Mental Health Support Thread (NOT for giving medical advice, or debating)

Not sure why this didn't come to me earlier but I have a bit more to add. Thanks, Allan, for making it click.

Depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain. Plain and simple. Whatever the cause, that's all it is (particularly when it's long-term depression lasting longer than two weeks, which is definitely the case here). It's no different than any other emotion. Chemical imbalances are hard to resolve and sometimes nothing we externally do can correct it. Sometimes we have to fight fire with fire and that means medication (which can correct the problem over time, thus removing need of it).

There are, however, a number of things that can be done to affect those chemicals. Improve your diet. Incorporate more fatty fish (with omega-3 fatty acids), like salmon, into your diet or find supplements. Vitamin D (from more sun or supplements) deficiency can cause a lot of problems in the body, including affecting our mood. A quick Google search will produce a plethora of dietary options to help with your mood. Also, exercise.

I know it can be a tall order to change your diet and habits, but how much do you want to get over this?

 

As pathetic and "first world" as it sounds, the thing that depresses me the most is worrying about money.

And letting the house get messy. I am not sure which is the cause on that one. Does the house get messy b/c I am depressed or do I get depressed, when the house gets messy?

Either way, cleaning even just the counters makes me feel a LOT better.

Then getting my finances in order. That helps me sleep better.

I have the same style of dreams, when I am worrying about money and am getting depressed. I dream I am being eaten by sharks. Or in an airplane that is crashing. Dreams about things things I cannot easily control. Once money is taken care of, I am so much better!

 

All this because it cannot possibly hurt. And next time you go in for a checkup, have the doc do a thyroid level test. It is the #1 cause of depression and is treatable for about $6 a month, if your levels are low. You will feel 100% better, if that's it.

 

I've found an abundance of great suggestions in the replies in here, particularly the post quoted above.

Heal41hp, you have no idea how miraculous it is to have a friend like that. Most of us don't, and it makes all the difference in the world. I have no support system. You walk around like that guy screaming on the bridge in Edvard Munch's painting, and when you reach out to someone--especially to a friend--and get a few bumper stickers and a shove, it's like getting hit by a truck. That was my experience, and it made everything infinitely worse. In addition to the depression, which was already feeling insurmountable, I also have the pain from having a friend (that I considered my blood-sister) do that to me. Just scrape you off and leave you for dead.

I have a clinic near me that uses sliding scale, but I can't even afford that right now. I've been without medication for a year, and it was only marginally effective to begin with.

I've never been a tea-drinker, but I'll try it. I'll check the local health food store. Is that website the only place I'll find kratom? I hope not.

@ Mot--thankfully, I have no alcohol or drug issues. I don't drink or use. A year ago, I got a prescription for 90 Hydrocodone for chronic back pain--spasms that have me in tears. I still have 80 of them left. I only take a half at a time when ibuprofen doesn't work. Getting drunk and getting high don't work. They actually complicate things. I wish more people realized that. Very good advice, thank you.

I'd love nothing more than to get my life back. This is a nightmare.

Thank you so much for all your suggestions, and hearing what others have gone through reminds me I'm not the only one. Thank you all so very much.

 

i was very much someone who didnt realise that energy drinks were part of the issue, what most people dont realise with them too, is that they can have similar effects to drink or drugs if drunk in excessive quantities (trust me, i know, ive been there and im glad to have booted them, just another month and a bit and ill have been off them a year)

 

I had the same kind of writer's block, and it lasted an entire summer, due to a love story gone wrong. I would advise you to write how you feel down on paper, and not worry about the technicality. your emotions right now are kind of your raw material. do not waste them. and later on, you could use them and incorporate them into your writing. you are also very much welcome to speak to me, any time you like. I can help, I hope.

 

To cure yourself of depression (which is the hardest, but also the BEST way), you have to make yourself get out of your comfort zone. Comfort kills a LOT of things. Progress being one of them. Depression holds a bit of comfort for me too.

