern trained and conditioned combatant against a..lets say...medieval combatant who has had a life time of experience and conditioning...that would not be fun.
    I've often thought that the typical 'zombie apocalypse' scenario would be a walk in the park for a medieval army.
     
  6. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

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    There's also that canard about being old you tire more easily...
    ...It's just not true, not if you're active. In fact, most athletes (Mo Farrah for a current example) move to LONGER distances as they get older; what they've lost in youthful spring and speed they've gained with a lifetime of conditioning training. The current attitude of older = less-fit is based upon a society where older = no longer running around and playing, but instead sitting behind a desk and over-eating.
     
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  7. QualityPen

    QualityPen Member

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    Heh, that's not a knife, that's a short 39" long sword with one edge. Messers (only 30") were sometimes called "long knives," but there is nothing knife-like about them. They are swords. There's no clear distinction when a knife becomes a sword, but I think most people agree that anything over 18" is a short sword. The gladius's sword blade ranges from 18" to about 24".

    I think the OP and replies in the discussion make it clear that the weapon being discussed is an actual knife, approaching the size limit for knives, at that 12-18" gray area.

    Of course if the younger character had a long messer, he could fight at a moderate disadvantage (the older man is still more skilled and has a better weapon) instead of being completely outmatched.
     
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  8. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

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    As I recall, messers were only classed as knives due to their hilt construction. I doubt OP had that blade length in mind when this thread was posted.
     
  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    'sword' is also a massive category ... covering everything from rapiers to broadswords... Personally i'd take my chances with a K-Bar against a man with a rapier, but i'd fancy it much less against a cutlass
     

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