Must have a Gripping beginning?

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by bob smith, May 27, 2011.

  1. The-Joker

    The-Joker Contributor Contributor

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    Four characters.
     
  2. bob smith

    bob smith New Member

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    Wow, this is all great input.

    I just don't like this idea of the first sentence, or paragraph, having to be the "holy grail" of all the writing in your book. I tried really hard to make it something that stood out, that said a lot about the story, that would make the reader question what happens next. Instead all felt really forced, cliche, and not fitting of the tone of what I was trying to write. When I read it again, the description of scenery and of a few people camping just felt more natural, and flowed with the rest of the chapters.

    Guess it comes down to just write what feels right and leave publishers and sells to hope and luck?
     
  3. katica

    katica New Member

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    It's not the holy grail of writing. Your ENTIRE NOVEL should be that gripping. In fact, one mistake I made in writing that my Mother pointed out to me when she read it was thinking that I could write a gripping beginning and then that the second chapter could be filled with the boring introductions of characters and descriptions that most people save for the very beginning. I had to make introducing my characters and their setting an exciting thing.
     
  4. Show

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    @Joker: If you successfully grip the reader, it's not a disadvantage. My point is that swinging and missing in the attempt to grip CAN be. Sometimes what's intended to be gripping just isn't.

    I think I can compare. Both are essentially different mediums of expressing a story. Both are supposed to "hook" the viewer/reader with the story. I say both are quite similar in their goals. Maybe comparing the opening lines of a book to the trailer was a poor comparison. The opening seconds of a movie is probably a better comparison.

    I just doesn't work as a RULE. A guideline and a rule strike me as different.

    No. 1: Yeah, I don't know what the reaping is either. Don't particularly care at the moment either. Based on this alone, I wouldn't buy the book. No. 2: I guess it seems "gripping" in definition but I got bored with it by the end of the paragraph. Perhaps they did start with questions. Perhaps that just speaks to my point that questions are often mundane. That's because they've yet to answer the "Why should you care?" question and I just don't care to see the answers to their questions. I'm not gripped.

    It's always an exception. lol Everything's an exception these days. I loved the book but I'd actually call it a bit boring before we got into the gist of things. I agree it shouldn't be boring. But questions alone don't make something interesting, IMO. (This book probably DID ask questions at the start, but they didn't particularly grip me.)

    I've looked at some new authors just this morning and found some mundane openings. lol They probably did ask questions but questions ARE mundane sometimes. That's my point. I am NOT saying start with something mundane. I am saying that starting with questions or going with the trend won't make your story gripping all by itself. And I think swinging and missing can be plenty of a disadvantage.

    A bland description isn't the only alternative to posing questions. Often I find being tossed questions to be the most bland move possible. Those 2 examples you gave just sounded like they were trying too hard to me. Posing questions alone just doesn't equal gripping to me. Why do I care what 'the reaping' is or what is in the building? I'm not gripped.
     
  5. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    I have to say that's a good point. Too many writers run into the problem of being exciting in the beginning (gripping) and then they can't maintain. They just let the quality of their work drop right off the side of the cliff because they think the writer is already engaged, they already bought it, riighht? Well if they did they won't buy anymore, that's for sure.

    While there does need to be a kind of up and down flow of emotion that the reader is experiences there also has to be consistency in maintaining interest. Otherwise they're going to put it down halfway through. This isn't to say we want entire books of explosions either. After you hear "it blew up" for the thirteenth time you're starting to get a little bored of things blowing up right? (I am). So, there's an ebb and flow of action, dialogue, and narration (whomever it is told through) that adds up to give us something awesome (usually empathy for someone or something). Something we WANT to read. Something we care about.

    Now how do you do that? Oh there it is again. Read. I know it's not simple or easy and you're bored (oh no! Find something that DOES interest you then, otherwise I don't know what to say) but it really is the best thing. While there are people out there who can write without being readers they're rare and if it was me I would always wonder how much better I could have been if only I'd read more, studied more, learned more about the craft I (profess to) love.
     
  6. Show

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    ^^^^My craft is telling a story. I don't tie myself to just reading to perfect that craft. I go with what works for me, not with what other people tell me is supposed to work but time and time again fails me. :p I appreciate my craft in it's entirety, not limiting it.

