Pirated digital books

Okay, so you're agreeing that it's morally wrong to take something without the owner's consent, unless...

you subsequently go back and pay for what you took, and spread the word about how good what you took was.

So is it morally wrong to take something without the owner's consent and then not go back and pay for it and not spread the word about it - which is what I assume you would do if you didn't like the book?

It seems like you're setting up a situation where it's morally okay to take something you like, but morally wrong to take something you don't like, but you don't know which it's going to be until you've already taken it, so...?

(And, again, I don't at all accept your "I'm doing the author a favour" bullshit. I'm just going with it as part of an attempt to get at the basis of your argument.)

 

Every video and DVD. God that used to e

Okay, which is more immoral, a person misrepresenting a product to achieve a sale, or a person taking means to investigate the product before purchase in a way that is illegal but non-damaging?

 

No. There's LOADS of legally available content for a starving mind to download for free. All of the classics, for a start.

This isn't about starvation. It's about want, not need.

 

Both. However, I suspect that your definition of "misrepresenting" is a publisher saying, "This book is good!" and you saying, after you've stolen it, "No, it's not!"

In that case, you're the immoral one and the publisher is in the clear.

 

Public library.
Project Gutenberg.
Public library.
Also? Public library.
And there's this really weird old-school thing called radio.

 

It's morally wrong to take something without the owners consent. Full stop.

I have no arguments with that.

Do I have your permission to change the argument so that it's in line with the subject matter? I.e. book sales.

 

Book sales? Because piracy doesn't really involve sales...

 

I suddenly imagine a pirate declaring, "I'm not giving that book away for free, I charged a dollar! I raised the perception of its value above that of other pirated books! I'm doing the author a favor!"

 

I don't mean a genuine opinion of a reviewer saying "This book is good!" I mean about fabricated reviews for books, people paid to go 5 stars! Best work ever!

 

In the case of the former, yes it's immoral.

In the case of the latter, it's the publisher that's immoral

In the former, I have made a subjective judgement, I can't possibly be morally right if the work is similar to the review. I've committed piracy and given my subjective view which doesn't carry over to the general consensus. But in this case I would have gone "This book is good! Have my money!" and paid for it. It doesn't erase the crime of piracy, all it does is give the publisher what they deserve, is a moral correction. It's the intent of finding out if the book is good enough to substantiate the claims, and then invest in them by buying the book. I know that sentence sounds 'holier than tough, here peasant have a shilling' but it's not what I'm aiming for at all.

In the latter, the publisher has lied and falsified reviews for their own monetary gain. I've committed piracy and found them to by lying, at which point I'm grateful I took that route otherwise I would have validated that behaviour.

 

This feels like another red herring.

I've never paid for reviews. Does that make it immoral for people to pirate MY books?

But how would a pirate ever be sure if reviews have been paid for or not?

 

Well, let's give it a go before I sail away for good.

Recently it's come to my attention that a few author's out there pay for reviews. This has made me sceptical of any published work. In light of this, is it better for the reading community to pay the author, and additionally validate that behaviour for the future? Or is it better to find out if the goods are as good as they say.

Yes, piracy is a shitty thing that exists, and it isn't going anywhere any time soon. But it does afford an avenue for you to personally attest to the quality of a book before purchasing, it is then your choice to buy the book or not buy the book. It's illegal, but it gives a definite result that is applicable to yourself and yourself alone. That certainty is a justification in itself to me. It's like policing books. Illegally.

 

A few cars are lemons, but they might look good on the outside and the salesmen might say they're good.

So that means it's okay to just take any car from the lot, drive it around for a while, and then decide whether to pay for it or not.

Nope. Doesn't work for me.

Why don't you just avoid the morality, avoid the justification, avoid the idea that you're somehow a book policeman.

Go to Goodreads, ask your friends, find trusted reviewers who read in your genre. There are ways to find out if books are likely to be to your taste that are completely legal and moral. Maybe they're just not quite as easy.

But if 'easy' is the main criteria? Stop talking about morality.

 

I assume the pirate would read the book. The pirate would then know if the reviews are true. Sure it would give a subjective view, but if you're going to say 'This thing is good' and it's not good, then you've lied about your product in order to sell it.

I have to say that if someone is pirating your books just so they don't have to pay you, with no consideration for the work itself, that would be immoral. It would mean that your work is as good as the worst work out there. If someone pirated your books to experience them and see if they're good, then decided to pay you for the book, it's a positive sum. They've read your book, gained a handle on it's quality, and then acknowledged you as an author. I mean the whole process for me would be based on false and paid for reviews, so there would never be any intent to con you out of money, just a need to verify that I'm getting what is advertised. If your advertisements of your books are not fictitious, then you'd get paid for a copy of a genuinely good book. If your book was dog turd, I'd look at the reviews and judge whether there's sufficient doubt surrounding whether the book could be considered good by others. If yes, you'd get my money again, if not, you're a dirty rotten review buying liar and I will not justify your actions with money.

 

I basically lived in the school library, was a great place to go instead of eating lunch. I'd even gotten in close with the librarian to where she'd get books transferred from other schools for me, and eventually actually bought book-sets I was interested in. Didn't have transport to anywhere else though.

I don't know if you've listened to the radio recently, 90% is all owned by the same company who plays the same 5 pop songs over and over.

Maybe I am a terrible person.
If there's something I want, but I don't have the resources or opportunity to get those resources through working for them, I'll find another way.
The moral answer is to settle for less, be the equivalent of a Free-to-play user in life. I'm okay with being amoral.

 

Fake reviews are pretty obvious, and it's usually possible to read a portion of a book without stealing it. So, nope.

 

I don't pirate BayView, I'm just playing devils advocate on the case. Piracy isn't all doom and gloom, it has fringe benefits, and doesn't hurt sales like the boogeyman it's made out to be. I know this for a fact because I have looked into it, at length myself. You're welcome to have your own views, and I don't dispute you having them. But you can't also tell me I'm wrong when I have information that backs up my beliefs.

 

And the start of a book is no indication to the overall quality of the book. It's a dead give away most times, but it's not always the case. So...yes?

 

Would you also advocate sneaking into a theater, watching the whole movie, and only then deciding whether to buy and throw away a ticket for a later showing?

You could double your Robin Hood activities by eating shoplifted candy, judging it's freshness, and deciding whether to return to pay for it. The logistics of payment would be more difficult; perhaps the store would have to settle for the honor of having you as a future customer.

 

No. Your personal judgement of quality is not a license to steal.

 

You have information on morality?

 

Shoplifting probably also helps by keeping the stock fresh, and keeping the store safer due to the extra security personnel hired.

 

I would actually pay for the ticket and throw it away, and also pay for the candy. But, I have been told I'm strange enough times, so I'm inclined to believe I am.

 

Indeed, increasing the job market one petty theft at a time.

 

I have information on whether piracy is really damaging, is what I meant