I totally hear what you are saying about chasing your depression. I do it too. When I start to feel bad, I seem to endeavor to feel as bad as I possibly can, as soon as possible. Like I was depressed for so long, that depression is what I know and what I am comfortable with. It's easy.

Fighting back is not easy.

You have to make yourself do it and not give up, when it is tough and doesn't seem to be working, right away. Your depression will say (in the voice of Eyore) "Good. It's not working." because while we don't love depression, it is comforting, for some reason. Familiar.

Also, being brutally honest with yourself and being aware of your motivations makes an extraordinary difference. If you feel down and are able to do so, mention it to yourself. "I feel like crap today. Why am I so grumpy?" and try to figure out if something set you off, today. If someone got you angry and you are arguing with them, in your head (this part sucks) see what it is about that person that is like you. I hate, so much, when I realize that I deeply dislike someone because they are acting in a way that I am tempted to act.

Realizing it helps me move forward and it is deeply uncomfortable. Essentially, I have to say to myself "I hate the way that person acts, because it seems I, myself, am an ass."

Forgiving people who have wronged me is also cathartic. Arguably not as cathartic as being present when they caught on fire or something, but still pretty good. It is AGONY to do it. Here's how... (it blows, I'm warning you!)

Pray for them.

Pray that [the god of your choice] will bless them and lift them up in his hands and fulfill their hearts and all of their dreams. Answer their prayers and guide them to greatness.

You will especially die if you see your prayer answered. But the prayer is not to help them. It is to help you. And like any spiritual surgery, it is painful! You will understand people who cut themselves. Physical pain is something you can understand. Emotional pain is not visible or able to be patched, salved or bandaged. You can't even treat it. You have to identify the cause and work on curing it. Or as in the case of the death of a pet or close, loved one? Learn that you must live with it forever and let it gradually fade to a tolerable level so you can function in the world.

 

Let us remember that there is a difference between being depressed (which everyone experiences at some time) and clinical depression. There is no cure for clinical depression; there is no thinking your way out of it. One can learn coping mechanisms, but those only help - they don't cure. Episodes of clinical depression are not always caused by something bad happening - stress of any sort can bring it on, including a wedding, a birth, a promotion, a raise - anything. Or nothing. It just happens. Those of us who have been dealing with this illness for a long time (in my case, decades) understand that we can alleviate some of the effects because we recognize what happens when it starts. We also know it's going to run its course, regardless.

 

I've had to deal with severe depression for a few decades now. (yes decades) Although I've only started writing in the last few years, I've quickly learned that with depression you just have to take what you can get and grab those lucid periods when they happen.

Are you 'worse' in the morning or at night? (Depression that has a strong bio-chemical basis usually makes it worse in the morning, while more psychological based depression tends to get worse at night.) For me I'm worse in the mornings, so I leave typically leave my new writing until the end of the day.

However, what I will often do is just use my state to determine what I'll do. If I'm not in great shape, instead of trying to write new work, I'll review what I've written and revise sections. When you can't write, read.

In the end though, don't torture yourself. If you can't accomplish anything in 15-20 minutes, do something else and come back to it. Otherwise you may only make yourself more annoyed and irritable - which may make you adverse to writing in general.

 

I see, so your solution is to think positive? All this time people should have just been told to snap out of it and think positive and it would cure depression instantly. Thanks for the tip.

Depression doesn't have to have ANY cause. It's an illness, not a state of mind.

Depressed=state of mind
Depression=mental illness

Only once you understand the difference can you understand how a person is supposed to cope with it.

 

Not to think positive, but to know and see oneself. Not that thinking positive would be bad.
Everything has a cause. If someone is depressed or has depression, then there is a cause, fact of reality. There is no "it just is so", if you truly think it can "just be" then you might as well say "it's magic".
As to finding the cause, and the "cure", that's the hard part.