    The story is inside of me. It starts where and when it starts. The best thing I can do is rely it in the most exciting way possible. That may or may not include a first page that poses a bunch of questions. But going out of my way to be gripping right away or feel that my story is now inferior just doesn't serve me. I honestly don't know if my stuff grips you with the first line because I'm more concerned with what is best for my story, which is all that matters when writing my story.
     
  7. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

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    Here are some possible opening sentences:

    1. Guns blazing, Sergeant Steve Savage charged the enemy position, wasting enemy soldiers with each heart-pounding stride.

    2. If Karl Marx and St. Thomas Aquinas had lived at the same time, would they have played chess together, or poker?

    3. The mighty Thor tiptoed into the animal shelter, looking for a kitten to adopt.

    Which of these is most gripping? It depends, I think, on the reader. The reader who likes the novel beginning with sentence 1 would probably be bored with the one beginning with 2. Kids might like the one beginning with 3 - at least, some kids. Personally, I think I'd like to read the one beginning with 2 the most.

    My point is that "gripping" is a matter of opinion.

    How about this one:

    4. The morning sun was warm on the meadow as the larks began singing, raising the dew and beginning to stir the early breeze, as Princess Belinda, bodice throughly ripped, lay in a puddle of horse piss sleeping off another bender.

    That one's fun, but probably dull.
     
  8. Show

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    1. I think I missed a lot with that line. I'll pass until the author gives me what I missed.

    2. Sounds more like the start of an essay. It'd be an essay I might consider reading but a novel length piece? Probably not.

    3. Yes, sounds like a kid's book.

    4. Somebody's covered in horse piss? Hmmm, could be interesting. Not particularly excited but certainly on par with 1-3.

    Now these might very well be interesting books. But if I am judging a book only by it's first line...... nada.
     
  9. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    Yes, it is. It's telling a story that is inside you. Reading teaches you better ways to tell that story. Reading enlightens you and awakens you to new things, makes you see new possibilities. Perhaps it fails you because you expect it to fail. Maybe you go into it being sure that you won't like it. I don't know, but I think that describing reading as "limiting" is quite ridiculous (imo) for a writer to say. Feeling that your story is now inferior because someone else's is better should not be a reason not to read, it should be a reason to study, learn, and aspire to be. If it's not, well that speaks to incredibly deep insecurity (in my opinion).
     
  10. Show

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    You can keep talking about what it does. The evidence just isn't there for me. I read, and I see none of this. I go to the mall or the beach and there I get this stuff. Go figure. :rolleyes:

    I've given reading it's fair shake. I'll read if a story comes into my orbit that interests me. I didn't say reading is "limiting." I said that I don't limit my medium to reading. I'm a storyteller and stories are about life. Besides, since all the stuff in print is chock full of stuff that I'm not supposed to do cause of exceptions or established authors, it's clearly not gonna help me. It's for enjoyment and that's what I use it for. It doesn't improve my writing much. Maybe it works for other people but I know when something isn't working for me. And it doesn't miraculously start working because somebody says it should. If the chicken soup doesn't cure the cold, it doesn't matter who says that it should. Now if you like chicken soup, have some chicken soup. :p
     
  11. The-Joker

    The-Joker Contributor Contributor

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    Again.

    If you liked the premise of the book as indicated by the blurb, then maybe you would be interested to know the answers. These examples are not to convince YOU to read the book. Hunger Games is currently the number one selling book on the kindle store. You've suggested that most of the new author's you've read start of bland without story questions. You said most don't follow this guideline. Here's the current bestselling one at the moment. Shepard is number two. That's the point. These authors are following this particular guideline. Carry on down the list and you'll see that most of them are trying to grip the reader in the first paragraph. So it's nice to say that everything is an exception nowadays, but the facts are in the sales and what the most successful authors are doing.

    I am not saying that is the secret to their success. I'm saying your suggestion that most authors don't pose questions in the first page or that it's not important is incorrect.

