I'm not sure if I would call animals shy about defecating or urinating. As long as it isn't where they do everything else (i.e. a corner), there doesn't seem to be much discretion. How different is it that owner provides a source of (constant and nutritious) food, rather than the environment to which the animal is subjected? Besides, it's not like Fluffy is going to have a silver plate to eat off in the wild. Is veterinary care not better than 'walking it off'? If the animal was in the wild, it would probably no longer be able to get food and die, or would be killed by another more easily. They are neutered and spayed to prevent them from being killed, as overpopulation would bring. I can't say it'd get to the point China is currently, but some would definitely be considered pests after a while. In fact, it's already happening.
mammamaia, despite your extreme view on animals I still love you for the caring person that you are! LOL
Totally agree. IMO many people who support or promote PETA are definitely are under the impression that they're simply helping with the prevention of animal cruelty, but the organisation itself is run by a bunch of nuts. I've read a huge amount about PETA since I learnt of them and from what I can tell they're incredibly violent for one thing - blowing up labs, etc - I do realise they wouldn't be the first activist group who is - but it also seems that a lot of the dogs and cats being killed in the US are being killed by PETA. Another thing I don't agree with is that they promote animal rights - IMO a being can only have rights if they understand the concept, which I don't believe animals do. I support animal welfare, but they seem more interested in animals gaining rights than being treated well :/ Anyway that's just my take on them, I don't believe the organisation itself does a scrap of good. To actually answer your question, I honestly couldn't give an opinion - I don't know anything about fish or the difference between their life expectancies in captivity and in the wild or whether they have the capacity to differentiate living in a cage and living in the wild - if anyone would like to give me some answers, feel free to. So in conclusion, I'd basically have to be given some info before I form an opinion as I'd just be pulling something out of the air right now I will add I don't approve of animals such as whales being kept in captivity, though.
Or we can let you live outside, have to find and eat whatever you can find, pee outside and in public. Never have any vet care and so if you get injured or sick or die you just have to live with it. You can eat a dirty rat that you killed that may or may not have the diseases those shots would've kept you from getting, and you can give birth to litter after litter, become a milk machine. You have dodge cars and people who don't want you anywhere. Smaller insects use you for food, and clumps of hair fall out at once. Also, in the winter you have to trudge through the snow, in the summer, you have to walk out in the blazing heat. I think I'll take my chances with plenty of food, shelter, and peeing in a box.
I have 3 cats. they have a private area with a clean litter box. They have a fountain of running water for drinks. The one drinks from the kitchen tap or the bathtub tap which is left dripping for her. She will not drink from a bowl. If I happen to run out of food they get tuna fish or salmon. If I pick up a type of food they don't like I end up throwing out the bag and getting one they like. They get toys every other week, They are only allowed outside on leashes and we are always out when they are. With wolves, foxes, cougars and bears not to mention porcupines and skunks and dogs it would not be safe for them. If they escape we are out walking in the bush searching for them. Dom and Ray were allowed to explore on their own from the time we moved here until they moved out. Not my babies though. We could not give them away since they would not survive long. One pines away and cries for me if I leave for a couple of hours. so he has to stay. The other one is just a big baby and he would find his way home from just about anyplace. Cassie is now 23 and on her last legs but she will go with respect and not to some vet. She will be buried with honours in a metal box so the nasties can't get her even in death. My cats are treated much better than lots of children in loving families. If you treat an animal with respect and love they love you back and that is all that matters.
actually with the horse example, it would be kinder on the horse to be attacked by a predator. You have NO IDEA what those horses go through. Did you know the surfaces they race on are actually damaging their legs? A horse is not meant to be worked on hard surfaces. Horses cop so much abuse and are so badly neglected all the time. They are literally better off in the wild. In humanities hands, they suffer just as much, if not more, than they would in the wild. They tend to get pretty badly hurt because of humans. So in response to your above question emily, the horse in captivity definitely suffers far more pain than the wild horse that is running free.
lol, PETA, what a crock. They're way too nutty and illogical to even begin to support. Seriously, I just can't take any of their points seriously, because they conduct themselves in such a bad manner. PETA really annoys me.
sorry, i didn't read the whole thread. does anybody know why PETA recommends not keeping pets? personally i love animals, but fretting over the lives of pets and domestic animals seems like incredibly misplaced energy when far more serious things are going on, such as the extinction of animals in the wild, like the orangutan.
i just skimmed the article at wikipedia and i think you've misunderstood their intent, to wit: and therefore their message seems to be that they think having pets is fine, but you should strive not to think of them as property and strive to consider their health and well-being as much as possible.
Hm. You make a great point. So, maybe horses are better off. But as for your average housecat, I think he'll be happier with his litterbox. And, I found this out the other day, the U.S. is one of the only countries that hasn't upped standards for racehorses. In many countries in Europe (the specific ones escape me right now), use of whips have been banned and they've made efforts to give better conditions for the animals.
