Millennials and creativity

I think it's pretty rare for most "creative" people to be creative in every aspect of their lives. I have no real interest in being a creative cook, or a creative sewer, or a creative visual artist. So I buy kitchen conveniences, pre-made clothes, and art that other people have created. Adding convenience in one area of life doesn't mean that I can't be creative in other areas, does it?

And if people do use tools for convenience, that doesn't automatically mean they're being less creative. Maybe somebody needs the timer on their frying pan, or whatever your eggxample was, because there really aren't that many creative ways to fry an egg but there are creative ways to season the potatoes that go with the egg or make a sauce for the egg or whatever, and the convenience of not having to keep track of the frying time frees up attention for the more creative aspects of the job.

Closer to home, I don't like Scrivener because I feel like it's constricting and trying to get me to write "its" way. But other people on this board love it and feel that it allows them to create the way they want. I don't think either camp is right or wrong, just different.

I think we need to have faith in human creativity. People don't create because they're bored or because a piece of software inspires them to, they create because it's fun and satisfying and important to them. Technology may help them produce more polished work with less effort, but people were creating back when they had to smear berry juice on cave walls... I think it's part of human nature.

 

And if there is any truth to all this, I'd say it's because of the media we consume as children and the whole "be yourself" mantra. In a subconscious way, if we're going Freudian, there's an allure to independence and being the special snowflake in the group. As writers, of course we want our work to stand out so that we can not only be recognized but gain a special brand of fame no other writer has. Authors like GRRM and Rowling make us aspire to greater ambitions, which I think is a facet of this personal branding.

 

I will respectfully disagree on this point. Making something easier does encourage creativity. What it is doing is making something accessible, allowing someone who might struggle for time, or because they did not have the skills to begin with, to produce something that might not be meaningful to others, but is a big step for them. The output then might open their mind and encourage them to explore deeper into an area, to devote more time to a particular creative pursuit.

As for auto-correct and those little helper features that annoy, or perpetuate language deficiencies on highly reliant people who would make no sense without it, well, these things helped someone. These someones might even get published before many of us! So wouldn't you say they have been encouraged? There might be some (many even) people on this very forum it is helping, and therefore it encourages them to write... I only say this because I have seen some shocking writing when the spell checker was absent. Totally boggled my mind, without all those helper apps, they were totally a different person. It was kinda scary...

But again, these cooking devices for novices, that's just trying to sell more products I assume. I am a novice cook, I use the internet for recipes, and really, I couldn't even be bothered to contemplate what you described. Stuff like that doesn't even factor in my buying decision. I doubt the creative cooks are using their devices for that either. I suppose maybe these super talented cooks might be using their devices to post recipes? Write on blogs about their cooking adventures? Or doing other things? They're probably just facebooking and looking at pictures of cats... People don't have to pay attention to all this garbage and see the devices as creativity killers... That's my point.

Anyway, I'm going to bow out of this discussion now. I've said all I needed to say, I'm not here to drive you batty Jannet and I'm glad you didn't get mad at me.

 

Hey grandpa matwoolfy, isn't this your mobile phone? Time for an upgrade...

 

and this...

 

Leaving aside the thorny issue of how technology affects creativity, I would like to make one observation and ask if others have seen the same thing at all.

I am often surprised on this forum, by the many people who seem to want validation of what they write ...before they actually write it. They want people to tell them what their characters' names should be, what should happen next, what kind of magical potions and powers they should employ against 'villains' and other similar things. Things that have nothing to do with the writing itself, but are about the story itself. That's the most creative part of writing, and they often don't want to engage with it—to the extent that, despite being told they need to figure this out for themselves, they politely persist in getting other people to help sort the issue by committee. Some don't seem to want to take any story decisions without prior approval from as many people as possible.

I can understand writing something and then showing it to other people for critique. I can even understand showing the start of a story and asking people if it works. But I really do struggle to understand what folks think they're doing when they want somebody else to figure out what their story should be. Is it just that they are very VERY timid and don't want to put a foot wrong? Or are they really struggling to use their own imaginations? They're good at fulfilling assignments (tell me what to write and I'll do it) but not so great at the creativity end of the exercise?