    And yes anything in writing can be done incorrectly. Trying to hook the reader with a strong story question can easily come off as forced. I don't think those two examples did. The agents, editors and publishers obviously also didn't think so. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to grip the reader if you can do it correctly. If you do, it will be to your advantage. Always. Story questions if done correctly will always spark a reader's curiosity. That is their very purpose.
     
  12. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    I stand by what I said previously. You said
    Since the rest of that paragraph was talking about reading and it's relationship to your writing and what it does/does not do for you, I took that to mean you were referring to reading being limiting.

    We all use life experience, but there are other things to learn as well. The vast majority of people I think can clearly see the benefits of reading and it's effect on how they write. What they learn. It is clear that you can't, or won't, which strikes me only as interesting oddly enough. When you say you wouldn't continue reading a story that started with ANY of Minstrel's four sentences if you had only that line to go on, well that just strikes me as sad.

    Either way I'm going to hop back off the merry-go-round now, cause this seems rather like arguing with a brick wall.
     
  13. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I don't need an _exciting_ opening, but it does need to be interesting. If an author can't start with something interesting, I have to wonder about his ability to tell a story, because to me a story isn't just a documentary camera running on the events; it involves selection and highlighting what matters and ignoring what doesn't.

    And ideally the opening, however interesting, should be relevant to the main story. The reader doesn't yet know what's relevant and what isn't, but once the main plot starts, I think that he's going to make some negative judgements if too many important and interesting things from the opening turn out to have no meaning to the main storyline.

    For example, I once read a friend's fantasy story that started out with a wagon train of travellers on their way to somewhere. It did a fine job of presenting those travellers and making the reader care about them and their goals and particularly their leader. Then the travellers were attacked by road bandits and rescued by a man that turned out to be The Hero Protagonist, and the story followed The Hero Protagonist down the road and the travellers were never to be heard from again. I considered this to be a mistake.

    Some semi-random examples of openings:

    I just grabbed a book that I like, not a widely-known masterpiece, just an enjoyable mystery. (_The Convivial Codfish_ by Charlotte MacLeod) It starts:

    Exalted Chowderhead Jeremy Kelling, of the Beacon Hill Kellings, gazed around the luncheon table at his eighteen Comrades of the Convivial Codfish. Wineglass raised, he proposed the Ancient and Time-Honored Toast:

    'Here's to us!'

    'And to hell with the rest of 'em,' roared the Comrades in one great voice.


    This has no guns, no violence, no exploding helicoptors. But it's interesting. It immediately signals the often-goofy mood of the story. It doesn't start with Jeremy getting up that morning or putting on his suit for the dinner, it starts with a (to me) engaging moment. And it's a moment that's quite important to Jeremy; he's waited for years to become the Exalted Chowderhead. And that luncheon is the beginning of the main plot - something gets stolen, and that leads to something else, and that leads to something else, and eventually somebody dies.

    Or, look at _Final Curtain_, by Ngaio Marsh. It starts with:

    'Considered severally,' said Troy, coming angrily into the studio, 'a carbuncle, a month's furlough and a husband returning from the antipodes don't seem like the ingredients for a hell-brew. Collectively, they amount to precisely that.'

    Again, no explosions or guns, but on the other hand, Troy's not combing her hair or eating her oatmeal; she's angry and expressing herself. And the issues that she's ranting about shape the rest of the plot - she's distracted about her husband's impending arrival, and so she takes on a job that she might otherwise have refused in order to fill the time, and then we're launched on the plot.

    _An Episode of Sparrows_, by Rumer Godden, starts with:

    The Garden Committee had met to discuss the earth; not the whole earth, the terrestrial globe, but the bit of it that had been stolen from the Gardens in the Square.

    The bit of stolen earth is an entry into the most important plot in the book. And the meeting about it is quiet and low-key, but without announcing that it's doing so it presents many of the personalities and conflicts that drive the story. The next paragraph includes the sentence:

    'And she won't let us have wallflowers, says they're common. I like wallflowers," said the Admiral, but behind Angela's back; when she was present he deferred to her, as did Mr. Donaldson; Lucas looked only at her; it was like a court round the queen, thought Olivia.

    That sentence sets up a world of conflict. In the second paragraph, we already have a clear pointer to Olivia's greatest fear and her greatest accomplishment in the book.

