Yes, usually because I'm stuck at a point where I have to get my character out of trouble and don't want a deus ex machina answer. I'm a long-term pantser, but decided to change genres to cozy mystery. I wrote an outline. I wrote the book, but went off outline. Weirdly, I am cutting more out of this story than when I pantsed...maybe because I'm trying to be a perfectionist. 40 pages cut so far... What is your genre? Maybe you need to throw something unusual at your character. Maybe add another character with associated problems?
I'm a hardcore outliner, to the point where I literally can't just make stuff up without mentally plotting the whole story. I too find the stuff between the beginning and the end to be the trickiest. Middle parts are just hard.
I'll be blunt, I can't get panting to work. I've repeatedly got stuck in the middle. I write outlines because of that.
Hi, Yes I am pure pantster. And yes I have the same problem. You write like buggery, all fired up, and then suddenly you run out of steam or don't know where things are going. That's one of the downsides of being a pantster. And to emphasize how downsided it can be I've got probably three hundred unfinished novels on my computer - some almost at the end! It's frustrating. But it's the way it is. To explain, I tried plotting once - and it was wonderful. I wrote up a roughly ten page outline, worked out all the names and details, and thought to myself - this will be a great book! Then I started writing it. By the end of the first page I'd gone so far off track, that I had to take my plot, metaphorically shred it, and write an entirely new one - then carry on. Unfortunately I went off plot by page two and had to rewrite the plot again! I did that a couple more times before I gave up. It's not really a choice. You write how you write and you plot as much or as little as you do. And you find what works for you. Oh and since someone said before that they didn't like the term "pantster" the more formal sounding one is "discovery writer" - but I'm a happy pantster! Cheers, Greg.
Just as a suggestion, maybe consider interweaving a few of your stories. Gets you "farther in" and might trigger a conclusion.
Yes. All the time. Usually because I wrote myself or my characters into a problem I didn't know how to solve. I have a few fixes. 1) Think about what the characters are doing and what should happen next while you're away from the computer: driving, walking, etc. 2) I am doing this right now. I wrote 120 pages and realized that I was not only stuck, but had missing scenes. (Where I am at 120 pages should really be closer to the end of the book). I printed the whole thing, took sticky notes and read the manuscript so far, writing notes such as "Insert scene with red herring to J." or "Add setting description." 3) Characters need someone to interact with. Sometimes I get stuck when sending a character off alone. If this is the case, create someone to talk to the character. 4) Don't talk about your book to anyone too soon. I've killed a couple of books by talking about them. 5) Commit to whichever half-finished story you like best. Make notes about where you can go and finish the book. Hope that helps
Yep, I always get stuck in the middle because even though I'm a pantser, I tend to have a general idea of how my story starts, how it ends, and key events strewn throughout. The beginning is always easy to "pants" because I'm spending time introducing a reader to the world and characters, but the middle is so hard because I have to connect the key scenes together without making it boring filler. Can't rush through the story, either.
You dont.... They just fall into place Or in some cases.... You keep trying endings out until one sticks. One short story id been trying for years to get published but the ending just kept falling flat. So i kept re working the ending before i fell on something that fit all characters.... And it got published. But in all honesty... There is no "perfect ending" just a satisfactory conclusion to the story you have in place. And that can happen organically
- the ending might be how the story idea first came to me, and I pants toward it - it might an event that happens naturally as the story unfolds, but which ends the story neatly - and I quit while I'm ahead - pantsing and plotting call for different editing - everyone should rewrite endings and beginnings, but in my case I suspect pantsing forces further-reaching changes and more full rewrites - "perfect" may mean different things. The end of a story is where all the characters' arcs are tied-up - but it's also a tone, or a headspace we've brought the reader to. Pantsing perhaps seeks tone more than tie-up. - I like absurd endings - where a story has made its point and can confidently take it to an extreme beyond the story's established logic. That's not a factor of pantsing vs. plotting - but if I've decided which way I function I might be more able to find endings that are weird and wonderful
Thank you for your replies. I realise what my problem is. I have been a pantser, and I have been for a while during the book I am writing now. In my mind I feel I am closer towards the ending. Now I am trying to wind up the story, but not able to conclude how the ending should be. Then, I started outlining whatever I have wrote till now, to see if that would give me an idea. But no luck. I always hoped for a great payback from the hero, and a highly satisfying climax. For that to happen I should have planted the seed here and there during the early chapters, but as a pantser, I didn't really think of that. Now closer to the ending, I regret I should have done proper outlining.