I might be wrong, but most of the folks who do this on the forum seem to be ...erm ...quite young? Is this a generational thing? Dare I say a millennial thing? Or have I got this all wrong?

 

I guess part of the problem with trying to make any definitive statements about a generation is that we tend to compare apples and oranges... like, the way a sixty-year-old thinks is going to be different than the way that same person thought at forty, or thought at twenty... So it's pretty hard to know if, assuming there are any trends to be noticed, those trends are attributable to the generation or just to the stage of life.

I've definitely gotten more secure in myself and more independent as I've gotten older. And the more writing I've done, the more confident I've been that I'm on the right track, without second-guessing myself.

I think there's also an element of people wanting to have written, but not actually wanting to write. Maybe when you're twenty you haven't really realized this about yourself yet and haven't figured out a way to either get down to work or walk away from the project? (That's definitely the explanation I have for most of the people wanting to endlessly discuss plot point and characterization... it's a lot easier to talk and dream about your story than it is to actually write your story).

 

Another angle would be that they are desperate for attention. Insecurity is quite common for raw beginners, and by posting a question about names or plot-storyline, the thread-starter has the benefit of engaging with a lot of people at once, all asking about the story he/she has in his/her head. He/she can talk about it to his/her heart's content - without getting damaging ego-critique in the workshop. Everyone likes to talk about their own story, and the prospect of having a lot of people engaged is a siren song IMO.

 

Yeah, it's hard to make generalisations. I just know that it never would have entered my head to ask somebody beforehand what sort of thing I ought to create, or what I should name my characters, or how old they should be, or what kind of magic they should use, etc. Before I got my computer in 1994 and started writing in earnest, I was a visual artist ...for many years. I never would have asked somebody what my subject matter should be. In fact, I really resented it whenever somebody tried to tell me what I ought to paint or draw ...and yes, they did. Draw this, draw that. Fine if they were my teacher, but nobody else got to horn in. In the same vein, I wouldn't dream of asking anybody beforehand what I should write. That part of writing comes from me, and nobody else. People can judge my work, but only after it's done.

I think what struck me was that so many of these questioners are young. Not beginners, but young. Some older folks in their 50s and 60s are just starting out, and they are worried about whether or not they'll succeed. But I haven't caught too many of them asking us what they ought to write about, or what they should name their characters, etc. That's what made me wonder ...is this a millenial thing?

It would never have occurred to me to ask these kinds of questions, even if I had started writing at age 15. I certainly used to make up my own stories at that age ...in fact it's something I've always done in my head. I would have HATED to have input as to the content of my stories. And yet ...some folk seem to crave that input. I don't think it's age. I think it's something else.

 

Well, no. Everybody doesn't actually want lots of other folk engaged with their story, at least not at the stage where it's being created. (Afterwards, maybe yes.)

I can't stand the thought of people reading something I haven't finished yet. I don't like people reading over my shoulder. I'm not done yet! The last thing I want is to reveal my hand until I'm ready. It's certainly not a universal impulse ...unless it's more universal among a certain generation?

In essence, it's folk saying "I want to write a story about some guy. What do you think I should call him? What should his house look like? Should he be a good guy, or should I make him into a villain? And ..." etc.

I find it odd that so many people don't find it odd. If that makes sense.

 

I think that technically counts as a millennial... they aren't as young as they used to be!

 

Well, maybe I'm unusual. But that never would have occurred to me. Ever. I wrote for nearly 5 years straight before I even admitted I was writing anything ...and that was to my husband, who wanted to know what I was doing with the computer. And no, he didn't get to see my novel till it was finished. And I was a complete newbie. I hadn't even read any books on creative writing, up to that point. I only knew I had a story I wanted to tell. I wasn't sure if I could do it, but I didn't want to tell somebody else's story. I wanted it to be my own.

 

1984-2004 according to this article.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...on-begins-and-ends-according-to-facts/359589/

 

Came of age at the millennium, I think.