    I can't find _The Mirror Crack'd_, by Agatha Christie, right now, but it starts with an incredibly low-key opening; I believe that it does start with Miss Marple waking up. She wakes up, she talks to her maid, she knits, she looks out the window, she has tea.

    Appreciating this opening as being interesting requires some context. I think that the average Agatha Christie reader, at this point, is familiar with and fond of Miss Marple from previous books, so they _care_ about her. They care that she's aging, so the fact that she knits to loosen her arthritic fingers matters to them. They care about how much she loves her garden, so they're dismayed along with her when she gazes outside and sees what the gardener's made of it now that she's too old to do much gardening herself.

    They're interested in the fact that Miss Marple now has a very modern, casual girl for a housemaid, and pleased that Miss Marple is able to adjust to this new informality with good humor. Heck, they care that Miss Marple put away her good china and bought a cheaper set because the modern girl can't be expected to wash the good china with the care required to avoid damaging it.

    So this is a very low-key opening, one that might have a reader unfamiliar wih Agatha Christie shouting, "Just shoot somebody already!" But in context, to the most likely reader, this is very interesting and important stuff.

    So all of this is just to explain what I mean when I say that an opening doesn't need to be exciting, but it needs to be interesting and relevant. Now, a brand new author trying to break into being published may _also need to be exciting, or at least to have a quicker payoff on the promise of "interesting." Thoroughly low-key may have to wait for the second book, or later.

    ChickenFreak
     
  14. The-Joker

    The-Joker Contributor Contributor

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    First lines are great and should be carefully constructed but Show has a point about it being unfair to judge a book solely by that. I say first paragraphs would work better at illustrating any further points. I want to see a first paragraph (at least 5 sentences) that doesn't ask any story questions. Whether those questions are interesting is up to the individual of course.

    Lol. I summon the OP to post his/her first paragraph. Let judgement be passed.
     
  15. katica

    katica New Member

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    You know, this argument is ridiculous. The word "gripping" just means "interesting" and "draws you in" and basically the people arguing against it are saying, "I don't find interesting beginnings interesting!" Which is kind of self-refuting.

    And to tell people not to write interesting beginnings is even worse. XD Make it not interesting, that's what people find interesting! And that's what most authors do. Yea, that makes no sense.

    Are you guys trying to argue that its better to start with description because I'm not sure what is being argued here. A supposed better way of beginning novels hasn't been presented and while our examples keep being refuted, they aren't showing us anything that they deem better.

    I mean, we've stated that gripping doesn't necessarily mean "action" or always the same thing all the time, so I don't see why people are arguing to tell you the truth.
     
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  16. Show

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    I don't base choices on what the vast majority do. I see what works for me and what is just something to do. And the reason I said I wouldn't read those 4 is because they failed to grip me. Of course if I liked the premises, I'd continue reading. I was merely demonstrating that if one wants to say that people will stop reading if the first line wasn't especially gripping, then I'd have no reason to continue reading. That was my point. You seem to have missed my point.

    I also am able to see what reading does for my writing. I just don't see the benefits others get. Sonetimes something just doesn't do for you what it does for others. I know there is more than life experience, but I just don't see that more as being reading for me. I am not discouraging it. I am just saying that it's merely an enjoyment for me when I want to read. Its not something that really does anything mire to help me than anything else. I may not know everything but I do know me and what does and doesn't help me. I should at least be given that.
     
  17. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    You may be given anything you like. I already said it's my opinion and what I think, you're entitled to yours as well. I really just don't have the energy today. Meh.

    Again. This time permanently in relation to this.

     
  18. The-Joker

    The-Joker Contributor Contributor

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    Stop it Trish. You're going to get this thread closed.:p

    Can't go around calling people brick walls. Ah, stop typing. You said "permanently!":D
     
  19. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

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    From my first post in this thread, I used the word "interesting". That doesn't necessarily mean gripping to a lot of people. Nobody is arguing that the beginning should be dull; why would they? I'm just saying that the first line doesn't have to be the most amazing sentence ever written. I'm making two points: first, that what is gripping to one reader might me utterly boring to another; and second, that most serious readers won't judge a whole book based on the first sentence - they'll have enough patience to read a little further to see if the book is worthwhile.

