Marketing

Discussion in 'Marketing' started by GingerCoffee, Feb 22, 2015.

  1. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    At least it was entertaining though. Czech billboards and posters make absolutely no sense. There's a billboard of a naked woman with her legs spread in a sorta splits, head hanging down so her hair hung down her front and covered her breasts and vagina. To this day, I still have no clue what it's selling.

    Then there's another one - a smaller advert. The only thing it had was a picture of a very colourful-looking eye, as though it's wearing some awesome contacts. There were maybe 3-4 words in Czech next to it that I didn't understand, so I asked my husband, "Is that an advert for the opticians or lenses/glasses?"

    He took a look and said, "No. It's advertising office space."

    o_O

    Then there was the most bizarre one. There was a man's bald head that's partially visible, set at an angle so it protruded from the side of the poster - all you saw was the bald scalp and part of his eye. Then there was a hand draped over the top of the head. It basically looked like it should have been a pregnant woman's tummy, except you know it's a man's bald head. Then there was a single caption in Czech.

    Again I had to ask my husband what on earth that was trying to sell. Apparently, it was trying to say something about the birth of ideas... my husband said it sorta made more sense in Czech because they have a phrase for such an idea.

    Basically, 9 times out of 10, you'll get some bizarre picture, and then maybe a single sentence in Czech that doesn't even tell you what it's actually selling, with the company logo almost nowhere to be found, or certainly not terribly visible. I guess they have communism to thank for their really, really poor advertising...
     
  2. Megalith

    Megalith Contributor Contributor

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    Well, I was being drastic but think about it. So little of the ad is spent informing the customer that most of it are just tugs at the unconscious. From the cheap laughs to the quirky lines meant to deliver information in a memorable manner. And sure maybe the latter is something even writer’s are guilty of, but we don’t try and nail it to a science. I know there is more to it, but basically they look at points of data and draw general conclusions from it.

    As a customer I want to believe I’m making an informed decision. how many times do you admit you are buying a cereal because the cartoon character’s reaction made it look yummy? If my decision is not informed then there are other factors at play during this decision which I am not consciously aware of.(And if I’m guessing or don’t care, then still it wasn’t the conscious individual that made the decision, rather we decided against making a conscious decision) Marketing science isn’t looking to inform masses about the product. It wants to bypass that step as much as possible, and get to the selling and buying. In that sense I think it is very subliminal and dishonest.

    Well sure, but that still has a subliminal effect. Gaining credibility just because it is on a news show is how MSM gains control over its subjects. CNN and these other news programs, like FOX, don’t have to worry too hard about how credible their words are, because their position gives them that credibility. Even something this simple can be considered subliminal because our conscious ideas and subjective perspectives of what it should be like are unconsidered, even abused.

    That may not be very clear, so let me explain it this way. It isn't a 'subconscious,' It’s more of a subjective unconscious molded by consciousness. And giving credibility to news shown on a medium like television isn’t a conscious decision most of the time. Only through triggers we have learned over time, like being betrayed by aimlessly believing their credibility, for example, can we rise above this unconscious decision and make it conscious once again.

    Maybe this isn’t anything I can prove but the unconscious is always working its magic based on the will the conscious decided on. A common example of this is known as habit forming; However, it is a little more fundamental than that. ;) The prefrontal cortex is constantly programming the rest of our brain based on our conscious connections and ideas. And the unconscious is taking this programming and applying it to itself, taking some load off of the conscious. Anything that influences us by targeting this unconscious byproduct of our conscious is, by the simplest definition, subliminal. And I know I might be a little unfair with such a general definition but…

    This all goes back to how skin deep ‘Marketing science’ really is, and how far it is from the issue. I don’t know a whole lot about marketing, but I do know a bit about the factors involved and I have seen the evolution of commercials over time. This all gives me insight into the following:

    They are looking at a subjective counterpart of the formula. They will witness the factors they pinned down change over time, while having to guess at the reasons, because they aren't expanding their horizons beyond the dull definition you gave. No matter how ‘advanced’ it really is, because they are more concerned with efficiency and effective ‘market’ strategies, than anything else, they will never reach the more honest goal of figuring out ways to make the product’s advantages and disadvantages, perceived, understood, and make that information easily accessible for reference.(With that type of strategy at the front, doesn't ‘making the information easy to remember’ sound a lot less sinister?) Marketing puts the product over the market. This hurts the market’s effectiveness and reliability as well. But that is a different topic.