They're the generation right after Gen X.

 

Yay this is still relevant...
Hipsters, today's version of yesteryear's Yuppies.
How original.
Creativity is on an individual basis, not that of a group consensus.
Considering anyone with a webcam can have a show these days,
there are literally a lot of unimaginative 'shows' to watch from
now until the end of time.
Seems people are more interested in blandness with the twist
being that they don't have to figure out what to watch based
on the TV Guide.
One guy made playing video games popular, and now there are
thousands who do the exact same thing. How creative of the
people who follow the trendy thing.
Seems like things have stagnated on the creative front.
We are like the edgy version of the 90's.
Consumer culture is not something that breeds creativity,
but rather the exact opposite. It is the lather rinse repeat
mentality for the most part. Why change the system
when there are hungry morons trying to be 'popular'
by continuing the 'Keeping up with the Jones' thought
with useless expensive junk.

 

I read that millennials are considered to have been born from the early eighties and reaches the bar until early 2000's. What? I find this somewhat absurd to tell you the truth (I recently learned that I'm considered one myself... lol), because in between these twenty years, a lot of important things have changed, to place a thirty six year old in the same generation as a sixteen year old. I find that the environment in which they grew up was influenced quite differently, for what is now common knowledge to a twenty year old, was not common knowledge at all to a forty year old at that time. It's these influences that make the generation gap. Differences in technological advancements, entertainment trends and sociopolitical views and happenings, is core elements that influence an individual, as it grows up taking them to account in order to figure out their part of the current wave, which molds their thinking patterns and habits. The gap is small from year to year, gets bigger from five years to five years, get's noticeable from decade to decade, but two decades? Too much of a gap in the upbringing I think, to place them all in the same pot.

To conclude, everything has to do with the upbringing. It changes from social status to social status, country to country, decade to decade, as civilization evolves. I think that every generation is built by individuals that try to make themselves, either standing out, or mingling in with the crew. (Action and reaction - Either you agree with something, either you disagree. No mystery there). No difference there. All people, from all generations did and still do that. The younger you are, the more obsessed you are upon seeking the right path and upon how others perceive you. You are still searching for yourself. As you grow, your self-esteem is boosted by the knowledge you attained, maybe you get somewhat tired and lazier and you become more solid upon your opinions and tastes. You don't care too much about your image. It is what it is and whoever likes it. Some people get there from a younger age, while some other take their time. They both have their plus and their minus sides, equally.

The millennials being this and that, is a load of crap. If I noticed some differences is that maybe they are somewhat more outspoken, which I find to be quite mature. Freedom of speech and debasement of older, scare tactics seem to have paid off. They seem more doubtful and mistrusting, but who could blame them? I find that this is pretty much healthy. There is a mild confusion of course in the atmosphere, but come on... Who isn't? After the international economical crisis that mostly affected the middle class, of course things ought to have changed. The stakes are higher and the antithesis (sped up technological advancements) is at the least making the big picture more obscene. It's like the saying: Some sew the seeds, some reaped them and today's over informed individuals fell on the obligation of not only sowing more seeds, but making them even better, since the balance of supply and demand has radically changed, since their predecessors handled this job. Standing on sterile land, trying to find any motivation to go on and any right path to doing so, is not an easy task. So, I think that some negative stereotyping upon this generation (if it can even be called that) is not a helping hand at all, since it's not understanding, but only blaming all today's faults irrationally to the ones that just happened to be born in this specific time frame. I find this ironic, really.

 

I generally make a point of ignoring these type of threads. I don't believe it is just the Millenials from what I've seen of the worst perpetrators.

On the flip side, while people might criticize these questioners who are perceived to be inexperienced and looking for validation, what would you say about the regular responders who are often answering and indulging these type of threads? I see that as a form of validation and needing to feel knowledgeable. Often these would be the Gen-X-ers or above. It doesn't apply to just the writing related threads, because this forum loves to flood the attention seeking threads. I can think of one distinct current thread I have been observing this behavior, boggled. The OP reads to be a troll, where people have said people of the OTHER forum must have no life, or that they could not believe writers would waste their time. What about the people of THIS forum?

