Lack of "strong" female characters?

I like Terry Pratchett even more now. Yes, statistical averages are a very poor way to get an idea of the capabilities and behavior of an individual.

After I found this thread, I started thinking about the first time I became aware of this trend. I realized that, when I first begin forming a story in my head, the main character was always male. At the time, I had two stories in the very first stages of getting put on paper, and the main characters for both were male. I changed them to females, to see how it felt. The stories are finished now and they ended up differently than they would have, of course, but I came to love Annie and Ruth and I cannot imagine their stories unfolding with a man in their places.

I wondered if anyone else found that they almost automatically make their protagonists all the same sex, and if they have ever changed the sex of a leading character after they had already begun to plan their story out or even already started to write it.

 

Writing romance I tend to have the two MCs POVs shown in a fairly balanced way, which means I'm thinking like a man one minute and a woman the next. This still doesn't stop nearly everyone who reads my work thinking that I'm a man LOL (I'm not, but I'm not very good at sentimental stuff).

 

My characters are whatever they pop out as - but usually male. I do have three female MCs though (Queen Beatrice is getting her own story next, her Grandaughter is also getting one and I have Iris). My younger two female protagonists are sexy, quirky, fun, intelligent - I write my women like I write my men they are people I find attractive.

My MCs for my fantasy are currently male. I have never considered switching the perspective from male to female - however I have told my first book from a different POV than I started out with.

My MCs are right now:
Seventeen year old boy
Two gay men in their thirties
A one-hundred-and-forty-nine year old gay male.
Nineteen year old girl
Fourteen year old girl and fifteen year old boy
Mad middle aged vicar and sea captain (set in 1700s)
Middle aged man married with four children
Two gay police officers
An older couple (one male and one female).
Fire extinguisher and Bankers Lamp (both male).

 

In my own writing, the female characters are the ones I enjoy writing the most. With male characters I often have to inhibit their thoughts and emotions a little -- not making them all stoics, but being aware of keeping them "male". My female characters can be themselves much more, and they seem much more alive and whole than the males, even though they're far from being the same "type" of women.

I've never been a macho type, and always thought the concept was a joke, but still I'm aware that male readers might think my male characters are wimps, or not rational or goal oriented enough. So I force a little bit of extra testosterone and discipline into them. Why is this happening? I guess I'm as much a victim of the macho-hero propaganda of fiction as women might feel victims of the T&A movement.

 

I think you may enjoy "The Girl Who Played With Fire" if you want a contemopry work featuring a strong female protagonist.

Also any historically based stories of queens like Cleopatra, Queen Elizabeth 1, Queen Mary of Scotts etc. Would provide some excellent examples of strong female leads.

Also Margret Atwood has some awe inspiring mc's in her works. Try "The Handmaiden's Tale" on for some strong female characters. It is especially rare to find female mc's in distopic tales like Handmaiden.

 

I used pregnancy as an example because it was the one thrown at me. I also recalled a Socrates dialogue on the nature of love (The Symposium) and he used pregnancy as an example in one of his points, and it was so spectacularly obvious that it was from a man's perspective that it was laughable. Don't take my post using pregnancy as an example and assume that it's the only or even the defining difference between the sexes, nor as what defines my thoughts on gender difference. Yell at the one who I was responding to for immaturity

Women also identify with familiar bonds differently and their relationships with their friends. I grew up with two sisters, and while I know how a woman might act in a given situation, I cannot know what she is thinking.

My reluctance primarily comes from failed relationships. I've had some relationships implode because I had no idea what she was thinking about this or that or the other. I don't feel confident enough to write from a female character's POV in a way that's believable to the reader because my track record with women is bad. I know that's not a good thing, but it's my limitation and I don't feel comfortable trying to stretch myself beyond my limits.

 

Ever talked with a gay man about his failed relationships.? He would say pretty much the same thing, even if he is the same sex as his partner.