    I think you are doing your book a disservice by hoping that unrelated entertainment will help spread the message, ‘Buy my book.’ Make the content related and just as entertaining and then people are sharing your video for entertainment that doubles as a message which sells your book.

    I’m sure it is, but can it ever be any more than advanced guessing?

    I think part of the problem in our engagement is a fundamental outlook on what marketing is. Sure we have a scientific definition which meets the products demands, that is for the people who pay for the service. But because it is ultimately product driven we get this extremely ‘specialized’ view which does little for us otherwise. And as someone who is trying to look into this system,(you) should take any strategies with a grain of salt, because often times they compound their strategies with things like icons and running gags, and so many other things that make the whole subject convoluted. And I can see this from the resulting ads behind this 'research.'

    Sometimes the best solutions are the simplest. Maybe it takes more effort to bring them to fruition, but as long as you don’t give up on it, keep the goal in mind, I'm sure you can do it. :)
     
  3. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    A lot to comment on here, I'll just focus on a couple things and skip the semantics argument over what is and what is not subliminal.
    If you want to make informed decisions, you're not going to get there with an advertisement no matter what is in the commercial.

    With the trillions spent on marketing research, I'm pretty sure the science is more advanced than guessing at any level.

    Not sure how you can say I'd be doing my book a disservice when I haven't made the trailer yet. And I'm not talking about making a song and dance video, I'm talking about looking for the viral element that might work in such a trailer.
     
  4. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Well, huh. I started reading this thread because I'd never heard of promoting one's book with a trailer video* and I hoped to find out more about how that can be done. If there's anything I'm bad at, it's self-marketing, and my career trajectory is woeful proof.

    But for better or for worse, the marketing video chosen as an illustration elicited such a reaction that here we are, debating advertising per se.

    @GingerCoffee says her son will help her produce a trailer video that might be effective. Great, but what about those of us who don't have such accommodating and talented connections? To take the controversy in another direction, is it is even possible for us ordinary slobs to come up with a promotional vid that a) isn't laughable, and b) doesn't cost half our lifetime earnings, let alone what we might make on the book?

    Has anyone on this forum produced such a thing, and, if it's kosher according to forum rules, can you supply us a link?
    ______________________
    *It hits me that I have seen promo videos for nonfiction and self-help books, if not for novels. And I do hear radio adverts for fiction books.
     
  5. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    http://www.booktrailersforreaders.com/

    Part of the reaction to the OP video was a missing of the point which was about some guy on CSPN virally spreading an ad for Virgin America which was in turn serving the dual function of being a safety video and an advertisement.

    I didn't post the thread to say look at this cool song and dance. The hint was in the thread title, "Marketing" and in the forum "self publishing."
     
  6. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Here's a different style:
     
  7. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    A lot of people choose music and printed words rather than voice:
     
  8. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    If you have a lot of resources like Rick Yancy's does, you can produce a professional trailer like this one for The Fifth Wave:
     
  9. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    I personally would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever have a trailer for novel. It feels really tacky and kind of tasteless. I don't think I could take a book seriously after seeing a trailer for it.
     
  10. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    That's where marketing research has a role:

    With a grain of salt because this one is promoting their trailer producing services:
    I showed them several samples. They, like me, oohed and ahhed. But better still, they said, “Oh, I have to read that book.”

    But this one is a publisher blog:
    Book Trailers Serve as a Multiplier for Book Discovery

    And of course, let's hear from the other side of opinion:
    Why Flashy Book Trailers Don’t Work
    Except she's not completely against the trailer:
    And that is what I plan on trying to do with a trailer, when I get to that point in this adventure.
     
