I would only consider it a love triangle if Seren is torn romantically between the Guardian and the Prince, which it sounds like she's not. But that said, as a reader I don't care at all if a trope has been done to death already, as long as the author can write it in a way that entertains me.
You have been conditioned to want this. Why? Because on tv it is the romantic/sexual tension that carries the show. Once the people end up together, the show is over. Here in the US it is used by staff to kill a show they don't want to do anymore.
I've never cared for love triangles. They always seem to be intrinsically selfish. As in - Look I've got two people fighting over ME, two people that love ME, and I get to choose - not them. They don't do the choosing ... Someone always seems to wind up looking used. I recall Sweet Valley High in their first hundred or so books in the series the major mc Elizabeth Wakefield started off with one great love Todd Wilkens. In the first book there appears to be a love triangle - Liz is secretly in love with Todd and her twin Jessica is chasing after him. But it's kinda a pseudo triangle as Todd makes no secret he likes Liz and Jessica only confuses him by appropriating Liz's identity. A real triangle emerges books and books later after Liz and Todd become the series reigning couple, have to separate because of a contrived plot devise (his family moves away) and Liz gets another boyfriend - the sweet and friendly Jeffery. Jeffery is a different boy much nicer, his eyes don't wander and he's not half as arrogant as Todd. But ... Todd's family moves back. Liz's feelings are stirred and Todd of course is available. Here's the interesting part she chooses Todd and Jeffery is rejected and takes it like the gentlemen he is - but this is where the selfish angle comes in - Jeffery only reappears in the series two times (now he could be mentioned much later in the series but where he's needed i.e. after the breakup he's curiously absent) once to show that he still pines for Liz, and another in passing. This is a boy Liz worked with on the school paper and in lots of school programs. A friend. Instead of showing that life goes on - giving Jeffery a girlfriend and letting them work together, Jeffery is left in limbo. It's making Liz look like the only worthwhile girl in school and he lost her. Very selfish. I like love to be more complicated and less about turning people into - do I want chocolate or vanilla. When my father fell in love with my mother his greatest battle wasn't about choosing between her or someone else but reconciling himself to being forever linked with her family (sorry ma!) and his family's lack of initial support. Lea - that being said your example really doesn't feel like a love triangle it sounds more like a circle of unrequited love.
There are two basic kinds of relationships that are often referred to as 'love triangles.' Scenario One: A loves B who loves C Scenario Two: B can't make up his/her mind whether he really loves A or C Scenario One is pretty true to life, depending on what you do with it as a writer. I think we've all been there. Somebody wants to go out with you or claims to be in love with you, but you don't feel the same way. Instead, you are in love or attracted to somebody else. (Who might or might not reciprocate, which is another facet to this triangle.) This is an interesting kind of triangle to explore. However, Scenario Two is less believable. In fact, in a book, film or TV series it can be damn frustrating, because it's so obviously a 'will they/won't they' ploy to keep the reader/viewer coming back for more. Watching somebody swithering around trying to decide which guy she loves is so unconvincing. My impulse is always to say, 'Move on, dearie. The answer to your question is "neither," if you really can't make up your mind after all this blooming time.' Obviously if you're 'with' somebody and somebody else comes along who feels more 'right,' then there may well be a period where you don't understand how much your feelings have changed, or you try to figure out what to do that will cause the least amount of hurt. For example, maybe you're planning a wedding, but you realise you want to marry somebody else instead. Or the person you're with is very needy and you think they won't be able to get by if you leave them. However, that's just deciding what to do—not deciding how you feel. You KNOW how you feel. Once you recognise your feelings, they need to be dealt with. Petal plucking is annoying, and I think storytellers might be well advised to steer clear of it.
Love triangles can be interesting- take Humbert Hunbert, Dolores Haze, and the other mysterious pedophile you only find out about at the end of the book, or the story within a story (from Don Quixote) where the husband convinces his best friend to seduce his wife in order to test her faithfulness.
I know it's always called a love triangle - I've probably called it as such but I just don't know if it's that accurate. I always thought triangle meant two fighting over one. Or two options one decider. With Humbert and Dolores and Quilty - you could even insert Charlotte in there - and in effect it creates a kinda unrequited love circle - Charlotte loves Humbert who loves Lo who loves Quilty who loves no one but sleeps with Charlotte who loves Humbert who ...
What aggravates me the most about love triangles is an MC that can't decide between two love interests. Mostly because I usually have the one I know I want the MC to end up with and the other is only getting in the way. And if it's drawn out long enough, the MC starts to look annoying and indecisive. But yours doesn't sound like that. It's more of a relationship with an unrequited love on the side. So long as Seren doesn't turn around and suddenly develop feelings for her Guardian, I'd say it's more relationship drama than a love triangle.
The love triangle in YA books has become a cliche in the last few years though. It seems that ever since Twilight came out, so many YA books have to have a female protagonist, that is bouncing back and forth, between two guys, but it's being done so often that it's apparent and obvious from Twilight influence.
