1. 354897

    354897 Member

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    multiple isbn's ?

    Discussion in 'Self-Publishing' started by 354897, Oct 22, 2021.

    Q1. I am publishing a book and i want to go on allot of different Print on demand companies like the following maybe more

    KDP, B&N, Kobo, Apple Books, Google Play, Draft2Digital, Smashwords.
    maybe ingram

    if i dont care what it says under the publisher section of the isbn, if i get the amazon free isbn, can i get a bunch of other free isbn's from those other print on demand companies as well. basically going the free route and not paying 125 for a universal isbn.
    some people on the internet seem to think that you are locked into amazon only if you get their free isbn and can not go to other self publish pods at all locked in.


    Question 2, out of curiosity what is the cheapest way to get a legitimate isbn and have it work for me(i dont care what it says on it). other people? i even seen one on a google search for like 18 dollars.

    Q 3 is there any self publishing companies that dont give free isbns
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  2. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    This is bordering (if not outright trampling) on legal issues, and the Internet is not a good place to get legal advice.

    As a non-lawyer, I would say that the first thing you need to do is to read -- and be sure you understand -- the terms of service for ALL of the print-on-demand services you contemplate using. ISBNs are issued to publishers, so if you accept a "free" ISBN from Amazon, Amazon is then listed as the publisher of that book. Logic suggests that this might give them some rights with regard to seeing the exact same book simultaneously being published by a half dozen other publishers.

    As to cheap ISBNs, here's a link to one reseller of bulk ISBNs: [link deleted by moderator]

    Please note the following from that link:

    You are not the publisher, Movement Publishing (the seller of the ISBN) will be the publisher.

    I'm not certain, but I think this is, at best, misleading -- if not an outright lie. All ISBNs indicate the name of the publisher to whom they are assigned. You can print your name or any other "imprint" you want on the title page and on the copyright page, but the ISBN still belongs (is assigned to) Movement Publishing, and I'm pretty certain the Library of Congress and any book database will reflect this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2021
  3. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I'm not going to get drawn into a long discussion here, but just to pick up one thing - ISBN reselling is basically a scam

    these people are buying isbns in bulk from bowker (Or neilsen in the Uk) registering them to themselves and then selling them on even though they can't be reregistered....essentially what you get for your money is exactly the same as you could have got free... except that you may have problems using it on a print on demand site because it isnt registered to you or the site concerned

    The salient points for ISBN are
    a) there is very little need to have an ISBN for ebooks (only for libraries and most library services like overdrive or bibliotecha will assign a free one)

    b) with a print book there are two ways forward - i) if its not important that you are registered as the publisher, you can get a free one via your PoD service, ii)If it is important that you are the registered publisher you need to buy your own from your national distributor... Bowker in the US , Neilsen in the UK (Canadians and french are lucky as their govt provides them free... however non nationals cannot legitimately source those ISBNs)

    If buying your own they are much cheaper per unit if you buy them in bulk, so if you are going to write more books buy the biggest bundle you can afford
     
  4. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    Even if you are doing your own book, if you plan to do more than one format it's cheaper to buy a block of ten (in the U.S.). Each unique format of a book requires its own ISBN, so a paperback version plus Kindle and Nook ebooks accounts for three. If you also want a hardcover edition, that's four ISBNs. From Bowker, one ISBN will cost $125. Three will cost $375. A block of ten costs $295, and that leaves enough numbers to do two or three more books.
     
  5. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    except that there is zero need to put an isbn on any of the ebooks - so you only need one for the print version.
     
  6. montecarlo

    montecarlo Contributor Contributor

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    How does 10 cost less than 3? What dark magic is this?
     
  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Bowker charge a premium for singles and discount for bulk because most of their business is publishers who buy 1000s at a time

    one is $125,
    ten is $295,
    100 is $575
    1000 is $1500

    You can buy greater numbers by negotiation

    As a brit I buy from Nielsen who's pricing structure is similar... 1 for £89, 10 for £164, 100 for £369 and 1000 for £949... i bought 100 when i started out which will probably be enough for my whole career given that i don't use them on ebooks... which means i'm paying £3.69 per isbn instead of £89
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  8. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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  9. montecarlo

    montecarlo Contributor Contributor

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    Ah I was imagining buying 3 was literally an option (aside from 3 transactions of 1). That makes more sense, but it is still a crazy huge drop off in per unit price. I guess it’s a bit like software licenses, but I don’t think I’ve seen one where the aggregate price actually goes down the more you buy. Little strange.
     
  10. 354897

    354897 Member

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    question 1
    would i be able to, without getting in trouble, get many isbn's from many pods for the same paperbook (im only going with 1 paperback now) (I need to find some that is Christian based also)


    i contacted amazon about this and this is what a kdp senior support person said

    "You are welcome to publish your book on other platforms, as long as you use another ISBN and not the free KDP assigned ISBN.