  11. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Yeah, thought so. But the fact the video example got so much reaction shows how effective it is as a vehicle for Virgin America-- even if the effect is to make some people go, "Nope, stop manipulating me, too much!" It's one spot where the sponsor's name won't be forgotten.

    Which is the result we want if we do anything in that medium for our books. Right?
     
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  12. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    You can have the best book in the world that doesn't become famous for years because the exposure curve has a long latency. Or you can have a great book but you don't reach the genre market just telling your friends and relatives about it because they are not the genre market. We need to reach our markets. What are our options?
     
  13. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Speaking for myself, I detest business. I respect higher pursuits, either academic, physical, or creative. I'd rather let a businessman split profits with me 50/50 and have him do all that trivial and ultimately forgettable stuff. I just want to create.
     
  14. Megalith

    Megalith Contributor Contributor

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    Not with the current standards it is not. But if your given enough information, you can use that as an informed decision. I’ve used this example before in another thread but I think it will be perfect again here…

    The Fault in our Stars was sold on informed opinions. It was the YouTube channel’s standard of quality and its large following, acquired from exercising that quality, which gave it enough of the ‘right’ attention. Sarai Cruz attention.

    "When you have an active fan base, they have a huge appetite for content.” - the CEO of RED Interactive

    This was all that book needed. I think if you read through this example, you’ll see how ‘informative content’ is becoming a much a part of marketing, and how relatively ‘new’ it is to marketing. Companies have been trying to figure out how to use ‘social media’ as a marketing tool and finally they are coming to their senses about the key ingredients. And those ingredients involve establishing a relative brand loyalty through ‘Consistency’ and ‘Quality’

    Things we knew from before this neo concept of ‘marketing,’ things that were forgotten in the process. These things have never truly ever left the sight of a company but indeed did separate themselves from the specialized term, ‘marketing.’ However, examples like Fault in our Stars and video games in general are showing us that ‘informative’ style marketing is still not only possible and very effective, but also truer to the product. In fact it might be that entertainment is the only real place for this ‘informative’ type marketing, but that might just be me being a little pessimistic.

    I wonder... when you look more into it, if you’ll agree that there must be more to it. Or maybe rather, less to it? If you get some research regarding your specific genre, could you maybe link it? Ive never seen any and it might end up being more enlightening then I’m imagining.

    You know more than marketing does. If you just stopped defending it for a second you could probably see that. This is one of those few times when you should look inside yourself for an answer, rather than relying on a marketing strategy for a viral video.

    I guarantee you if you make multiple videos, your chances of going viral will increase dramatically with each one. Expectedly however, each video will increase your following by greater and greater degrees. You know who your readers are, what they are like, and how to get their attention. Educate and entertain! Explain what you think is lacking in YA’s right now and why they should care. You can poke fun at your own genre and bring a comedic taste to your critiques and comparisons. You can gain and earn respect from your audience using your understanding and perspective of the genre. Doing this ‘consistently’ over a long period of time, without losing ‘quality,’ will establish your ‘brand’s loyalty.’ So when you introduce something new like your own novel, you’ll have the rapport to get them to listen to your advice based on your established credentials. That was merely an example. But it’s an example which tailors the audience to your book. You wouldn’t need a large following. The more tailored the audience becomes, the less you’ll need to get that benchmark that will take you over the edge towards mainstream popularity.

    The author is the brand and the book is the product. As a brand you need to represent your product by establishing your presence within the market you are representing. Most people think this can only be done by writing enough books or finding a publisher and using ‘marketing’ but, there is another option which looks at these two split paths and realizes they are fundamentally the same and something you are trying to touch on now. ‘marketing’ is really just a shortcut to the alternative; skipping this process of establishing your product. (Which isn’t exactly true, especially when using well established publishers)

    But if you establish your brand before the product is ever seen then you can pretty much get free marketing through social media. Trying to accomplish that with one video would be really difficult. To even get enough attention, it would have to be fairly unique and spectacular.(because the audience isn't tailored you need more attention.) Accomplishing something like that might overshadow the original message of your brand which is, ‘buy my book.’

