1. LasriCat

    LasriCat New Member

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    Meta comments or jokes

    Discussion in 'Character Development' started by LasriCat, Sep 18, 2017.

    I have a few jokes or comments in my story that are fairly or entirely meta. I'm writing a YA fantasy novel with importance on characters/dialogue, I guess it's also coming-of-age. I personally feel like occasional comments by the characters can be used for humorous (and more importantly realistic ) effect. Such as the one I just wrote that made me think of creating this thread.

    "Ah, so can anyone do what I did?"
    "No, in fact nearly no one can."
    "Ugh. Mary Sue."

    My defense for a comment like this, is I make jokes like this all the time with my friends. Like if something really unexpected happens, we'll make a joke like, "deus ex machina." One time we were drinking, and we ran out of drinks and spent like twenty minutes unsuccessfully planning on how to get more. Than I got up to get a soda from the fridge and next to the fridge were two crates of beer, so it was like a deus ex machina to us because in our story we weren't expecting that solution. (Ignoring the fact that at some point in the past, one of us put it there. :p )

    The way I see it, if you were suddenly thrust into a fantasy world with magic spells and all sorts of stuff like that, you'd often see parallels between the world and fiction. My question or topic of discussion is, how do others feel about meta comments from characters? Would it break the immersion of the average reader or would they see the humor behind it.
     
  2. FeigningSarcasm

    FeigningSarcasm Active Member

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    I think it really depends on the type of story you're writing and even then it has to be done tastefully. Personally, I can't stand the "this isn't a book/ movie" jokes in books or movies. It makes me roll my eyes and groan, but it doesn't ruin the story for me if they don't go overboard. (I still don't enjoy these little jokes, I just overlook them).

    If the story has a relatively strong comedic/ lighthearted backbone it might work. For example the meta episodes of Supernatural never drew me out of the story. However, SPN had a fairly strong comedic base built in before they started getting meta.

    Essentially it's something to be very careful with. No matter how well it's done it's going to put some people off just because it's a very sharp reminder that they are only reading a story. It's hard to stay immersed in a book when you're being constantly reminded it is just a book.
     
  3. LasriCat

    LasriCat New Member

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    Ahaha, I totally forgot how great the meta episodes of SPN are. Yeah, there is quite a lot of jokes other than this, so it's not too out of place. I totally get the, "This isn't a movie," point and even just realizing it's a similar vein of joke makes me cringe, because I also hate that ham-fisted attempt at a joke. I guess I'll make sure I don't incorporate any of the cliche meta jokes. I do feel like the overall style of the story makes it not too jarring. Thank you :-D
     
  4. NoGoodNobu

    NoGoodNobu Contributor Contributor

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    I personally love fourth wall breaks and meta-jokes/commentary. But I do think these fit with an overall tone of the work.

    For instance, I love in Into the Woods where the story tale characters decide to sacrifice/kill the narrator. There's this cozy little narrator standing outside the framing of the play from the beginning of the story, just narrating, and at the middle-ish to end suddenly where the characters are making a decision on who to sacrifice or all die they look over at him as he narrates and decide he isn't one of them. I don't think he ever was acknowledged as an actual presence the story till that point, and the audience was established in their assumption that he was a separate framing device when it all got turnt on its head. This actually fit the entire tone & themes of the play, so despite its interruption of expectation or the status quo, I think it was brilliant and entertaining.

    I've also never been "taken out" of a story before by fourth wall breaks or meta commentary or whatnot. It might make me laugh in surprise, but I'm still as much engaged with the characters and the story as before. It doesn't remind me that I'm reading a book or that this is just a fictitious story—I just now love it a little bit more.

    And like you, my friends often make jokes & comments in the real world as if it's a story, so realistic characters I think would emulate real life people.

    It's like how most horror movies seem to take place in an alternate reality where horror movies don't exist. It's the only real explanation of why characters would act or react in a lot of the ways they do. To me it's highly credible that a character might go ". . . or let's not split up or explore that clearly dangerous area right now, so as not to die cliche deaths."

    And in fantasy stories, it's mind boggling to me that every character to this day seems to be so against comprehending they are in a new magical world or whatever. If I was in a tornado or found a forest in a wardrobe or whathaveyou and everything was different & weird, I would go "this is spooky" but the moment someone told me I was in a different world I would accept it in a heartbeat. Momentary confusion or disbelief is fine, but why are characters so adamant, despite constant indisputable evidence, that they absolutely cannot be in another world? The denial is too damn strong and it's like no one has ever read Alice's Adventures in Wonderland or the Wizard of Oz or Chronicles of Narnia in the "real world" the characters initially come from. I'm far more incredulous of that and more likely to pop out of the story, going "Well now that seems far fetched."

    But I will admit that majority of 4th Wall breaks and meta-commentary take place in stories with at least a comedic undertone, if not a flat out comedy, parody, or satire. Or at least come from a snarky character.
     
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  5. SnapFandango

    SnapFandango Banned

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    I do not think that Mary-Sue is necessarily a fourth wall breaker, if someone were to excel at something, you (might- probably not unless you were a bit of a tit) throw it at them.
     
  6. LasriCat

    LasriCat New Member

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    While I wouldn't straight up say my story is parody or satire, it definitely has a comedic backbone, as well all the meta commentary does indeed come from the snarky character. I do totally agree with the points on characters in a fantasy world, and the comments about splitting up. My MC basically instantly accepts the fantasy, because she straight up gets teleported to another dimension, you can't bend your mind to deny the experience of teleportation. She constantly draws connections between the world she is in, and games and books. And even though no one else calls the Anomalies anything else she constantly calls them wizards or mages, she constantly uses the wrong terminology when referring to things at the start of the story.

    Also the splitting up comment is gold, and is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about, comments that honestly would make total sense in real life, things that people would say to ease the tension or make fun of a scenario. Because this isn't some world where no one has ever seen a movie or read a book.
     
  7. Partridge

    Partridge Senior Member

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    My main character is a failing fiction writer. Go figure.
     
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  8. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Sometimes when you write those little cappuccino 'jokes for one,' you have to go back and construct an entire house around the joke for the rest of the world to see it. Even when the day before you're all chuckling about your wit and your 'Mary Sue.' Then, when your house surrounding your 'Mary Sue' is complete, nuts & bolts, even a kitchen punchline, two days work, three fat paragraphs on the screen, you sigh, highlight them all, and delete, the problem solved in a single huff/puff
     

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