Mythology Inclusion vs Appropriation

Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by ManOrAstroMan, Jun 9, 2016.

  1. Mumble Bee

    Mumble Bee Keep writing. Contributor

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    We'll just say our is an alt history of his alt history.
    Sure, we'll use the same names, but we should still be able to do it.. right?

    If that doesn't work we always have the American Civil War /w Dragons

    Now that i think about it someone could create an entire publishing company called
    /W Dragons

    They'd literally never run out of material.
     
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  2. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    The idea itself isn't protectable, so if you want to write the American Revolution with dragons, go for it :)
     
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  3. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    The company slogan would be: Everything's better /W Dragons.

    And it'd be truth in advertising.
     
  4. Mumble Bee

    Mumble Bee Keep writing. Contributor

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    Everything eh? Glad ya think so, because you're in charge of our romance catalog.
     
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  5. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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  6. ManOrAstroMan

    ManOrAstroMan Magical Space Detective Contributor

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    Here's a more specific example:
    The Naga. It's fairly familiar to a lot of fantasy fans, however, they are supernatural beings from Hinduism, am actively observed faith. Should they be included as a denizen of Faerie? Or passed by as an important cultural item?
     
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  7. ManOrAstroMan

    ManOrAstroMan Magical Space Detective Contributor

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    My life would be so much better with dragons. One of my managers at work actually agrees so strongly she wants to be addressed as "Khaleesi"
     
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  8. Mumble Bee

    Mumble Bee Keep writing. Contributor

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    Three things:
    1. I can't believe this exists
    2. It's terrifying how fast you found it.
    3. After a little bit of digging... yeah, I'd totally read that.

    My bad, I completely forgot this was about you and not romancing dragons.

    I think that ignoring something due to its importance is the opposite of what you should do.
     
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  9. ManOrAstroMan

    ManOrAstroMan Magical Space Detective Contributor

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    When I say "passed by" I mean it in the sense of, "no, I'm not going to include this religious figure in my world of pixies and water nymphs, much the same way I'm not including the angels and demons of Christianity."
    True, my story largely centers on humans "mutated" into the semblance of fae beings by faerie magic, while the original fae are mostly an offstage presence, so a bit of haziness could be justified. And, I do have a character remark that a favorite game of the fae was to step into the roles of ancient gods.
    "Wait, you mean Zeus, Poseidon, all those guys--they were really Fae?"
    "Well, it's more accurate to say there were Fae who enjoyed hijacking a faith for profit. Like... cosmic identity theft."
     
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  10. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    They're so commonly used it strikes me as silly not to include one for cultural reasons. Not including them because they're fairly common is another issue.
     
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  11. Nicole-tan

    Nicole-tan Member

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    To be honest, I don't see why appropriation matters. It's your story, use it how you will.
     
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  12. Kingtype

    Kingtype Banned Contributor

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    Cocoa Cola is some delcious corrosion remover though.

    Most of all with pizza. Yummmm, MAN! Give someone a Cocoa Cola and piece of pizza for lunch and appropriation won't even be a worry to them. They'll turn as jolly as Santa Claus about any subject. I love me some pizza and cola lunch.
     
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  13. Auger

    Auger Member

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    Culture is public domain. Interpret it as loosely as you want without fear of whatever.
     
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  14. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    That sums it up for me. Go to town on the ancient Greek and Roman gods, but not Krishna or Buddha.
     
  15. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Fear of being an asshole? Does that count as fear?

    "Public domain" a legal term - I don't think anyone's saying cultural appropriation is illegal. But there are lots of things that are both perfectly legal and completely disrespectful. I'd like to avoid as many of those things as I can, unless I'm trying to show disrespect.
     
  16. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    Mm hm. I struggle with the attitude I often see on writing forums: "Write whatever you want and who cares if it offends! It's art!"
     
  17. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    Also Supernatural is very disrespectful because it utterly condescends other religions than Christianity (conincidentally, the most popular amongst a white American audience, and a belief of multiple of the writers and actors *cough, cough) That's far more important to me. because it's the hardest thing to defend as just an interesting creative choice.
     
  18. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    The "naga" we often see are a hybrid of multiple snake being concepts including Naga, Lamia and others, butchered beyond recognition. They don't count as real mythology. They're their own thing.
     
  19. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    Yeah, but this is what leads to my insatiable desire to kill Greek mythology writers. So many things turn Hades into a devil figure despite the fact that, while a character capable of some serious bad things, there is more to him than this and his central theme is tragedy. But, of course, Western interpretations of "pagans" and heavily influenced by the desire of the early establishing records being Christianizing. Always looking for parallels to make. And ruining complicated characters like Set and Loki by making them like the majority of Bible characters- boring.
     
  20. Mumble Bee

    Mumble Bee Keep writing. Contributor

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    Now this may sound like i'm recycling the argument I used back when the confederate flag was a hot topic... and I am.

    Do you have the right to fly that flag? write whatever you want? Yes.
    But before you do, at least try to understand what flying it your writing means.
    Doing writing something offensive isn't inherently wrong, but making a political statement writing without knowing what you're saying? That's a party foul.
     
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  21. ManOrAstroMan

    ManOrAstroMan Magical Space Detective Contributor

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    Christianity isn't immune to the Supernatural effect. It maybe hasn't been treated so poorly as other faiths, but it's still been Frankensteined into something completely unlike the real thing.
    As far as Hades goes, I think it's more his role as god of death/the underworld that gets him cast as a villain, despite the fact that he was probably one of the least assholeish of the Greek pantheon. Hel, I think, gets treated more unfairly than Loki, but I can't really comment on Set, as I'm a little vague on Egyptian mythology.
    Does anyone know of any good, verifiable sites or books where I can look for information? Most of what I've found online is either VERY vague, or is almost a direct copy-paste of Wikipedia articles, which are a little suspect by nature.
     
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  22. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    So Herman Hesse, Nobel and Goethe Prize winning author, shouldn't have written his classic novel Siddhartha? The title character isn't Buddha, but Buddha is in it, and Hesse plays around with Buddhism and Hinduism both, and as you might guess from his name he was German/Swiss.
     
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  23. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    Look up Norse Mythology and you might find one of multiple sites by Norse mythology professors setting things straight.
    As for my commentary on Hades, well, how do they decide who to demonize? Keep in mind most of these cultures were exposed, often quite successfully, to Christianity and slow Christian conversion. I wasn't just talking recently, I mean ancient records by monks.
    As for Set, well he's your jealous uncle villain, except he also plays a vital role in fighting Apophis, the serpent of chaos. And he is often associated with freedom and necessary destruction. (And even Apophis a necessary balancing force, despite being wildly destructive)
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  24. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Roger Zelazny's Hugo-winning novel Lord of Light would be right out, no question :)
     
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  25. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    Just like on the previous page with @izzybot, you're confusing my view with an absolute. I wouldn't write a novel like Siddhartha (even if I could).
     
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