    This was an option that was never totally possible without ‘social media.’ Anyways that is some food for thought on a subject I have been dissecting for a while, and approaching the problem from a pure scientific marketing standpoint never made much sense to me.
     
  15. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Ummm, since when does making a book trailer mean that is the only marketing I plan to do? I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

    Social media marketing takes a lot of work, it's no guarantee that you will grow a fan base anymore than a blog will. I do plan to have a Facebook page for the book and I purchased the domain name of the tentative title more than a year ago. It's only $10/yr US from NameSilo to buy a domain name.

    From your link:
    That's major marketing and "set photos" suggests it was done by the movie producers.

    Having a fan site for the book is a great idea, but you need fans before you can have a fan club.

    As for the marketing science, I've been following marketing science developments for the last 40 years (OMG I'm so old). It's always boggled my mind how effective marketing techniques are. It's one of the themes in my novel. You don't need the thought police from 1984 when you own all the microphones. You might be surprised at what you don't know that you don't know about marketing science.
     
  16. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I liked this, I might even be interested in reading the thing, but the shot of the book cover was way too short and the credits rolled by way too fast. If I hadn't known it was a video book blurb, I-- well, I wouldn't have known. Who is the author? I have no idea even after watching. And why say only that whatever it is is available at the library? Doesn't the author want to sell any copies?

    Still, it engenders ideas.
     
  17. Okon

    Okon Contributor Contributor

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    I think that fully seeing the actor's faces or hearing their voices makes the trailer tacky, and that text with music [and more vague or representative visuals] is more compelling.
    Here's a creepy one that screams fantasy. The song IS the blurb, and the illustrations a just perfect, IMO.

    Cheap 3d done well, here. This would grab most YA readers.


    Compare those to this one. It's an interesting story, but the delivery has way too many words:

    This one's off-putting. It's trying too hard, I'm seeing too much, and it's just so bland:


    Now look at this one. It's good. Notice something very different here, from the trailer I posted above?


    Less is more.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  18. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    It's probably on the author's web page and not designed as a stand alone. That's a mistake we can learn from.
     
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  19. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    This reeks of false advertising to me. Basically, you (not you but the advertiser) are enticing me with audio and visual effects, yet your product, minus the cover, is only printed words.
     
  20. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Thanks for the examples and your reviews. The faces thing reminds me of something I was discussing with a friend. She hired a cover artist then wasn't happy with the character image the guy drew. You have to decide if putting images of people on your cover or in a trailer are going to give the reader an image of those characters which will help or hinder their take on the book.
     
  21. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    How does it differ from me telling someone what the book is about?

    Think of the future where ads will talk, will you be left behind because you don't want your book ad to talk? It's not unrealistic with everyone using smart phones.

    I ran into a similar argument from the skeptics. I suggested we were failing to take advantage of the science of marketing. A common reaction was, marketing is dishonest. But that's not true. You can use marketing in a dishonest way. But it's the user that makes it dishonest, not the science.

    You don't have to mislead anyone, you don't need to trick them. Marketing is just a means of effective communication. Effective doesn't mean dishonest.

    For example, it's more effective to market to the YA audience via social media, because that's where they are. But you also have to know where on social media to find them. People look at things their friends share with them. Six degrees of separation means you may not need to share something with very many people to reach millions.

    Why not use a trailer that people want to share with someone else? It doesn't mean you are using a gimmick, it means you want to tell people about your book in an interesting way.
     
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  22. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Snobbery has its downfalls, what can I say? :\
     
  23. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    :confused:
     
  24. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    These adds feel very gimmicky and cheap but I bet they are effective
     
  25. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    But they don't have to be gimmicky and cheap. They can be interesting and informative.
     

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