I quote that out-of-context, so apologies if it now reads like something from a show-trial Pantsing and Plotting aren't absolute - no-one is simply either. But as popular phantoms they're well-defined, as being diametrically-opposed. Pantsers shouldn't do outlining - at least not the type of outlining that defines Plotters in contrast to them If (e.g.) 60k words have been pantsed, that might be a good exercise ahead of a plotted re-write, but pantsing the rest of the way first might be a better exercise And there is a corresponding problem: the plotter who nicely rounds up all their story-arcs only to find it's boring to read The way you write is what it is - and it has to stretch not only to a certain calibre to be published, but to a certain endurance to draft and finish a novel at all One of the reasons novels are 80k long is to weed out the weak: these are marathons Introducing an outlining stage to the creative process won't overnight change someone from being a pantser to a plotter - creative habits die hard But more importantly, the stages and disciplines we adopt for ourselves often only have a superficial effect on our output. It annoys me when the creative writing industry pretends anyone can become anything if they pay. Any second draft or second attempt will be better - and it might be new adopted tactics or it might be neural pathways forming deep in the skull, or (shudder) aging. Lastly, and this isn't necessarily for the OP but others passing - beware of displacement activity. Things like re-writing the whole story in a particular software tool, or on separate pieces of paper per character - so that it feels like progress whilst hiding being stuck.
Have you tried brainstorming possible endings, with the idea in mind that any good ending might require reworking parts of the story?
Thank you for your reply. Especially this line! This advice cannot come in a better time. This is exactly what I was about to do. I was thinking to buy a writing software, or try Story grid like J.K Rowling, then may be something will pop up. I did Story Grid for one of the stories, and it didn't change my position anyway.
I'm a half-way patser and half-way planner. So I hope I can offer some useful advice for the OP's problem. My advice would simply be to jump over the part where you get stuck and continue after it from where you've got a clue where the story is going. Then you can go back and fill things in. Example Say I have a written a story which looks in a summery like this: "Norse Warrior wants to enter King of Uppland's retinue. Norse Warrior trains with his old uncle as a mentor and goes viking for two years. Norse Warrior approach the king..." And I'm stuck. But rather than sitting and agonizing over what shall come next I just keep writing, like: "Norse Warrior goes with his king on a raid of revenge to Norway to avenge the king's murdered sons." And I continue from there until I know what to fill in the earlier blank space with. I speak as someone who has seen a fair few stories get abandoned because I lost momentum and grind to a halt when I couldn't decide what the next scene would be like. So my advice is to keep the momemtum of writing up and don't get trapped in one swamp or another as you write.
This is a lot like what I do. At first I write up a broad loose summary of the story (rather than an outline). I might develop this farther in stages to flesh out some things. Then when I'm ready to tackle a scene, unless I already know what I want to write, I'll do a synopsis of the scene in more detail than my big outline. At that point I might have to think it through for a while (often I'll away go from the writing desk for that, someplace more conducive to thinking, especially outside, or I might pace around in the house). Once I have an idea for the basic shape of the scene, I might be able to just write it, or I might have to go through successive stages of writing in more detail. It's like a series of steps, from rough outline up to finished scene. And before any of this there are often notes and freewrites to develop ideas.