    Honestly, if you put down a book because the first sentence doesn't grab you, then there's probably no help for you.
     
  20. Show

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    ^^^^This! :D Kind of what I'm saying in a nutshell. lol


    :p

    Let me respond to something else said that I didn't see yet. Hmmm.

    @Katica: It's not that I don't find interesting beginnings to be interesting. It's that I don't find a beginning to be interesting just because somebody tells me that it is. And it's not that I am saying to not write an interesting beginning. It's that everyone's idea of what constitutes an interesting beginning differs, so much so, that advising somebody to write an interesting beginning isn't really telling them anything at all.

    You seem to be misunderstanding the argument. People are specifically saying that a specific thing is a recipe for an interesting beginning. It's not that there is something BETTER out there as much as the level of interest of anything being subjective. "Most authors do it this way." What way? The idea of starting off with something interesting just seems to be bordering on non-advice to me. One could start off with a chase scene that bores one person and excites another. They could start off by describing a restaurant that creates a feeling of nostalgia that draws somebody else in and turns somebody else away. Generally speaking, "making your opening interesting" just isn't all that helpful, IMO. "Present questions on your first page." That's interesting? Okaaayyyy. Yeah, just seeing the entire idea to be kind of unhelpful. It seems like in the quest to avoid the mundane, it's very easy to just crash right into it.
     
  21. Yoshiko

    Yoshiko Contributor Contributor

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    It's not a matter of needing to be gripped by the first sentence, but rather the opening has to be interesting enough to make it worth turning that page to read on. If something isn't interesting then why would someone want to read on? Why give a chance to a novel that doesn't seem exciting when there are a million and one other things we could be doing? I don't have the time to do everything I want to in a day and I'm certainly not going to waste hours on a book that doesn't hook me from the opening page; I'd rather read a book that indicates right from the beginning that it's going to be a good read. (However, this links to what I've said below...)


    Absolutely! The opening, for me, highlights the rest of the book. If nothing sticks out to me then I won't read on. It doesn't need to be excitement and drama - even just a brilliant way of thinking and the writer's style for the opening scene is enough to pull me in.

    I just went upstairs and checked half a dozen of the books I've read in the past year for their opening lines. They all start off with something that makes me want to continue reading. The following novels I read last summer~autumn and they stuck out to me:

    " 'Why don't you find yourself a new wife, Pops?' " - Audition by Ryu Murakami.
    I wouldn't say it's exciting but I read on because this question (asked by the protagonist's son) directly relates to what was promised in the blurb. There was no time taken to set the scene or introduce the characters before the main subject in the novel was approached: it was introduced straight-away. I'm much more likely to read a book if it doesn't require eight chapters of set-up to get to the point. However, at the same time the book wasn't all that fast-paced. The last third/quarter of it was amazing but the rest was building towards it. However, I found it interesting because the plot felt like it could get better - and it did.​

    Actually, all six of his books that I've read have started off interesting; Audition was the first of his books I read. One opened with a man wanting to hurt his baby; another about a baby being abandoned in a coin locker. (And, btw, if you haven't seen the film version of Audition and happen to come across it I wouldn't recommend it! It's a dreadful film but an interesting book.)

    "When I meet a man, I catch myself wondering what our child would look like if we were to make a baby." - Grotesque by Natsuo Kirino.
    I found this to be an awkward opening. I bought it expecting a psychological thriller novel and it opened in a way that made me wonder if I was about to dive headfirst into a chick flick. It did turn out to be a thriller, and the MC did bug me for a little while, but she turned out to be one of the strongest female protagonists I've ever read about. She renamed nameless from start to finish, but I loved this novel - it's one of my favourites. To think it started off with this line... it instantly set-up my opinion of her but the following chapters later broke my first opinion down and replaced it with something new. ​

    The author has written other brilliant books too. I'd recommend Out to all horror fans.

