Let's welcome our new moderators!

Beware the curmudgeon.

 

Too, sometimes a person’s viewpoint may be an opinion, but their logic/reasoning in arriving at that view may be faulty. That’s often not an opinion. However, there is limited value in repeating the same thing if the other person just isn’t going to see it. As long as the conversation has forward momentum I agree that there is value.

 

I don't disagree. I could link several threads (or mention several names) where I ejected out of a debate once I realized the person I was arguing with would never concede an inch of ground from their position. But it generally takes a lengthy back and forth before I'm certain of that.

 

As a new Mod, I would answer that one by simply calling attention to the fact that a certain thread has become 'stale' - for want of a better word - and it might be a good idea to return to the original topic, or even just move on. I don't mean a thread shouldn't chew over a topic for a while, but sooner or later it can just keep repeating itself. It's not necessarily anybody's fault, but sometimes things just need a re-set.

Here's the thing. This is a forum that most people join because they are interested in writing and want to get some ideas and help with writing, or just to hang out with other people who are writers or wannabe writers, etc. Read the new member introduction threads if you don't believe me. Nearly all of these people state where they are with writing just now, or what their ambitions are, or the fact that they want to meet other writers so they don't feel as if they're struggling on alone.

It's not a forum that people join because they want to argue all the time.

I have no problem with people taking neverendum arguments to the debate room, as long as they remain civil to each other. But if too many good threads get hijacked by peripheral arguments for too long, the purpose of the thread dies.

 

It sounds like you have an inherently negative view of arguments, where I have a neutral view of them. Actually, in many instances, I've experienced them to be incredibly illuminating.

 

I just want to say congratulations you three! You will make great moderators as all of you seem to be very sane, and your posts are always so helpful and well thought out

 

Well, it's not an absolute for me, but I have seen too many threads go south because of the drive for debate rather than discussion. Just because somebody 'wins' a debate, because the other person gives up, doesn't make the winner right. It just means they stick to the argument the longest. Debate isn't nearly as persuasive or illuminating as discussion, in my opinion. But hey.

 

I think we should be careful about the idea that all discussions must have a forward momentum, and be moving to a point where presumedly everyone agrees. That often is not possible, but there is value in continuing a discussion anyway. People get the chance to talk and new voices can weigh in. A good example is this thread, which of course as a 20-page sticky isn’t there to settle on a singular naming method that we all use going forward. But new ideas are shared and the discussion is still going after five years! And I don’t think there’s a problem with that.

What’s important, I think, is keeping discussions from being destructive. Even if the argument is circular, we should ask ourselves if it is doing any harm. A thread like that is likely to be the most interesting thing on the entire forum at that given moment, and interesting things keep forums alive.

 

Yeah, yeah, but there are those people that can come in with just one snarky remark and de-rail the whole thing. Usually it is from being too personal.

 

Must have missed this so belated congrats! Good picks. I like the temperament of this site although I say that having never really ventured into the debate room. I prefer arguments/conversations to debates. I'm not really interested in proving my pov point - merely just expressing it. There's not many subjects I'd call myself an expert on.

Matt E makes a good point. I don't want this place to turn into a site where every viewpoint is in perfect harmony. That would be a little boring. Also a little weird. Because it can become less about how a viewpoint is expressed than the actual viewpoint.

 

I agree, but I am a proponent of focusing on the people who make remakes like that, not the discussions that see the consequences.

 

I agree. But there have been times the mods focused on both and then closed the thread. Overboard, not fair, or both.

 

I have pulled back from the forums quite bit of late, as it seems like every other thread devolves into debate and bickering, which is not why I'm here at all. I'm not saying there should never be debate, especially about factual matters related to writing/publishing, but God it is positively exhausting to see it all over the place here lately.

I think I've been here for nearly three years now, and the forum just seemed more focused back then. I'm 100% behind a return to that state, so that it's a place I want to visit and make contributions to instead of avoiding.

 

Yes. That is the issue that concerns me the most. Snark. And personal attacks on other forum members in the guise of 'debate.' That's what destroys good will and good atmosphere on the forum, and also makes it impossible to fully discuss any issue.

There are many many topics (writing issues and otherwise) we will never all agree on, and that's just life. I feel everybody should feel safe to contribute and discuss their point of view, whatever it may be. With no snark, and no personal attacks.

Discussion means anybody can contribute an opposing point of view and the merits and demerits of each view can be chewed over for a while. But as soon as snark or personal attack enters the picture, for me, as a Mod, the thing is done. And yes, I will focus on the person or people who drifted over the line. I am not going around looking for a fire, but if I see a spark, I will certainly squirt some water on it. I don't want to close good threads because of the actions of a few people.

 

Looking forward to it, ironically I do more for improving my own writing and a couple others in a Discord I have then here on a forum. Which is why I joined WF in the first place, to improve my writing and help fellow writers

So be nice to get back to basics on this site, the focus more on writing and less on Clique Tribalism and getting apprehensive when someone's way of writing it differs from our own, or take it as a personal attack when writing styles and mannerisms differ.

So, looking forward to it!!

 

I feel you LK, I feel I've done more for my own personal writing and writing of others in a Discord I have as opposed to here on WF.

She'll be nice to share personal opinions and techniques without it devolving into a shitshow of egos or viewing someone's personal way of doing things as an attack on their own

 

I'm interested in seeing how something like "argumentative petty" is moderated going forward.

 

I know other writing forums where "petty and personal disputes" don't exist and I think it's a cultural thing rather than from continual enforcement of mods. I really think this issue will come down to the most active members making the choice not to engage even if they feel it's deserved. This is what's going to set the tone for the rest of the forum. Newcomers will see that nonsense isn't tolerated by the community as a whole, not just the mods.

It's kind of like being on a quiet cart on a train and someone starts talking on their phone. Yes, that person is breaking the rules and another passenger may be justified to tell that other person to shut up, but what happens when the person being told shut up gets offended and starts yelling back? Now the well intentioned passenger just turned the quiet car into a shit show.

Better to just wait for the conductor to come by and take care of it if the person is even still on the phone by then. And yes, there's the chance that person will have "gotten away with its it" but wanting the person to get in trouble "just because " is probably not the behavior we want on the quiet cart or on the forum.

 

This. I rarely participate in the actual writing threads anymore because of the bickering. Of late, some people here seem to thrive on being assholes, and it's exhausting to read. I'm here to learn and help my fellow writers, not to debate some asshole who insists on turning every thread into a cesspool.

Yep.

 

I can't speak for @Shenanigator , but I absolutely plan to participate more after this announcement.