 

Second thoughts

 

Getting into this discussion late,

But I think with women in combat zones, people will see that women can be a do-er, rather then an object to be rescued. That they are not limited to
the sweet innocent princess or the evil ugly witch. Not limited to Charlie's angels or Amazon women that have trouble finding enough cloth to cover the tribe's members.

I think writing will evolve, and women's roles will improve.

 

I can certainly understand jimboa26's reluctance to write female characters. It's not obvious HOW different men and women are, and therefore it's hard to tell when you understand the opposite gender well enough. You could be pretty close or a mile off without knowing it.

I used to feel the same way before my characters started to get a life of their own and I became confident with characterisation. Now I assume that most of the differences between men and women come from the situations they are in, not from inherent differences. E.g, if you made a man pregnant, I think he would think and feel roughly the same way as a pregnant woman.

 

Actually, I often enjoy creating female characters more than male ones, and perhaps your point about observation is correct. I think the definition of "strong" might be somewhat different for a male character than a female one. Then again, I consider Atticus Finch to be one of the strongest male characters I've read, and yet he was not in any way a "warrior" (interesting, though, that Atticus was created by a woman).

I've mentioned before that I greatly admired the writing of James Michener, and he created some very strong female characters: Nellie Forbush, Clay Basket, Mattie Quimper and Yvonne Marmelle/Shirley Marmelstein, to name a few.

 

This may also go someway to explaining things lol when I write I write men I find strong amazing and attractive. I even write men that yes I could objectify a little - their trousers are form fitting in just the right places at least in my head

Writing is one of the few careers (oddly my previous one archaeology is another) where women have had a reasonable level of equality with men (not ideal but more than many others) over a much longer period of time than say medicine etc The first 'novel' in English was written by a woman. There have always been a reasonable proportion of female authors and I wouldn't be surprised in 2011 if there weren't more women than men.

I enjoy writing men that I am attracted to - it's why I like writing gay men as well it's much easier to write a romantic scene when i find both partners attractive. Although I find women attractive and sexy I am more drawn to men. Willing to bet Theodore Laurence, Mr Rochester, Mr Darcy etc were men their authors were attracted to.

 

Why?

What traits would you attribute to a strong person? How would they differ if the person was a male? Female?

Personally, I consider a strong character to be determined, principled, honest with themselves and others, and willing to take responsibility for their actions. I realize these are my subjective values but even substituting them with traits that someone else considers appropriate for a strong character, I cannot imagine why they would change based on sex, unless their definition of strong necessitated masculinity. To clarify, I don't mean strong as in a good, well-written character, but someone you could consider to have strong character if they were real people.

 

That is probably a good approach to writing. There's strong scientific evidence that biological sex differences do make a difference to characteristics such as empathy, word-skill and single-mindedness, but they're average differences and an individual of any sex could be anywhere on the spectrum on any of those characteristics.

 

I will admit when I write character, I actually don't mind at all writing female characters. I think it's a fun and interesting dynamic to add. Really though, when I do it, I really don't think much of them being a "female" character complete time. When it comes necessary, I will do so for various specifics and such, but more or less, I just look at them all as just being another individual person then anything else. When I stop and consider tons of female characters that I've enjoyed in many mediums and stories I enjoy, while I realize gender has a bit of influence, I don't harp on that alone.

Myself, a story I've worked on for a good deal of time now, the main protagonist is female. It was a decision I made earlier on into things as it does have a bit of small influence on things, but since that was established and design to her, I've just designed her thinking as an individual then fact she's male or female aside from where needed. I really think that attitude towards it can really help out.

Here's concept art for her which should show attitude towards it alone:

 

Your question is why all the cool characters from your favorite movies and books are almost entirely male? Well, for one, it may have something to do with the type of movies and books you enjoy.

If you enjoy war stories, you aren't going to find many female G.I. Janes that fight, kick butt and blow stuff up that still seem realistically feminine. Violence in general, and war in particular, tends to be a masculine pursuit.

In you enjoy crimes stories, there is plenty of room for cool female characters, either as Nancy Drew type detectives, spies, jewel thieves or assassins in their own right.

