Excellent. There should be far more to school than just flooding students with information. Information can be found anywhere these days. Real life is largely based on human interaction, and today schools don't offer a good environment that encourages openmindedness, tolerance, respect, consideration, and all those other things that are important to life. School today looks more like a factory designed to pump out work force.
I graduated from an American high school back in 1967. I know things have changed a LOT since then, but I have been interested in the differences between my education in the USA and the experiences of my age-peers here in Britain. I actually loved going to school. I got good grades ...not top grades, but good enough for University, which I loved even more because I was able to concentrate on the subjects I liked and dump the ones I didn't. However, in grade school and high school I received a solid grounding in all of them. I think that's the point, really. You need a certain facility in all basic subjects if you're not going to struggle later on in life. (Math-wizzes who can't string sentences together in a coherent fashion are going to struggle when they go to apply for jobs. Somebody who is very good with English but who can't balance their personal budget or make change while shopping will ALSO struggle.) One of the things that has struck me is how 'social' our American grade school and high school experiences were. This is maybe why so many Americans look back on their school days with a great deal of affection, and why high school reunions are so popular over there. For the most part our schools were integrated, and certainly coeducational. If you missed school, you missed a large part of your social life, no matter what level of scholarship you were able to attain. Vocational education and pre-university education were offered side by side, in the same building, sometimes even in the same classrooms. You met your boyfriends and girlfriends at school, attended school-related football and basketball games (the whole school got caught up in these!) on weekends, went to school-sponsored dances in the high school gyms at weekends as well. (See American Graffiti for what that was like!) One of the MAIN differences as well, was that our final 'grades' at the end of the year were not based on a single exam. It was based on your accumulated grades, from essays, tests, quizzes, projects, etc. So it wasn't a huge make-or-break situation. Consequently a lot less stressful. And even if you did mess up and get a bad grade, there were many opportunities to 'make up' the grade later on, and get it changed. So, the compulsion to cheat was probably not very high. Most 'cheaters' were people who just couldn't be bothered studying. And these people would cheat no matter what ...online or not. If I was making any one change to the educational system here in the UK, it would be to remove the 'exam' system altogether. I hate the way kids are traumatised by the experience, and may also miss out on a chance at University because they had a bad exam day, or whatever. And of course, this means their course work is structured towards 'passing the exam' rather than actually learning. I'd like to see standards set high, but allow more leeway in how these standards are reached. Sorry if this has wandered even further from the OP's question. I suppose to answer it, NO I have never helped somebody else to cheat! Nor have I ever cheated myself. I was never put in a make-or-break situation, so was never tempted, not even in the subjects I was 'bad' at. .................. By the way, I'm not saying American schools are superior or turn out superior students! In fact sometimes I'm appalled at how standards have dropped, and I know my parents were appalled at how standards had dropped since 'their day.' The key is making sure basic standards are reached. Don't ever 'pass' a student who hasn't actually achieved the course standard. This just downgrades the whole system, and can happen within a single generation. (Students who don't know their subjects then become teachers themselves—yikes!) Just give them many, varied chances to attain that standard. They are young people, who haven't fully matured yet, and may make lots of mistakes at this stage.