    We do not make your book exclusive to us, you are welcome to publish your book on any other sale channel with your own ISBN or their ISBN. "

    the way i understand it is yes they are you publisher when they sell it but if you go somewhere else then that other place is your publisher also


    Question 2,
    what is the cheapest way to get my own legitimate isbn ( I dont care what it says on it as long as im legal with it), i thought soft moose mentioned before that there are codes or something(if so where do you find those codes or coupons for isbn's) , or is ther any other legitimate company in the us that sells isbn's

    Question 3
    is there any self publishing companies that dont give free isbns
     
  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    these are the same questions you asked up top
    1) yes - but there are only two PoD services that provide ISBNs
    2) no there is only one site per country that sells legit iSBNs- in the US its Bowker
    3) Yes
     
  12. 354897

    354897 Member

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    Q1.the isbn that i can purchase from amazon is this just like buying from bowker or is there some sort of catch with it. can i use this 99 dollar isbn on other pay on demand companies. id like to save some money if this was a good option.

    Q2 so i could go with the free isbns on multiple pods is there any issues with this.(see above email from a senior kdp support person)

    Q3 i thought someone somwhere in one of my previous posts said something about about coupon codes or promotional prices on isbn's from bowker somehow , do you know anything about this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
  13. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    No, an ISBN that you buy from Amazon is being sold by a reseller, who purchased a block of ISBNs from R.R. Bowker. If you purchase an ISBN from someone selling on Amazon (or eBay, or anywhere else other than Bowker), that person or company will be listed as the publisher for whatever book comes out with that ISBN -- you will not be the publisher.

    What ISBN are you going to use when you submit the title to the copyright office? To register your copyright, you have to submit two copies of the "best edition" of the book. If you have half a dozen versions floating around with different ISBNs on all of them -- which one are you going to submit to the Library of Congress copyright office?

    Big soft moose mentioned coupons. That's to get a discount from IngramSpark, it has nothing to do with R.R. Bowker.
     
  14. 354897

    354897 Member

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    amazon them self gives you an option to buy a isbn of your own for 99, not someone else on amazon

    i already submitted copyright and it only requires 1 copy, so thats done. I dont think you have to copyright your isbn

    how do i find the discounts for ingram spark
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
  15. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Actually this is incorrect - if you get an ISBN from amazon/KDP its free - and these are not registered to you. IF you buy an ISBN via the link on the amazon page it goes to Bowker with a discount so you are paying $99 instead of $125... but the purchase is from Bowker not amazon so it is your ISBN, not a resold one


    Theres a lot to unpick here - registration of copyright and submission to the LoC are not the same thing... you can register the copyright without an iSBN or indeed without publishing the book at all

    however the mandatory deposit scheme (section 407) requires those copyright holders publishing in the US to submit two copies of the best edition for the LoC use within three months of publication...

    if you're not the registered publisher (because you're using a free or resold ISBN) then technically you don't have any requirement to submit the books... so therefore if you are submitting you should use the edition that has your own ISBN
     
  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    in regard of discounts for Ingram try google... however complete discounts are much harder to get than they used to be short of joining an organisation like Alli which has free codes for members
     
  17. 354897

    354897 Member

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    I just went through the copyright it required 1 electronic version of my book (and cover)

    Q1 are you saying the 2 book thing is separate of my submitting copyright and its a publisher thing, if I bought my own isbn then I would be required to submit copies(nothing to do with submitting original copyright?)

    Q2 if I do choose to buy a isbn, what can I put under the publisher, can i put my own full name rather than making up some goofy name.

    Q3 but i if i did choose to make a publisher name up is there a place on the internet to see if that name has already been used?

    this is an email from Ingram spark about my question

    Unfortunately, that is not possible. Each title can only be assigned one ISBN per format (paperback, ebook, hardcover). So once you upload your title to KDP with the ISBN, the ISBN will need to stay the same across all platforms ( unless deleted and then uploaded).

    Q4 on amazon do i do the paperaback and ebook in the same account on the kdp.amazon.com login

    Q5 why dont you need an isbn for ebooks(not just kindle but all ebook companies), that email from ingram above seems to imply it

    Q6 im planning on publishing 1 paperback (not hard cover at all),ebook, and whatever else i can get my hands on. how many isbn's do you think i need just 1? is there other things out there that require isbn's besides paperbook,hardcover. I dont plan on writing any more books. I ran accross this when googleing bowker rates. "Many authors create books in three formats: print (PDF), MOBI, and EPUB, which is why it makes financial sense to buy the 10-pack of ISBN numbers." what is mobi and epub and do i need an isbn for those
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
  18. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    You're doing what you always do and asking the same questions over and over again, and without doing even basic research yourself - its tiresome, i'll answer this then i'm done

    Q1: yes per my previous answer mandatory deposit requires all US publishers to submit two copies to the LoC

    Q2: yes

    Q3: no

    Q4: yes

    Q5: you don't need an isbn for ebooks because isbns are for a cataloguing/order books that are sold in bricks and mortar stores..ebooks are not sold in such stores... instead each vendor assigns their own number for their own cataloguing purpose... on amazon thats called an Asin, the other retailers vary

    Q6: Mobi and epub are ebook formats - they don't need iSBNs (mobi for kindle, epub for everything else). You need one isbn for your print copy (assuming you're going to sell to bricks and mortar stores and not just on amazon)
     
  19. 354897

    354897 Member

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    I apologies for that

    but

    do I need to register my made up publisher name officially somewhere else before I apply for the isbn
     
  20. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    No
     

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