Honestly, it's not nice, not to mention disrespectful, to pick some points out of someone's text and disregard all the rest, and say the few points are all the person said and meant. I've had to deal with the same before... and with misinterpretation. Not smart at all.

 

I do understand how lucky I am to have this arrangement, as I didn't meet him until I was about 20. Before then, I had no one. I didn't even have family I could turn to (as family was a large part of the development of my depression, via environment and genetics). I never had the courage to reach out to people, so I don't understand the pain of rejection your describe. I can't imagine what that would be like and I'm sorry you've had to go through it.

There are a number of different medications out there. Don't discount them just because one (or two) didn't work. When the funds become available and if you're still having problems, I suggest you give it another go with something new.

I believe tobacco stores and head shops might stock kratom but I can't in good conscience withhold information I discovered in my search for that. While legal, it is (as an herbal substance) unregulated by the government and thus its effects have not been scientifically explored. I even found out it's on the DEA's "list of Drugs and Chemicals of Concern, a watch list of substances that government chemists are studying" (source). Also, Thailand, where kratom comes from, has banned its use. While this may sound worrying, there are legitimate arguments against at least some substances the government has banned via the Controlled Substances Act. I, personally, will continue using it as I have (unless reliable research provides reason to not do so) and will simply repeat that you shouldn't use too much.

Regarding tea, I wasn't a tea drinker at all until I realized the health benefits. In fact, I despised tea and felt the health benefits outweighed a miserable experience. I started with bagged green tea of the store brand and hated it. I figured I had to have been doing something wrong, since tea is the world's choice of beverage second only to water, and did some research. After only a few hours, I understood my mistakes, remedied them, and have since fallen in love. If you'd like any guidance in this area, I'm happy to help.

 

I have Biploar and write. Been depressed the past three weeks (combination of personal issues and some things at work) but I keep going. The only way clinical depression will get better is treatment. There's nothing, I'm afraid, to make up for a good anti-depressant. And please don't hit me with the 'organic' angle. I've tried St John's Wort, which worked ok...but never very well.

Some of the meds are generic. Welbutrin is one I take and it's only 12 bucks at my little country pharmacy at full price. My recommendation (as someone who suffers from it) would be to go to one of the free clinics in the area and try to get treatment. Try a google search on them and see if any are in your area.

As for writing...it's tough for me when depressed but I manage because I've gotten effective treatment. I couldn't imagine trying to write without being treated or it would be twisted prose.

 

First off, it's not an issue of whether there is a 'cause', let's not play semantic games here. The issue here is that you are attempting to blame the victim of an illness for his/her illness. As for a cure, there is no cure for depression. The world's brightest minds have not yet found one.

Your words are there to see, I make no apologies for going after those who perpetuate the stigma that somehow those with depression somehow caused it themselves. You remarks represent the epitome of prejudice. Let me quote from "the rest" that you suggest I overlooked.

Professional help is a waste of time? People can think their way out of depression? I consider that HIGHLY offensive. So we can scrap the psychiatry profession, you've got it all figured out do you?

I guess people can think themselves out of being gay too? Surely there is a 'cause' for homosexuality, so by your logic it would be simple to fix by "knowing yourself".

On average, one person dies to suicide every 40 seconds. Are you saying that their deaths were their own fault? Surely by your logic if they are their own cause for depression then they are responsible for their own death. I consider that HIGHLY offensive.

You are digging a very deep hole here, you would be wise to consider how you plan to get out of it before you dig any further.

 

I have suffered through really bad depression and tried to commit suicide about two years ago. It sounds simple and ridiculous, but, focussing on the future is the probably the best advice I can give you.

Chances are you feel bad because your situation is shit? Focus on how much better it is going to be, because you are doing this, that, or the other to improve your situation.f you're not doing anything to improve your situation, make a list of things you are going to do.

While at the root, this is what cured my depression, I had about 8 months of therapy to go with it.