My entire point is that math is not about applying it. Sure, it can be applied, but that's not what the subject is about. Please try to understand me. In art class, one can certainly apply a lot of it when painting a picket fence or a wall, but that's not why we have art class. You don't sit and drill all kinds of shades of colors, all the different types of papers, brushes and other painting tools in art class; they're mentioned once in a while, but you're not expected to memorize them. In music class, you're not expected to memorize a plethora of modes, scales, different types of chords and playing techniques or different ways of building an instrument, Music and art classes focus on appreciating and just doing the art forms themselves. Why is math so different? Used creatively, math can be very fun, rewarding and useful in that it will greatly improve your ability to understand new concepts, even abstract ones (because few things are as abstract as mathematics), it will help you analyze problems and decompose them into smaller, easier problems, and it will overall improve logical thinking and reasoning. I'm not saying routine exercises are pointless, I'm saying there is far more to math than that and that those parts are both more fun and more useful - in the abstract sense. Anyway, I don't want to steer this towards a discussion about mathematics. My point is that school environments today emphasizes the wrong things, and this leads to students who become less interested in education. EDIT: jannert, I know there are many who despise high school, and one can't turn a blind side to the ruthless bullying that goes on from day one in elementary school to graduation day in high school. But that aside, you're certainly on to something concerning exams. My experience is that schools emphasize strongly accumulation of knowledge and the passing of exams, and not nearly as much about personal growth and actual understanding as should be. The problem must naturally lie in the mindset of school itself - everything else is a consequence of that mindset, including my example of "bad mathematics" in school. I can't help but feel that those who are in charge with the shape of the educational system do not have the student's best interests in mind.
I did not even expect there will be so many people who actually care. Yes, this is definitely a problem for our society. Everything can be bought. You say that it's parent's problem. Unfortunately, it is sometimes pretty difficult to understand that there is a problem. Do you sit and watch your kid doing home assignment? Well only when they are not too little. But we want our kids to be responsible and independent, so we give them this freedom....And as a result to spend all of their pocket money on ordering papers which they could easily write with putting a little bit of extra effort.
Orihalcon, I guess I don't understand what your hang-up with math is. I answered your question but I'll do it again - I enjoyed math, my son enjoyed math, basic math is used everyday by everyone unless they're totally dependent on a calculator (which is really sad, IMO). At any rate, school isn't there to entertain students, and depending on the student, they will either be bored to death or totally involved in various subjects. Sometimes they'll have bad teachers, sometimes they'll have good teachers. Sometimes they'll succeed despite the school, sometimes they'll fail because they're just plain lazy. The school still has very little to do with whether a student will cheat - knowing the difference between right and wrong, having enough pride to do your own work - that all starts in the home.
Let me ask again: what do you think most people think about math, and why do you think that is? I've already stated that you don't know what math really is, so for you to say that math is fun is like someone - whose music classes consisted of only music theory and never listening to music or playing an instrument - saying they enjoy music. My beef with math education is that it's far from what math really is. I thought I made this clear, but I guess I was mistaken. Calculus, trigonometry and algebra is used by the tiniest fraction of people outside of school. My beef is with misplaced emphasis, the areas that are treated and the way they are taught. Cheating is dishonesty and therefore wrong. Agreed. However, the bigotry of a dishonest authority that demands honesty from those subject to that authority is, to me, appalling. The system is rife with hypocrisy and flaws. Your sentiment is to neither acknowledge nor address the shortcomings of the school system, and it is this sentiment that leads to people cheating and a hindrance to the progress of society. As has been said before, the school system is designed for students to get good grades rather than ensuring a proper education. I've given many other arguments, few of which you have addressed. Until you do so, I'm going to refrain from continuing arguing with you because I've laid out my arguments and hypotheses, and for the discussion between us to continue, you'll need to acknowledge them. Like I said, convince me that calculus, trigonometry and algebra are all required to be learnt by a student, and you've convinced me that the authority of the school system is not to be questioned. The keyword here is required.
Well, then there's no point in exposing my ignorance any further, is there? Or are you just waiting for me to agree with you and then I'll know what math is? Anyone else hear the merry-go-round music?
No, you're absolutely right, that was an error on my part. If you're interested, this article does a great job of explanaining my point regarding mathematics. It's 25 pages long, but the first 5 pages will suffice. I meant to post this earlier, but I forgot to do that. I apologize.
Hey People, Stop fighting. The Original point is missed already. In any case I think there is only one conclusion: online services are a big temptation for our lazy kids. Well, let's face it, for us as well. I don’t know maybe we are degrading, maybe not. One thing is for sure: we need to use our own brains more often to keep on developing all the time. Thanx a lot for sharing your thoughts!
