1. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    Poul Anderson "On Thud and Blunder"

    Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by Iain Aschendale, Jan 21, 2018.

    @Iain Aschendale submitted a new resource:

    On thud and blunder - a classic essay by Poul Anderson

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  2. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    As I've mentioned elsewhere, this was something I learned to some degree after the hurricane. Simple things like clean water, food storage, food itself, are time-consuming endeavors when the magical gifts of Modern Society are no longer at hand. And I still had a solid roof over my head and we hadn't descended to the point where I feared anyone stealing what I had. I can only imagine how little spare time I would have had if I had had to figure that into the equation.

    This is something I have actually thought about quite a bit in my WIP. It's the reason I have what some might see as an overly elaborate town map. The entirety of the town is clearly not going to be a mentioned part of the story, but knowing the entirety of the town, I think, helps make the parts that do get mentioned more organic.

    What he mentions concerning the way seasonal task like sowing and harvest can create their own dynamics of when wars will or won't take place is also interesting. It's easily the most glaring problem I've found with ASoIaF. How do the denizens of Westeros survive winter when winter is, from an Earthly POV, many years long. No harvests for years at a time in a sparsely populated, medievalesque society? No....

    I will admit that I am knowingly making making use of this. :-D I know enough, from a layman's POV, about what a sailed ship can and cannot do not to just have it chug its way merilly to the quest-goal without doing the following...
    ... but I won't be fapping any salty sea knowledge at the reader in the mode of mentioning esoteric bits of rigging, sails, lanyards, etc. The crew knows its task and my characters do what needs doing, but we won't be going any deeper than that.
     
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  3. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Now also a resource - Ive asked wrey to change the other thread to credit you, and to merge with this one. (if it weren't in the top quarter I'd do that myself- its an unfortunate side effect of how resources are structured that I have to submit in my name then reassign, so as soon as I hit submit I get the auto credit thread)
     
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  4. DeusXMachina

    DeusXMachina Member

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    Adding to this: Often I get the feeling in modern high/heroic fantasy that the authors basically write fanfiction in the sense that they're so obviously inspired respectively socialised to the genre by fantasy games that it hurts. Some authors seem to have massive difficulties to distinguish between "realistic" world-building and game mechanisms like the totally unrealistic inventory systems that are necessary in games that take their longevity from grinding.

    Ever noticed that the hero over the whole course of a novel never changes out of their massive silver-plated steel armour? The one that the blow of the troll's two-handed double-edged battle-axe they met at the last bridge just glances off of? (Unless of course he has a seduction scene in an idyllic forest pond where the codpiece would really be a hindrance, but even then it's out of the armour - back into the armour. An usually without padding.)

    A full suit of metal armour has easily 50-70 kg. It's uncomfortable, stiff, hot as hell, you will swim in your own sweat and reek miles against the wind after a few hours, you need help to get in or out, it deprives you of your senses and it has only very situational use. It's also extremely hard to make and costs a fortune, even without silver. And still, plate armour seems the business suit of choice 24/7 for every other fantasy char, be it pro- or antagonist.
     
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  5. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    I agree with all of these points except for some details on the last. Plate mail didn't weight quite that much, I've heard (and I'm sorry not to have a cite, so take it with a grain of salt) that the higher weights of mail, and tales of knights having to be winched up onto their steeds, come from competitive jousting armor, which was extra heavyweight because not getting hurt was more important than overall battlefield mobility. Once you were unhorsed, the point had been scored (or however they worked it), you didn't have to fight your way out of things.

    Also, the way the weight was distributed in plate mail made it easier to wear and less unwieldy than modern stuff like firefighter's gear or a soldier's backpack. It had an equivalent weight, but was distributed about your body such that it wouldn't throw your center of gravity so much. The video below shows three guys, one in firefighting kit, one with modern soldier's equipment, and one in plate mail, all negotiating an obstacle course, with similar results.

    None of this negates your excellent point that people wouldn't be wandering about in full armor all day, all the time, any more than Gen. Dunford attends meetings of the Joint Chiefs wearing a k-pot and carrying an M-4 (although I have my suspicions about Sec. Mattis :) ), but medieval armor wasn't quite as awful as it's often made out to be.

     
  6. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

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    Love the mention of the whole "automaton horse" trope. A lot of people seem to forget that they're creatures with their own wills. Many things spook them if they haven't been acclimated (elephants, camels, loud noise like moving plate armor, etc.). Caesar stabled his horses close to a few elephants he'd acquired before the Battle of Thapsus, in order to reduce the impact of the republican army's war elephants.

    Horses won't charge home against a mass of men holding their ground in tight formation, though the Comanche supposedly found a way to overcome this tendency. This is why pike walls, war wagons, and infantry squares worked so well against heavy cavalry.
     
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