You could also buy the book "natural prozac" or if you're really poor perhaps try to pirate it somewhere. It is a dietary guide to beating depression; something I did initially instead of going on anti-depressants. Healthy living (good food, exorcise, proper sleep) is in my opinion the best way to clear your head, especially if your depression is alcohol/substance inspired. Remember though, try to do little bits at a time; don't go to bed one night saying "I'm going on a diet tomorrow" because if you fail, you'll just make yourself feel even worse.

I don't think psychiatrists have a place in 95% of incidences of depression. I would sooner prescribe LSD or magic mushrooms than I would anti-depressants. It's true people can think their way out of depression, I know some people who have, I myself did it with a psychologist.

By the way Savant, I had this exact same argument with a couple of people when I first started using these forums - there is no actual answer, it's like arguing whether god exists, or chicken vs. egg. Just ignore it, or prepare for a massive battle.

 

Will you be telling me aspartame causes cancer or that 9/11 was an inside job too? It's sad that human kind has come so far and yet we still have people who reject medical science. Depression alters brain chemistry. It's not magic, and you can't think your way out of it. (I'd offer a link to an image showing a PET scan of altered brain chemistry in a depressed person, but I have a few more days to go before I can post links)

Honestly, if people could 'think their way out of depression' - don't you think they would have done so?

Of course there is. There are PET scan images that totally slaughter any suggestion that depression is somehow a 'thought' disorder. As medical technology improves, we'll see more of this.

I deal with this on a daily basis when I do suicide interventions and people who have been told that "professional help is a waste of time" or that they can "think their way out of depression" are telling me how they just downed a half bottle of vodka with the bottle of pills. A lot of good 'thinking their way out of it' did them.

I'm not afraid of battles. I battle against it every day when I get someone to put down the gun they have to their head. I also know medical science supports my position.

This is precisely why there is a stigma attached to mental illness, and I will tirelessly battle to stand up for those who get told that they are to blame for their own illness.

 

Hi,northernadams,
I'm sorry to hear you feel like living in a nightmare. It's a feeling many of us seem to be able to relate to, so at least you're not alone.

Losing oneself in a story helps ward off depressing thoughts, but unfortunately depression is such a condition that sometimes you can't do anything when you're having a really bad day.

Some people say don't take anti-depressants. Okay, if you find the right pill, it's great. Things get so much better. When the right drug is in your system, you can write, you can do everything. But unfortunately we aren't all lucky enough to find it, so we have to look for alternatives.

To be honest, I find the whole discussion about depression vs. depressed destructive and actually really damn depressing. Yeah, you can't cure yourself with happy thoughts, but they help. Any positivity helps. Self-help books help. And sometimes that help is as good as a cure.

My number one advice: go out there and experience life. That inspires me to write, and writing about a certain thing inspires me to go out into the world and try it out. No money and back pain are a hindrance (believe me, I know), and when chips are really down and everything is shit, it's really difficult to get oneself going, but I know I will feel better once I have peeled myself off the couch, and money-trouble and pain won't feel like mountain-high roadblocks after a while.

Sports are also a great outlet (and does good to any physical and mental problems). I also love to go to the horse stables because the animals' presence cheers me up.

I think this is good advice. Also the one about going cleaning the house and going outside to write. Or maybe just read. Social seclusion seems to worsen the situation.

Also really good advice and support with finding that writing spark again. Omega-3 can help as a supplement because it alleviates inflammations in the body and brain. Finding company helps, internet is great for that. Many support groups have "free" meetings, maybe bring a little money for coffee and sandwiches, but that's about it. Unfortunately not all support groups work. It's touch & go with that. The worst is being left alone, but at least most people have internet nowadays, a great way to connect. In the same vein, finding a peer group or a writing workshop can be helpful: feedback inspires you to write and at the same time you have to socialize with other writers.

Good luck & hang tough!