Pantsing is the fun of it for me. I love that twinge of anxiety of whether I can pull it off. I love feeling like I'm along for the ride. I love creating this way. I have never really wanted to write any sort of prewriting. That bores me. I truly love pantsing for the thrill of it. I think all writers know what it's like to feel stuck. And I think that can happen for both plotters and panthers. But every time a writer is stuck is an opportunity to flip the script. It doesn't have to be all crazy, but when it seems like you've got some sort of mental blockage holding back the story, rethinking or tinkering with that section might be a good thing. Personally, I like the middle of a story. I'm comfortable writing the middle. The middle is where I can lose myself and really get a grove going. At the same time, if I write a solid beginning, I get this sort of weird feeling like if I go on, I'm going to mess it up. That's never what happens, but I can't help that stupid, little thought from entering my brain. I don't know if that's how you feel. @Thomas Larmore -- Do you know what it is about the middle that makes it feel like the hardest part for you?
I just finished Story Genius by Lisa Cohn. She puts forward a very interesting method based on the characters and two questions. And so? And Why? The method uses a lot of exploratory writing in a focused bio for all the characters and seemed to draw out a structured story fairly well.
Let's not argue about what it takes to pull that stuff off. There are many great writers who 100 percent pants and I don't think it hurts their writing. You have your method and steps you take. Others may not need to take those steps. In no way am I saying one method is easier or is the right one or produces better results. Please kindly respect the ways in which others work and that is NO indicator of their skills or talents.
This reminds me of the technique I've heard, that I think would work well when building an outline or a story synopsis. Basically, it should be written so it fits a pattern of "John wanted ________, but __________ happened, and so as a result he was forced to ________. But __________ occurred, which caused him no end of __________, so he thought and thought and decided to try _________ (on and on like this). See, the trick is your ideas need to link into each other using story terms, like 'Because' and 'As a result', and 'But then.' What a story is NOT is a series of 'And thens.' Unless it's Dumb and Dumber maybe, or no—what was that movie? Oh—Dude, Where's my Car? 'This happened, and then that happened, and then this other thing happened, and everybody lived happily ever after." This is not a story. Nothing is dramatically connected by story terms.
Exactly, the idea of and so, was establishing the cause and effect chain of events. The other part was showing the internal change in the Character.
Sorry if you saw my post as disrespectful. I saw this as an interesting approach that might help some people. People like Stephen King who can pants novel after novel successfully are rare. My take is that they have internalized story structure to the point of it being muscle memory,
I guess I fall in between. I plot out my general story, and the individual chapters... simply put, one chapter is 'MC will be in hiding, then get chased by the bad guy'. As I started writing that, I ended up writing two chapters. The first was MC hiding in his Uncle's townhouse (cue some backstory - his Uncle didn't exist until I started the chapter), then freaking out about a suspicious car parked outside on the street (building up tension), and then reminiscing about how he met his girlfriend two years earlier (throw in some emotion - she's the murdered victim at the center of the story). The second chapter starts the chase - MC eventually twists his ankle, which will impact him at least during the next few chapters, and he eventually ends up at the apartment of the Detective investigating his girlfriend's case. None of those things were in my mind when I started typing away. I just wanted an action scene. As a pantser, can you still come up with some vague ideas to keep the story moving, and then see what else happens as you try to write them?
I usually don't even have a vague idea. The ideas don't come to me until I start writing. Then I'm pretty much on autopilot or along for the ride. I'm not sure how knowing or plotting moves the story along any better than just making it up as you go. I've been writing for quite a long time and this is just how I've always worked.
I don't think anyone in this thread is claiming one method is better than the other? I think there are pros and cons to both, and it can depend on genre. When it's something formulaic like a murder murder mystery where things need to tie into each other, it probably helps to plan. You can't have a Detective just randomly making things up as they go and getting into situations that don't make sense in relation to the end outcome. In my story, the Detective's girlfriend was killed months earlier which is discussed in the first few chapters. It will be revealed toward the end that the main bad guy was responsible for it and specifically targeted her. Therefore, I need to get from Point A to Point B somehow, no matter how many twists and turns come in between. My comment was directed at the OP, I just didn't quote them. But if something is consistently not working, why not try a different way, even if it seems hard or unnatural at first?