Welcome to the wonderful world of stereotypes. The "damsel in distress" is a plot device to make the male hero actually heroic, by facing danger and saving the day...face it, it all the hero had to do was mow the lawn, there isn't much heroism in that...not to mention that the story would be quite boring.

The "Bruce Lee in high heels" stereotype is also a plot device to make females seem more heroic, because lets face it, the reality of smaller framed and physically weaker females is not conducive to heroic tales of high adventure. To compensate for the general lack of manliness of your average female, writers make their female characters either far smarter than their male counterparts, martial arts experts or something bizarre like mutant, alien assassins from beyond space that kill their prey with sex...or something similarly silly.

Without something "special" to give them an edge over the big, dumb brute male stereotypes they will be going up against, the female MC would realistically get her butt kicked and the readers, as well as the writers know this. Which is why I think such things are so common.

Because Jack Sparrow is a character from a Disney family movie. If comedy/family stories are your cup of tea, there certainly could be room for a female Jack Sparrow.

However realism pretty much negates any change of a realistic pirate story having a strong female MC in charge of a bunch of actual pirates. Real world pirates of the Renaissance era were a murderous bunch of cut throats, who stole, slaughtered and plundered civilian vessels on the open sea (See recent news stories about modern day Somalia pirates for a dose of reality about pirates...in the real world they aren't lovable and comic like they are portrayed in the Disney movies).

In a realistic pirate setting, aboard a ship at sea, what do you think would happen to a female with no avenue for escape, at the hands of actual pirates? It isn't very pretty.

Most stories need a hero and heroes are strong and dashing and well...heroic. That usually means a male who steps up to the plate, endangers himself to save others/defeat the bad guy. A writer, when attempting to make a story believable to the readers, has to factor in certain things, such as the differences in what makes a strong male character and what makes a strong female character.

Strong males are physically strong, brave, courageous and not afraid to die to save others...typical hero stuff. These traits are easy to recognize and traditionally associated with males. Most males instinctively protect their families, will risk life and limb to save their kids and are the ones who are required to register for selective military service for a reason.

Strong females gain their strengths from other sources, than males. They aren't physically stronger than men, unless the story revolves around comic book heroines and usually aren't larger than males (except for the giantess stories). Strong female characters are usually portrayed as gaining their strength from their intellect (being smarter than everyone else), from their endurance (being able to endure extreme abuse, hardship or torture) or from their strength of character (a willingness to sacrifice themselves to save others). In some cases, they are given special abilities or powers (martial arts experts, psychic powers or the ability to use magic), but unless you are writing fantasy, that isn't going to cut it with most readers.

Basically, in my opinion, it is easier to write a male hero MC and because it is easier, many writers take the easy way out, which is why male characters dominate the market. It takes more skill and work to make a believable heroine.

 

There have been female pirates - who was the famous one lol ? There are always exceptions Elizabeth I did alright commanding a bunch of pirates.

Apart from that I agree with you Lothgar there are plenty of strong female lead characters but it depends what you read or watch. Carla Lane writes some of my favourite for TV - not heavy sexualised but nor are they chaste. There are plenty of others.

 

Annie Bonney? The ultimate ladette--but doesn't seem to have been very strong morally...

 

The Red Lady was the one I was thinking of but there have been female pirates dating back to several hundred years BC. The Lady of Mercia and Queen Teuta were also famous ones. The list on wikkipedia has a fair number. Don't think morals are a major requirement for being a pirate

 

Athena.

Even in boatloads BC, people embraced the idea of strong women. Few of the Greek gods commanded as much respect as she.

 

I really hate what I put in bold up there.

This seems to be the creation of male authors who I think really dislike women but are trying to act like they don't. A woman who is 5'2" and weighs a 120 lbs can't beat up large men unless she has super powers, a gun, etc. You can learn "martial arts" but they aren't magic. You might be able to move like Bruce Lee, but you need the force and bone density to back those moves up.