As someone who read Young Adult fiction prior to Twilight, the love triangles have existed and been prevalent in fiction aimed at girls long before that work I think the biggest thing is that young girls and teens don't have any idea what love is, so while it is total wish fulfillment that you are the singular choice of several attractive boys (no question), the vacillating & wish-washy~ness also mirrors the truth that most of the intended audience are still trying to come to terms with simple affection, sexual attraction, and true romantic regard. And when you have no idea where one ends and the other begins, or how they overlap, it makes perfect sense for immature adolescents still coming into their own not to know their own mind (or heart, whathaveyou). Doesn't alter that sloppy & cliched love triangles are overdone. But the appeal & reasoning for them seems pretty straight forward
@NoGoodNobu Then why not simply have twins to choose from? Make one nice and sweet, and the other a douche-bag. Then have the one who can't decide between flowers and a foot rubs, and verbal/physical abuse and kinda rapey. Basically all that you said can easily be applied at the adult level. That would also explain why both sides of the isle are walking contradictions, saying what the want and going after the exact opposite of what they claim to want. While I cannot speak of my own exp. on the matter as I never date same person new face thing. I have heard plenty of women in the lather rinse repeat thing more often than I care to admit. Often goes about like this: My guy is a jerk, and why can't I find a nice guy? Or Why are all the good ones taken or gay? Then ends up with douche-bag Chad #(pick a number more than 3) with a new face, and treats her just as the douche-bag Chad before him. Honestly, as a man that grew up in an abusive household I can't help but feel sorry for anyone that does bounce through abusive relations willingly. And that is saying something coming from a masochist. Though at the same time they all kinda deserve what they get for always chasing douche-bag Chads. Sorry to wander off on a bit of soapbox, but the brain is a pattern seeking thing that makes notes of said patterns.
I'm not really sure what it is you're trying to say As far as I know, I believe there are plenty of twin love triangle stories available out there—my experience though is that they cater not to an either/or but a both desire. And they usually quite often are played as opposites. But I don't quite understand your point? As for at the "adult level," I don't think that adults (at least mid-twenties & up, maybe even starting older) completely lack an understanding between different sorts of attraction and regard. Like I, at 26, am fully aware when an individual simply sexually arouses me vs when they are a wonderful but platonic companion vs someone whom I think can both meet my physical, emotional, etc, needs and that I can hopefully reciprocate this in turn, & so on and so forth Most grown women understand, unlike pubescent adolescents, the difference between the numerous and varied sorts of "love" even if they are repetitively returning to something they know never works out (which I'm not precisely certain how that relates to the indecisive tendencies of heroines in Young Adult love triangle romances?)
Spoiler Maybe I never read enough of these sorts of stories, but the frustrating thing for me is the bad vibes I get from it. Yeah, I understand it's art imitating life. Been there, done that in my own relationships. But it would've been nice to read a story where these conflicts are actually addressed. That is to say, delving to the root of "the problem". Why girls always find themselves in these situations, or why he/she desires this selfish wish of having the power to choose between two people that "love" her, or the dangers of being a dude with Mr. Nice Guy syndrome, developing detrimental behaviors of entitlement and obsession. Instead, in these stories, things just "work out" or "don't work" and there is no attempt at an explanation. Not saying that YA fiction authors have an obligation to preach to their audience as if they were their own children. Yet, it seems odd that it's always avoided. I guess my main complaint is that the MC never grows or learns their lesson, whether that be about unrequited love, or a selfish desire to play with the emotions of two different people who love them. Shit just happens, and that's that. Meanwhile, I read (more like studied) Anna Karenina as my mid-term project in an AP Literature course, and that book was a lot more satisfying in this regard. Sure, there's tumultuous, non-sensical emotions and feelings, lust, and so on. But there was also lots of reflection, and change going on in each character, and rationalization. A simply beautiful masterpiece on Tolstoy's behalf. If I only had a sliver of his ability... And what the hell is love to a 15 year old, anyway? I was there three years ago, and had no idea. Three years later, I still don't really know. I'm yet to talk to a single person that can actually define it. It's been described in more than three different ways by more than three different, *successful*, married couples I know. Not to mention the multitude of ways it has been described by *not so successful* couples, like my parents. I guess I just expect too much from YA. Perhaps these more complex questions and issues are better suited to adult literature. But point being, that's probably the reason I didn't read much YA fiction as a kid. The only series I *really* loved was Ranger's Apprentice, but even THAT had a love triangle (just so happened to slip through the cracks; possibly because it was a side-arc). I mean, literally every single YA series has a love triangle... For Hell's sake, series I'm reading now called "Quarantine" starts off on page one with a love triangle. Then there's The Hunger Games... Anybody point me to a successful YA book or series that didn't have a love triangle? This is actually rather humorous. Should be a good challenge. /endrant tl;dr Sorry for going off-topic. Anyway, @Lea`Brooks, I'm not your intended audience. I personally would find it too cliche, however as I mentioned above, I LOVED Ranger's Apprentice as a kid, and that series had a love triangle. However, it was a sub-arc, and had minor influence on the story. And I guess just like anything else, it depends on how well it is written, and if it entertains me. I've full faith that your story will be both of those last two things. All I'd say, is I'd challenge you to challenge your characters to actually sort out the underlying emotional and psychological issues of the love triangle, in a satisfactory way for both them and the reader. That, in my mind, would really set it apart in a very positive manner, compared to say, Twilight.