    "She'd had it once, long ago -- the grated bulb of some plant, wrapped in toasted seaweed and deep-fried in oil -- and enjoyed it." - The Dark Room by Junnosuke Yoshiyuki.
    This doesn't sound exciting to me but it was enough to pull me in. I instantly wondered what type of food he might be talking about. I don't think he ever did name it, rather, he used this as a starting point to talk about the passage of time (as he'd read about it in an essay fifty years prior to the novel's opening). This is actually an erotic novel but you wouldn't assume that from the opening, right? Unlike my first example it didn't dive straight into the point of the novel, but at the same time it interested me. I'm not sure if it's the sort of opening that would interest everyone but it personally made me want to keep reading. ​

    The opening to the autobiography I'm currently reading is: "When I was a little boy I wanted to be like Shirley Bassey." - Take It Like A Man by Boy George. It then went into a description of him dancing around the room. Comedy, that feels real rather than forced, in the opening will often be enough to make me read a chapter or two of a book. It's a matter of whether or not the author can live up to the opening. Plus, pop culture references will almost always draw me in. If there's a clever joke and/or pop culture reference that I can understand then I will keep reading.
     
  22. Show

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    And my point is that "interesting" is all subjective. I could write something that grabs these people from the first page, and turns these other people off. Just like the stuff that people've presented as being gripping does absolutely NOTHING for me. Trying to be "interesting" just seems to be aiming to miss. (If the story itself is really that dull, you might not even finish it.) If you got a story to tell, write the stinking story to the best of your ability, revise it like crazy, and hope people like it. You'll never write something that's interesting to everybody. To somebody, it's going to be dull and that person isn't going to care that you made it "interesting."

    Everyone can present openings that make THEM want to read more. But that doesn't mean it makes everybody want to read more. Likewise, just because an opening doesn't make YOU want to read more, doesn't mean it won't make somebody else want to read more. So it seems making your opening something that would make people want to read more just doesn't mean all that much.
     
  23. The-Joker

    The-Joker Contributor Contributor

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    But also using the blanket statement that one reader's mesmerizing is another reader's mundane to refute everyone else's attempts to show how certain openings were presented in an interesting way is also a bit of non-advice and doesn't really help the OP in any way.

    Going back to the roots. The OP asked something about starting with three guys camping or something, and whether that could be kept as an opening even though it's slow. So if we use your advice one might say, well it could be interesting to campers, so even if they don't do anything but set up tents and start a campfire there still might be somebody who finds it interesting, so just go with it. I don't think so.

    'Presenting questions on your first page' isn't some vague concept that can't really be applied. It can be.

    The water bottles sloshed inside Jason's backpack as he walked with David beneath the lush canopy of the forest. The eastern woods were always perfect for camping this time of the year and the brothers were on their way to pitch the tent at the central clearing. Jason heard the soft babble of the stream and knew they were close. And it was about time. His legs ached and the backback grew heavier with each step.

    Perhaps there are some questions here but whatever they are they're weak. This is pretty boring to me. I'm sure most people would agree. This could be a lot more interesting if the reader had something more tangible to wonder about. And I don't think it's too much to ask for you to figure out a way to incorporate a better story question into the paragraph. I don't think the advice is unhelpful at all, in light of the fact that many writers could end up producing an opener like that.
     
  24. Show

    Show Contributor Contributor

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    My advice to the OP is simple. I ain't giving the OP advice when I am pointing out that what is gripping isn't universally accepted.

    If the campers get their tents set up in the first paragraph, then I don't see what the problem is. We'd need to see an actual version of the OP's camper opening to really give him advice. (You are also misrepresenting my advice, BTW. ;) ) All I'm saying is that nothing is going to be universally interesting and trying too hard to have some extraordinary beginning can backfire. (I also noticed that the OP seems to treat the beginning more as opening chapters and not as just the first few lines.)

    That paragraph you presented doesn't seem particularly interesting by itself but doesn't seem to turn me off any more than any of the openings everyone else presented as better.

    The OP outright stated that they don't feel right jumping right into action. Reason enough right there to not do it. Yes, three campers can easily work for a good opening. I can see a good fifteen ways off the top of my head to start a story that way, and I hate camping. If I considered it more, I'd likely think of even more. So I don't see why the camping part needs to be thrown out.
     
  25. Yoshiko

    Yoshiko Contributor Contributor

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    Had you explained that already? From the way you've written it I get the feeling you feel you've said it before. If so then I'm sorry I missed it, because I completely agree with you.
     

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