Anyway, I believe that turning a female into "a man" is spitting in the face of females. It's like saying, if only women were like men, then they'd be cool. This is heavily contrasted with a news program I saw about one of the heinous civil wars in an African country, whose name is slipping my mind. It boiled down to two tribes who hated each other and there was mass killing that just wasn't ending. The women of the country got sick of it and united in spite of tribal differences. As a mass they walked into areas where guys were machine gunning each other to block the fire. By doing this they ended the war because the men couldn't shoot the women.

I recall in the 80s or early 90s there was rioting in South Korea and the troops were treating the rioters in a very brutal manner. Out of nowhere there was this beautiful girl with flowers and she would stick them in the soldiers' gun barrels. They appeared dumbfounded and just couldn't act. Afterward, it all started calming down.

To me, those stories are as amazing as Bruce Lee if not more so. It's something men could not do. If a group of nice guys walked in front of machine guns, they'd get shot for being stupid.

I'm a big fan of Asian philosophy and the Chinese idea is that if you have to throw a punch, you've already lost on many fronts. So, you can have two types of heroes and approaches. If I was getting jumped immediately, I'd want Bruce Lee but if I was in the middle of a holocaust I'd want the African women to help me out.

I'd like to see female heroes written by women, or men who actually like and understand women, where said characters solve problems in novel ways that men cannot. A current example of both men and women doing that is Iain Banks Culture science fiction novels. Frequently, these novels are about people carrying out intricate plans to achieve a goal and not blasting each other other as a prime solution.

 

You seem like you are saying that if women are bothered by the lack of character representing them, then we must just be looking in the wrong genres. Aside from that being kind of messed up in itself, it's not just a genre thing. There are more male authors than females, and as you can see from the attitude of some men in this thread, plenty of them are not comfortable writing women, resulting in a pervasive gender gap especially in books that are classics or that have 'made it big' like Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Dan Brown's stuff. Look at this list of top 100 fictional characters.

This trend may begin to reverse itself, as women are reading more than men and books like Stieg Larsson's are finding an audience.

I see nothing in your description of what a hero must be that restricts a female. On average, women may be physically weaker than men, but a woman who has served in the military could probably kick the crap out of your average thug. Also, there are things like weapons that level the playing field. And not every male protagonist, even in action or adventure novels, depends on sheer brute force. Women are perfectly capable of being dashing and heroic.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your intent; are you peddling stereotypes as if they excuse the gender gap? It's not believable that a woman would risk life and limb for her family, or that a man would use his intellect to his advantage? This tendency to pigeon-hole based on gender may exist in literature, but it is by no means realistic or excusable.

This implies that men are less complex than women and I strongly question this assertion. Men may less frequently express emotion through the same venues as women, but are they less capable of experiencing the same spectrum of feelings? Do they think less, and do they think about simpler things? Do they aspire to lower achievements, do they have weaker wills? Why would they require less thought or less development than a female?

 

Yeah, although... Lara Croft was pretty awesome. :redface:

 

Are you sure there are more male authors than female ? When I look at the paperback section in Tescos there seems a pretty even spread.

When I look at the Writers and Artists Yearbook website there are 24 authors at the top and if I have counted correctly 12 are female.

Maeve Binchy
Alison Baverstock
Emma Bowd
Jane Green
Rosemary Canter
Jacqueline Wilson
Justine Picardie
JK Rowlling
Mary Hooper
Kate Mosse
Julie Myerson
Maggie Gee

I am sure there are others that would come to mind with thought.

 

This is a gap that we may see getting smaller as the reader base shifts towards female-dominated. However, there is a reason that women authors have frequently taken on male or gender neutral pseudonyms as recently as J.K. Rowling; women may be willing to buy a book by someone of either gender, but more men are reluctant to buy a book authored by a woman. This, combined with the underrepresentation of women in book reviews, as mentioned in some of the above articles, will have a significant impact on success and on a woman's chances of putting out another book, if she can get published in the first place.