@NoGoodNobu Basically what I am trying to say is that the asshole always gets the girl, and the nice guy gets at best stuck in the friend zone. The feminist bashing not withstanding, please try to listen to this woman who has the exp. and age on either of us to simply hear them out. (Yes I am using the "argument from authority" thing here, but it does however support my argument in regards to my initial statement above.) It all comes down to that sexy organ between the ears. Also I apologize for using the 'argument of authority' aspect to back up my original position in this debate.
^ With all due respect, I believe this is in danger of wandering off topic. I don't like speaking for other people, but it seems to me that Lea wants to know if her story sounds too cliche - and *if* it does, how it might be improved. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. As an aside, there are just as many girls who "friendzone" "good guys" over an asshat (whether it be out of a simply shocking amount of ignorance, or because they're emotional-abusers), as there are guys who believe they're entitled to the love and devotion of a lady because they're "nice". That last one isn't legitimate kindness, and doesn't make one any better than Legit Douchebag #69 by paving the path to Hell with good intentions. I'd like to see Lea avoid this common misconception in her love triangle. If that's the point you're trying to make, I'd agree! I only know this, having been both the abused, and the abuser. For stories to be the currency of truth, the coin needs two sides.
@Foxxx perhaps the age of 18 precedes your wisdom, or that your playing at something. Forgive me for checking in advance of my response. While I will concede to someone with the advantage of exp. and wisdom that exceeds my own, you present an anomalous contradiction. You speak as an elder, yet present the contrary in profile. Anywho, the over all point I am trying to make is that of the reptilian fore brain that is apart of the updated modern humans. Meaning that as evolved as we are, still answer to the baser primitive side in the end. It is nature and that which drives us whether we realize it or not. That being said. How evolution has really kept us lock and step within it's grasp, and how most don't see that it is the case on a psychological level that we can neither control nor understand. Brawn over gray matter still wins the day. That and there are no Neanderthals to speak out one way or another. Mainly due to the fact that our ancestors killed them off some several tens of thousands of years ago. So as an observer we are nothing more than our ape brethren that we evolved from. Might is right and intellect is for outcast, yet we praise our brightest. Humans are the most contradictory of species in terms of what is good and what is not. Selfish and loathsome creatures we are in our 'advanced' status at the top of the so called food chain.
Well I appreciate the compliment. If what you say is true, I can only hope to have such moments more and more often. Just to be clear, I see the value in what you're saying. I find that sort of discussion quite interesting. It's just I sensed the increasing electrical static in the air, a sure sign that things might accidentally get politically-charged. In light of the subject matter you've brought up, I would like to see some of these more "serious" or "complex" ideas about love, and the human brain, instinct, etc. discussed in YA fiction. I alluded to this earlier, when I suggested that Lea should consider actually having the characters do some deep reflection--you know, *really* change. I want to see these young characters try to come to grips with the hard questions, like why the MC enjoys the attention of having two people "love" her, or have the Guardian ask himself if he even knows what love really is. Lea doesn't need to provide the answers. But it wouldn't hurt to try and get a younger audience to actually give something some true thought, especially since it more or less concerns themselves. Otherwise, the love triangle is nothing more than an inanimate caricature that represents a situation we've all been in, except only skin-deep. Have the characters actually tackle it, try to understand it, and grow from it, in some form or another.
Agreed. Dysfunctional, poorly done love triangles were prevalent long before Twilight, it's just the most popular series with it in recent memory. I will agree that there are definitely psychological elements that draw people to love triangles. But that road goes both ways. Just as people gravitate toward romance in books, the romances can affect how they view real life relationships. People know it's fiction and all manufactured, but there were still a ton of girls saying "Forget a knight in shining armor, I want a vampire in a Volvo" when Twilight was in the height of its popularity. Perhaps if we could get more people writing healthy relationships in fictional media, we could start to change the collective obsession with unhealthy ones.
^This. Although, I might add something. I don't think the problem lies in simply having an unhealthy relationship. It has to do with the kind of message it sends, which depends on the execution of said relationship. For example, I've read a few YA books where the unhealthy love-triangle is never really solved. Sure, the characters found happiness and things turned out okay *somehow*. But that's exactly my point: somehow. It's always by accident. I've read *one* YA book (to be fair, I never read a lot of YA) where the characters actually grappled with the internal conflict caused by their love triangle. Where they actually asked themselves hard-questions and got to the bottom of where they went wrong, how, and why. It is through these revelations that the characters figured everything out, which in turn became proof of the characters' growth and maturity. They didn't escape the love triangle by running away from their unsolved problems, or by pure accident / mysterious forces.
