@AnnaKaling There are sites that give people in the industry sales figures, but licences to access them are prohibitively expensive for individuals. The link I posted above includes how to look up Amazon sales numbers, which give you a rough idea how books are selling. It only covers copies sold on Amazon and it only really works for new releases and in certain genres (e.g. middle grade books sell *way* better in print so good sellers will have crap Amazon rankings) but it's probably the best tool. Actually the best tool is asking authors for the sales numbers, but understandably that is hit and miss.
Yes I found you just now! (and sent you a penguin) Am I right to think that's your pen name? Somehow I have a different name in my head from our PMs... but it was a long time ago.
Good to hear my memory serves! How did you choose it? I'm still deciding between using my English first name plus Chinese middle name, or just use my true, full name (English-Chinese-Czech mix). I can't decide.
Without belaboring it, for the benefit of others who read this thread, you pointed out another red flag people should look out for. I don't want to hammer the publisher to death, because they may just be inexperienced, so let's imagine the above-bolded takes place in a Hollywood office because Hollywood's easy to pick on. When you to walk into someone's office and the person you're meeting says a lot of "stuff" while saying very little at all? That's the very definition of bullshit. I refuse to sugarcoat it, because the people who actually do it use the term "bullshit" as well. When someone who's supposed to be a professional does this, red flags should go up because either they don't know what they're doing, or they're trying to confuse the person into signing a bad contract. At its ugliest, it's a psychological tactic. Either way, they're counting on the newbie to be so enthralled they don't notice. (*Also used by some car salesman and people who are trying to sell you a service contract or subscription service.) Thank God you're sensible. A lot of people ignore every red flag. Thank you. He was a smart guy, but his manager didn't know what he was doing. Music is riskier, and TV and movies even more so. The more money and power at stake, the nastier things can get. I don't want to give the impression that everyone is like that, though. There are some amazing people as well, but nobody ever mentions the good because as we all know, conflict makes a more entertaining story. That's awesome! Good representation helps protect you and deflects the bullshit.
Another red flag is that these guys are publishing their own books through this operation which makes it self publishing for them. I'm not sure what it really makes that for other writers they publish in the same way they publish their own books. I used to subscribe to a literary journal that did this. I was reading it, and one of the pieces really didn't sit right with me. I was talking about it with a friend who pointed out that the writer was on the masthead and running the thing. Well, that explained how that story got in there. This place is still up and running as far as I know, but I did not renew my subscription. I've never seen this done in any other journal I've read.
You can spot check on Amazon or Kobo, and B&N, the rankings. Sure, with a smaller press especially, some titles that are 6 months or a year out may be weak in rankings, but in the first month, a title should do well. Sometimes reviews are a decent measure...how many and the quality of reviews are important. Often, with some books, there are reviews that if you check the reviewer's page/history, they've only reviewed that book. There are also boughts on Amazon. See what books connect to them (not necessarily what books are on their also bought). It's not an exact science, more getting a feel. It is more difficult with publishers that take their authors wide, beyond Amazon. But before you're settled on a publisher, I think it pays off to follow and pay attention to the success of their authors in attracting readers. I will say that with a small press, don't expect the moon. You'll have a better chance of earning more money, and/or breaking out with one of the big five publishers or self-publishing. Depending on the cost of the cover and editing, plus ISBN and at least the initial marketing push, I figure my publisher has to sell between 350 and 500 copies for each title released before making a profit. If a publisher doesn't make a profit, they won't remain in business for long.
For a perfect example of this, I highly recommend either one (or both!) of the Fyre Festival documentaries that came out on Hulu and Netflix. Truly jaw-dropping how so many people - including some very experienced industry folks - were led astray by a narcissistic con man with a gift for gab.
You read my mind. I was thinking about the Fyre Festival as one example when I wrote that. I haven't seen either documentary yet but followed the whole debacle in real-time as it was all going down, and it was nasty. So many innocent vendors got hurt in that. Think of all the companies it takes to put on a concert, and none of them (or virtually none of them) or their employees got paid. Vendors are just ordinary people, doing their jobs, and most are not rich. Now flip that concept to publishing, and imagine all the vendors it takes to put out a book...cover designers, editors...everything it takes, not getting paid, and your book being caught in the middle of it. I second LK in recommending everyone watch the Fyre Festival documentaries. As you're watching, think of all the people who were either too embarassed or too fearful of hurting their careers to go on camera for fear of people thinking they were dumb. They weren't dumb, they were just too trusting, and probably a little too excited about putting on this festival, so they lost their business heads.
Oh, it happens - I had a ringside seat to the All Romance Ebooks debacle a couple of years ago: https://www.writingforums.org/threads/attention-romance-authors-all-romance-ebooks-closing-dec-31.149901/
Never heard of the Fyre Festival. What happened there? And just read your ARe debacle - so sorry that happened. But you got rights to your books back, right?
They didn't have any rights to my books, only authors who self-pubbed through them did. They did stiff my publisher LT3 for royalties owed, but LT3 paid me my full royalties out of their own pocket. The Fyre Festival was a nightmare music festival that bilked a ton of people out of millions of dollars last year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyre_Festival
Thank you for posting that, LK. That was before I got back into writing fiction, so what I'd heard about it was vague. I'm glad you got your royalties. Good on your publisher. Thanks for posting the Fyre Festival wiki, too. I hadn't read it. Fyre Festival was the ultimate mindfuck. Anyone who'd ever seen a budget sheet for a concert knew the numbers flying around the rumor mill weren't adding up, and people were so enamored by the glamorous descriptions of the proposed festival they lost their heads. If you (not you specifically LK) find yourself getting excited over a potential business deal, shut that down and focus. There are people who count on, and prey on people getting carried away with excitement. If it goes well, you can celebrate later.
Just read the wiki. Wow... I don't understand why the government wouldn't let people leave the island though and lock them in an airport without services? That's just weird. Everything else seems like good intentions and bad planning gone horribly wrong. It doesn't sound like the guys set out to scam anyone. Reminds me of why my husband pulled me back from a business venture I had in my head. I wanted to open a co-working space with a childcare attached and was convinced there's money in it. I was looking into competitors, price lists, equipment, thinking up a vision. And there my husband was, doing the actual real stuff - lawyers, rent, legal regulations surrounding the whole thing. It just wasn't possible - not without doing some things on the sly, bypassing certain laws, going through legal loopholes etc. And even then a tonne of money was needed. Most significantly there were three conditions: 1. the owner of the business must be licensed to work with kids below the age of 3 (neither of us had it but husband could have studied and got the license), 2. Any staff on whom the business relies on to run MUST be employed by law, not hired on a freelance basis (a practice a lot of companies still do, to be honest). This means taxes, health and social insurance, and 3 months salary for each employee should the business go bankrupt. 3. The venue must have child-sized toilets for the children. It was something like one per 5 children. We would have needed two, probably. Despite all this, I was still convinced we could go for it. I had such a vision in my head and convinced hard work could rectify many of these problems. It was thanks to my husband I finally saw the light and abandoned the idea. He was too scared of the liability because we are dealing with kids. Should any little accident happen and parents decide to sue, any loopholes we had tried to go through to get the business running would be found out and then we'd be in even deeper trouble. And he was like, "I don't have the kind of money we'd need to get us out of trouble." So, having a sound partner can save lives!