Genetic engineering is a problem. Race horses are bred with such a narrow focus that they can have serious weaknesses...things like fragile leg bones to enhance leg speed and high strung temperaments to encourage competitive spirit. These characteristics make for fast animals but they are not hardy animals like common mixed-breed farm horses. Same thing goes for dogs and cats. All the "pure" bred animals usually have related health issues. I own a couple of mini Dachshunds. This breed is prone to spine problems, and while most have wonderful temperaments, some are nippy little bastards. Ultimately, "mutts" (mixed breeds) are the most healthy and often have the best personalities. Guess mother nature knows best! ps I also own several "mutts" that are great pets.
Hm...I had a dog that was primarily German Sheperd for a good 13 years (I'm 14), and she died after having bad hip problems for a long time. I know GS's have a tendency to have hip problems.
and what kind of breed was it after the 13th year? j/k. sorry to hear about its death. according to WP your dog did live a little longer than average and as sodium chloride said, the hip problems were a result of inbreeding when the species was created. and i suppose it would take a lot of effort and patience to try to breed that characteristic out.
I don't know much about PETA, but I do know that I see a lot of people giving their animals inadequate care, especially dogs who live in towns or cities. The owners think they are taking good care of them while not providing them with adequate exercise and feeding them either too much or the wrong types of food. I've gotten to the point where I don't think most 'cityfolk' should be allowed to keep dogs. But as for fish, I have to say, I don't really think it makes a difference...
Sorry, gotta throw in my two cents... 90% of all goldfish I've ever sold have been sent off to die in the hands of someone unwilling to put in the effort needed to keep them healthy long-term. Being fed every day isn't a positive thing when they're slow-rotting in fetid water. At the pet store where I work, I try to make sure that most of our fish are aquarium raised if not bred. Health issues aside (and cyanide use in certain places to catch fish...) they adapt with alot less stress to aquarium life. Most fish in the hobby are raised on farms when economical. While I can't say it's always a stress on them... I have wild caught fish in my aquarium (a 125 gallon) which not only settled in happily but bred repeatedly and continue to do so. They are fat little pigs that will follow me around waiting for food even 20 minutes after they have eaten, when their stomachs are still practically bulging. Are they happy? I'd say so. Just as happy as any spoiled housepet, and these were netted from a stream in the Amazon.
Animals in captivity can be a touchy subject, but i beleive that PETA is going out of line with thier recent argument that we as animal lovers shouldn't be able to have an animal to care for. i love my cat, i beleive, or atleast i want to beleive that she loves me too and i don't think there is a real problem with most people having pets.
The only recent article that I can find out PETA has to do with their new ad in which parents tell their daughter to go out and "nail everyone they can." Then concluding it by saying parents wouldn't act that way, neither should pet owners. A message about spaying and neutering...yadda yadda. On their website they state: That's about all I can find on the subject.
I have 2 cats and 3 dogs. The cats get to run around the house and have constant attention almost all day, everyday (we both work at home). When I look at my girl cat and simply say her name she purrs. She jumps onto my lap and demands that her belly be rubbed about 20 times a day. They sleep with us at night. Our dogs have an acre to run around in, they get to go for hikes, they get special treats/toys... things they would never have in the wild. They don't have to fight each other for food, or worry about hunting or being hunted. If I had to choose to live outside and figure things out for myself, never knowing if I will have a warm bed, food, love, and living a life of constant survival or to live with someone and have them take care of me for the rest of my life... love me, play with my hair, brush me, bathe me, feed me, give me toys/treats, take me on trips that I never had to pay for, tell me all day long how much they love me and thought I was the best thing ever, and pretty much just pamper me... I would choose the latter (even if it meant the occasional trip to the vet)... but that's just me and my opinion and what I would rather choose. I wouldn't choose to live on the street, even if the choice was made for me. If someone today came and put me in a house and said: "You have to live here and be spoiled... we are forcing you to." Then I would kick back and say, "Sweet! No more work!"
thank you, sir. then the implied message seems to be that PETA is okay with people having pets. they wish that the practice didn't exist and they strongly feel that pets should be cared for carefully and neutered, but they're okay with it in the real world.
Well, there was this story where people bought wild animals and raised them in their homes, but the animal (a monkey) was nice but randomly started attacking the owner and chewing on body parts etc. so i guess if the animal was already domesticated then it's alright, but if you take an animal from the wild then that stinks.
The government could run a mandatory program for those who join or are members. Then we would be rid of the problem in only one generation.
Stranger things have happened. Do you know why the Shakers pretty much died out? They did not believe in having sexual relations, even for procreation. No wonder they built such damned fine furniture! I used to live a few miles from a Shaker village, basically a cultural museum at the time. When the workmen were maintaining the structures, they opened up a wall and found a tiny skeleton, clearly concealed there rather than exposing the mother to the shame.