 

This may sound simplistic, especially coming from somebody who experiences the occasional 'down day,' (which St John's Wort helps) but has never been clinically depressed, but...

I wonder if some of the conflict people have about depression comes about because there seems to be two kinds of depression.

One - the kind of depression that is caused by bad stuff happening in life, death of loved ones, loss of job and self-esteem, lack of money, alcoholism, too many responsibilities, guilt about something in the past, etc. Medication might help (or at least make this kind of depression easier to bear) but it seems to me that this is the kind of depression that might well benefit from psychiatric counseling? To get to the root of the problem? The 'think yourself happy' brigade might have a point here, too.

Two - the kind of depression that is physical in origin, the kind of chemical or hormonal imbalance that has nothing whatever to do with 'bad stuff happening.' Bad stuff may well happen as a result of this kind of depression, but is not the cause of it. Sometimes it's as easy to correct as SAD, the seasonal disorder resulting from lack of sunlight. Just provide a source of artificial sunlight, or get people into an environment where there is more sun, and they pick up right away. Other times hormone replacements, thyroid boosters, and certain anti-depressants can provide immense help. Happy-clappy thinking isn't going to do a great deal of good to somebody whose thyroid is messed up, or whose endocrine system is out of whack. Happily, in this modern age, there ARE effective remedies. In the past, there weren't.

Whatever the root cause, depression is a serious disorder, and people who suffer from it really struggle with their daily lives. It's a horrible black tunnel, and if they see light at the end of it, it's usually a very long way off. They derive no benefit whatsoever from other people dismissing them, or making recovery sound easy. Recovery is always easy, for somebody who doesn't suffer the problem in the first place.

 

[MENTION=53222]jannert[/MENTION]: Provided that we are talking only about true depression, ie. other organic causes have been excluded, you are right, some people get depressed as a consequence of too much stress while others just seem to get depression for no obvious reason, but chemical imbalance is exactly the same in both. In the first group, sustained levels of extreme stress will cause the brain to overproduce neurotransmitters in order to cope, until all the reserves are depleted. It takes many months to replenish the reserves (a year or more) hence they need medication to supplement the lack, while their brain makes up the gap, after which withdrawing of medication (slowly) doesn't cause relapse. The second group we know less about, but it may be that the illness they have results in never being able to produce enough neurotransmitters (like in bipolar and schizophrenia they overproduce) so they need either repeated courses of medications throughout life, or even to stay on the pills for good.

 

Well, I tried to kill myself, diagnosed with depression and an alcohol dependency, was prescribed oxycontin (or something that sounded like that), didn't take them, saw a psychologist, went through therapy and two years later I no longer suffer depression. I have a down day here or there, but no suicidal thoughts, and am generally a good sport to be around.

So yes, you can think your way out of depression, and yes people have done it, and will continue to do it.

Do you know the difference between a psychologist and psychiatrist? I never said professional help is a waste of time; I said that going to a doctor and getting some pills will achieve nothing but a (possibly additional) drug dependancy. Depression has to be tackled from every angle of a person's lifestyle - activities, thoughts, diet, exercise, socialisation - the lot.

And with that, I'm out of this conversation - it will go nowhere.

 

This totally ignores the fact that clinical depression cycles - it decides to get better, to go into 'remission', and also when to come back. If someone wants to give themself credit for the illness calling the shots, fine. Just don't tell others they're depressed because they didn't think themselves out of it. That's the old "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" mentality that leads to suicide. I really thought we'd progressed further than that.

ETA: Oh, and unless some of the newer drugs are addictive, one doesn't become dependent on anti-depressants. Another myth to explode.

 

Really? so they decrease the dosage slowly why? To make more money for the drug companies? If you have been taking most anti-depressants for a long period of time, it is incredibly bad for you to simply stop taking them. Mentally that is, it can make you extremely suicidal.