I have seen on multiple occasions on these types of threads where multiple people responding would say, why are we indulging this? While still indulging it. And if you watch some of the behavior of this forum, I've seen many of the same people, respond over and over again. I have often wondered, do these people really have no life or will they answer ANYTHING?

So I will say you cannot point fingers on just one side. This kind of behavior seems to be encouraged on this forum. There's helpful, and then there's those that honestly seem to have no life, and to me, looking for their own kind of validation.

 

That's pretty snarky toward a forum you're a member of.

And you sure spent a lot of words complaining about how other people have no life. (And made quite a few posts on this thread for someone who has so many more important things to be doing...)

 

Well, it's difficult to monitor a forum and remove stuff like that. Nobody is being offensive. It's probably an idea to just ignore it and get on with other stuff, as you suggest. I just find it strange that people would seem to want or need so much input from others into their stories ...which touches on the topic of creativity in this thread here.

That's entirely different from learning and commenting on the act of writing, or on what has been written. That kind of input is helpful. That deals with how the writing is being received. But to 'vet' it in detail, before it's even written? I'm not sure how to approach that.

 

It is snarky because I find it irritating. I don't understand why otherwise intelligent people will indulge these silly threads as extensively as they sometimes do. I am all for people having a stab at something and giving the person the benefit of the doubt, but to me it makes no sense to me when these threads are perpetuated. I also have no time for the pity threads. I come online to seek inspiration and constructive thinking, and often I am seeing people flooding 'Poor me' threads...and I wonder why? As for the question asking, I'm not an enabler, I won't answer these people because I really do think they should think for themselves. Why leak creativity for the lazy? There is so much information at our finger-tips there really is no excuse. It's hard enough to find time for our own writing. I may not be right thinking that, but that is what I genuinely think. I'll never claim I am a noble, helpful or nice person. I do try, but as you can read, my honest opinion and impatience always gets the better of me.

This thread is interesting to me, and only because I like Millenials and also that Jannert caught my interest with her comment on the technology aspect, which I strongly disagree with. I occasionally chip in on threads where I feel strongly on some things, but I always regret it too. I'm not seeking validation here, and I always answer based on my own experience. I offer a point a view when I can, when I feel a thread is one sided. That there is unfair representation. I'm also rather offended for Millenials having had so much positive experience creatively with them, and I disagree with the labelling in general.

I am a busy working mother of twins, but that doesn't mean I won't spend moments here and there, to procrastinate and let off steam like many others. I do try to be selective, and I do try to tell myself I should be using that time writing, instead. It doesn't always work. But I'll not be indulging shitty threads where it is pure attention seeking, or someone who needs to stop being spoonfed. Unless, I really am having a moment of no-lifeness, but that's usually when hubby comes over and taps me on the shoulder and reminds me that I should be writing, or spending time with my family.

Jannert raised a point which was fair enough, and I was merely pointing out you can't have one without the other. There is validation being sought on both sides. Sorry if my opinion offends. I do have a lot of respect for this forum and constructive threads that are educational or its intent is to inspire.

 

@jannert

Writing without heart and conviction is bound to lead one through many roadblocks. The less vivid the author's reality is, the more sucepible the content is to being arbitrary. Should my imaginary country have two or three kingdoms? Symbolism should never be forced, but in my opinion, everything in a story can be symbolic in the sense that it subliminally sends a powerful message that is directly related to what the writer feels. If the reality of my novel is on very shaky foundation, I could literally spend the rest of my life deciding between two or three kingdoms.

I don't know why this phenomenon is more common among younger people, if it's generational or just being young.

Personally, I don't think millennials have very strong convinction when it comes to the hypothetical (generalization, of course). They are fantastic at working within the system, following rules and being innovative about it, taking leadership and working together, but try going off the deep end with them and they just get lost.

 

I wonder why anyone would even attempt to generalize such a large group of people. That just strikes me as silly.