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  1. Mayarra

    Mayarra Banned

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    Moral compass or mentor cliche

    Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Mayarra, Aug 30, 2017.

    A lot of stories have an older man/woman/dragon/witch/something that helps the protagonist develop (mentor) or stay on the right track (moral compass).

    Now, my dilemma is that I hate those moments of sudden wisdom or skill where the character is facing a problem and suddenly as the answer. Be that an actual answer or a hidden power he/she didn't know existed. So I basically want some of the major developments to happen through the aid of a side character.

    Are there ways to use mentors (and moral compasses) without them being too cliche?
     
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  2. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Rick And Morty is probably the best example I can think of as to how to use the mentor trope without it being cliche. Rick is a mentor to Morty, but instead of being the benign, helpful old man figure, he's self centered, narcissistic and frequently puts Morty in danger. Even when he's doing something to help Morty, his reasons and intentions are generally under scrutiny by Morty. Even though Rick is usually right, most of Morty's learning and morality is defined in opposition to Ricks guidance instead of by it. Morty's moral code is defined by his not wanting to become like Rick and most of his life lessons are learned on his own by doing what Rick told him not to and finding out Rick was right all along. Not only that, but Morty has absolutely no special skills.
     
  3. Laurus

    Laurus Disappointed Idealist Contributor

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    Don't make it so sudden. You can't just put a quarter in your mentor and expect wisdom to come rolling out. Those big insights take time and a combination of rumination, observation, and meditation. How your mentor treats his (her?) student will depend on his philosophies and what he's trying to teach, at least from a pedagogical view, but also be influenced by his personality. Maybe? What's your mentor character like?
     
  4. archer88i

    archer88i Banned Contributor

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    I dunno; for me, the cliche is that the kid never damn listens. :p
     
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  5. Mayarra

    Mayarra Banned

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    My idea so far is that he is an old man, only in his early sixties so not hundreds of years old or so. I thought of him in the lines of 'beware of the old man in a profession where most die young.' He survived the genocide that my protagonist survived as well, though instead of outrunning it physically like most, he avoided getting killed through his cleverness. Not 'mary sue' cleverness of course, trying my best to avoid that. While his plan to escape getting killed worked, others also fail sometimes.

    He is a man with a very sober view on things, mainly aiming to understand the 'why' of things for himself. One thing that separates him from most other characters is that he doesnt hate the humans executing the genocide, I would like him to break the 'humans are evil' thought. He is a kind-hearted man who tries his best to never see evil. To him even the most evil actions are done because the person doing it believes it is the right thing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
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  6. Etheona Frogg

    Etheona Frogg Member

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    You could have your MC's great moment or strength come from splitting from his mentor's position.
     
  7. Aardvark

    Aardvark Member

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    I have a "mentor" in my story. He is an old man, but his actions are morally ambiguous. He is also rather eccentric. He appears inconsistently and the primary person he is mentoring is not my main character. When he talks, it's not clear advice, nor is all of it particularly helpful. He leaves gaps, much like a mentor would in real life. I didn't want to sculpt him too much, he preferred to have rough edges. None of my characters can really be pinned down with strict consistencies. He does have a winded speech about his role as a "mentor" at the end of the first book, but it's rejected (not to be taken too seriously) by his inability to provide the protagonist with concrete assurance.
     
  8. AustinFrom1995

    AustinFrom1995 Active Member

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    Ya, I kinda hate that "The real answer/strength/power was inside YOU all along!" cliche. It's always so freakin' corny. Maybe you could try and subvert/parody it?

    Mentor Character: "But don't you get it Judy Pierce, the answer to the Hexidecimal Codex, the key to regaining your throne, was inside you the whole time!"

    Judy Pierce: "Really, it was inside me the whole time? So you mean to tell me I climbed Mt. Anguish, slayed the dreaded three-headed Wyrn, and nearly died...just to find out I had the answer all along?!"

    Mentor Character: "Ya, in retrospect I should have just told you that from the get-go."
     
  9. Lifeline

    Lifeline South. Supporter Contributor

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    The 'mentor's' I've encountered in real life led by example. Rather than saying something, they let people make their own choices, even when they'd choose differently, but the difference in outcomes underscored their beliefs. People gravitate towards them in times of crises, because they search for bedrock.
     
  10. Lankle

    Lankle Member

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    Mentor's have a limited shelf life. They're not forever and not useful in every situation. When experiences match it's often timing that makes the difference. I like the Rick and Morty example for that very reason. Rick has useful insights sometimes but he's not trying to influence Morty for Morty. He's usually just trying to get Morty to act in a way useful to Rick. Mentors usually have hidden motivation, if you can tap into that it won't be corny.
     
  11. Sclavus

    Sclavus Active Member

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    The "meeting with the mentor" is a step in the hero's journey that most stories I've come across will follow. The hero's journey is just one of many plotting methods, but it's a common one. Pick a story at random, and it probably follows some form of the hero's journey. Often the mentor is an ally whose job is to give the hero the tools (physical or metaphorical) to complete the journey ahead. That character may stick with the hero throughout their journey, or they might just be a stop along the way to completing the journey.

    I'm not a fan of stories where the character remembers a line of wisdom or somesuch from their mentor, and suddenly the hero finds it within themselves to continue on. That works great for Disney cartoons and kids shows, I suppose, but even then it can come across as corny. The mentor doesn't have to be a hilltop guru or some ancient ball of navel lint that holds the secret to the universe. It could be an enemy that makes the mentor realize something about themselves.

    In a good story that follows the hero's journey, you have the hero in an ordinary world. They're doing what they do, until the adventure comes their way. Frodo's happy in the Shire until the One Ring comes to him, and suddenly his world is different. He eventually realizes he has to destroy the One Ring, and Gandalf helps him. Likewise, Strider and the Elves show him what's up, and tell him exactly what a pain in the Isengard it's going to be to get rid of the One Ring.

    At least in the movies (and in the book, if I recall), Frodo doesn't have an epiphany of wisdom. He struggles and fights and very nearly loses his shit at Mt. Doom when it comes time to continue on. All the mentor has to do is set the expectation for a tough journey ahead. Gandalf tells Frodo the One Ring is bad news. Strider comes along and says, "no, really, it's bad news." But it's not until the Fellowship is formed that Frodo realizes just how bad it's going to be, even with allies. That's when we as the audience understand what the adventure will be about.

    None of the mentors at the Fellowship meeting tell Frodo he has to be strong. Galadriel tells Frodo to make up his own mind, whether he will use the Ring for his own power or pitch that crap into Mt. Doom and save Middle Earth. That's as close as Frodo gets to wisdom for his adventure, and it's a rather non-cliched way of going about it. Frodo still has to "dig inside himself" for reserves of strength he had never used before, but those come about naturally because of who Frodo is. He does what seems right to him, and because he is the hero of the story, it's usually the right thing to do (even if some of his decisions get people killed).

    Think of the mentor as a warning sign: "You're going on an adventure. Also, you're crunchy and taste good with ketchup." You can leave it up to your hero to figure out how those two statements are related (and it's best if he figures it out right before the dragon shows up).
     
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  12. Etheona Frogg

    Etheona Frogg Member

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    The Hero's Journey isn't just a plotting method, it's a philosophy that the stories, legends and myths that persist through cultures all over the world, resonate so deeply because they hold truths for everybody. In the course of life and individuation and psychological development we are each the hero of our own journey and everything that see around us is perceived through our own experience, as the hero. Every hero in a book is us, every mentor is our mentor and every magical ability that was there all along is us learning the great things that we are capable of when we push ourselves beyond our comfort zone.
     

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