Never did say that; you are trying to twist my words. All I'm saying is you do not need drugs to get over depression, apparently that concept makes everyone lose their mind (I am hilarious).

Give a person anti-depressants for two years, take them off it, and in like a years time they will be depressed again. read what I said:

If you don't believe that, you're either ignorant or work for a drug company. Drug therapy might help some people make the transition but without changing lifestyle they will have to either stay on meds their whole life, or cycle through it.

 

Eeeeasy tigers and tigresses.

No one is telling him NOT to take anti-depressants for clinical depression. I think the understanding is that there is no available budget for meds or treatment (counseling). If he can get up and write on forums and string words together in a cohesive fashion, he is functional enough to start doing what he can do. Even if that is not (yet) a lot.

From our side of the keyboards, we can only offer emotional help. Not chemical. We are sort of gathering together, as a community of writers to help someone, with the things that helped us, when we needed it (and writers are FAMOUS for getting depressed).

He is undoubtedly terribly depressed. But not bed-ridden, 2-hours-of-sleep-a-day weeping constantly, depressed. I am NOT reducing the level of his feelings or in any way trying to minimize their impact on the OPs life. Doing it yourself is terribly difficult, but when you have no money for therapy (either chemical or verbal), we advise all the things up above.

Meds work about 17% of the time (statistically it is definitely better than a placebo effect, but not shockingly above it). Each med has about that rate of effect. So if one doesn't work, you have to try another. And another. And the side effects can be almost as depressing as the original cause.

ED and massive weight gain will make a man, with any vanity at all, feel like crap for a whole new set of reasons .

Sometimes the only pat-on-the-back you can give yourself for the day was that you got out of bed and dragged your carcass to work. It might not seem like a big deal to others, but it was a battle, won.

Back in the day, there was only therapy. And many, many people got better. Short of clinical depression, fixing the thoughts that cause your depression, makes a huge difference and are the cure that therapy offers. The meds (short of clinical depression) give you the strength to seek counseling. Depression is not only chemical. It is also thoughts. I could spin my last girlfriend into a spiraling depression that would end with her passed out on the floor from alcohol. With a SINGLE, accidental misspoken word. Or if I left her alone for too long, she'd spiral on her own. With no other input, her thoughts would eat her alive.

Not her brain chemicals.

The thoughts she used to activate them.

 

If you were an alcoholic, depression was a secondary illness, much improved by simply quitting alcohol. So if that's what you did, I doubt you'd have needed antidepressants as well. Counselling is exactly what helps the most in such instances.

Bona fide depressive illness, not associated with substance abuse, doesn't get better on a will or lifestyle change alone. Or if it does, it takes so long (years) that many people end up wasting good portion of their lives on it. Which isn't optimal, if you consider they'd feel better after 6 months on a right antidepressant. Hence, it's much better to get all the help that's recommended, whatever that may be for each individual case

 

They decrease the dosage because of the chemical changes the drugs produce in the brain - not because of addiction.

Some people don't need them - some people are not helped by them. That does not equate with "you do not need drugs to get over depression", and stating this as fact is definitley harmful and misleading. And no, that's not 'hilarious'.

Yes, because depression is not cured. It is treated. Do you also advocate that diabetics quit using insulin?

I never said that there aren't other things in one's life that have to be addressed. But changing lifestyle does not mean one can get off the meds. It just means that those changes combined with medications can be more effective treatment.

So no, I'm neither ignorant (thought some others are showing signs of this) nor do I work for a drug company. But I've dealt with (and educated myself on) my illness for decades; been in treatment with and talked with and been friends with others who also have this illness; I've gone through severe episodes and years of relative remissions. I think I have a pretty good idea of how this thing works. You were fortunate you didn't have to be on meds; others are not that lucky; still others, like myself, are among the small percentage where meds just don't work. It doesn't make the illness go away. It just means we have to find better coping mechanisms, and hope they work so we don't end up dead.