Race in Fantasy (Historical Negligence)

Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by Erik-the-Enchanter!, Jan 19, 2024.

  1. Storysmith

    Storysmith Senior Member

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    This has nothing to do with what's important to the story. If these physical characteristics are that unimportant, then don't mention them. My point is that a reader is going to form a mental image of the characters, and if it fits the clues the writer initially gives, they shouldn't have the jarring experience of being told that they were wrong all along. Mechanical hand? Mention it up front, because otherwise people will default to natural hands. Small scar? That can be left unnoticed until later, but a large disfiguring scar on the face should be mentioned when the character is first met. Obviously, there are exceptions; if the character is wearing a mask initially, the scar shouldn't be mentioned until they are unmasked. If the author fails to give physical descriptions up-front, but introduces them later, then expect the readers to tell other people that they found parts of your work jarring. You can ponder why they formed the wrong impressions, but I think I've made it clear; some readers will probably avoid your work after hearing about it having jarring parts.
     
  2. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    and this is the issue at hand (lol) and the point I was making, people will always default to what is normal. such as "white as default" (and, I guess, two hands as default). that, unless its explicitly stated that they are "other" that they will be seen as white.

    if you can mention a character has blond hair, red hair, brown hair.... the the default will be "white".... you can say "darker skin" and the default will be white (but with a tan). unless I specifically say "she's black/african American" then she is white.
    which is why the beta reader was so put off...because, by saying something as innocuous as "her parents gazed up at her, the warm ochre of her father's skin vibrant beneath the candlelight and the dark hues set against her mother's bright smile gave the portrait life. It was the most alive they had ever been," suddenly its OMG, SHES BLACK????
    (obviously, she stares at the portrait longer nd more thoughts and emotions go through her mind as she picks out similarities between herself and the dead parents she's never met... but the above is basically the start of it)
     
  3. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    The darker skin makes me think Latino or middle eastern. But we are also talking about a mainstream where the history has been predominantly white authors.

    If the characters race is such a concern for you, state the race. If it isn't then let the ready imagine the character however they like.
     
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  4. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    Do black readers default to black or white?
     
  5. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    I can speak for myself and say as a kid, i thought they were white. Because the books accessible to me were by white authors.
    The only books that didnt have white characters (but were still written by white people) were historical fiction... Off the top of my head, Chu Ju's Home (Chinese girl in China), Honey Bea (a slave on southern Plantation) and Homeless Bird (Hindi girl in India).

    But even characters i'd take literally and think were black because they are described as having brown skin or tanner complexion, id have friends say "no they're not!" And i'd go "oh, i guess not..."

    But as an adult who has been exposed to a lot more writers and stories and people in general, my default is no longer white.


    *I will add to clarify: books that i read that were not required reading. HS IB English introduced me academically to various authors
     
  6. Storysmith

    Storysmith Senior Member

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    People usually have two natural hands, so of course readers are going to default to that. Similarly, I won't picture the character in a wheelchair unless you tell me to. Does the character have wings and a 4' tail? Tell me, because I'm not going to picture them that way otherwise. Otherwise, I'll fill in the missing information with the most likely details I can. If you don't tell me the race? Well, what's the most prevalent race in the time and location your story is set? I'll go with that, and I suspect most other people will. It's the safest bet.

    Most blonds are white. Most redheads are white. Most brunettes are white. White seems a good bet if you tell us those hair colours. If you want to tell us the skin colour, tell us the skin colour.

    So you know what to say to get the race across. Why not say that? If readers assume the character is white after you say they're black, then it's the reader's fault. If you don't tell them, then it's not their fault for guessing wrong.

    As I've said before, I don't believe the character being black is the problem. A physical detail of the character being revealed sometime after they are introduced, and that jarring with the reader's mental image, is the issue. Have the character look at the picture when first introduced, and there would be no problem.

    Here's a stackoverflow discussion of what amounts to the same issue; an author wants to reveal a character has red hair later in the story. The advice is unanimous; reveal the physical details when the character is first met, or never mention them:

    https://writing.stackexchange.com/questions/56172/how-late-is-too-late-to-describe-a-character
     
  7. B.E. Nugent

    B.E. Nugent Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    There are many things described in stories that aren't particularly important to the story. I get what you're saying about creating an impression that's later specified in a way that contradicts the reader's imaginings, but I'm still curious as to which details are deal breakers and which are just gradual exposition. Or maybe a sudden change of direction that comes unexpectedly but is still satisfying. I'm also curious as to how the reader might form those imaginings. I'd point out that, in my opinion, not all ethnicity assumptions are necessarily racist nor other form of unpleasant bias. Maybe the reader does create the character in their own image. Maybe that informs what many readers want to read. Not being entirely facetious, but maybe that's why I don't read Romance or Hero's Journey type stories. Maybe it goes some way to explain why I quite like material that is jarring in some way or other.

    I thought that was what this thread was about.

    I should be so lucky!
     
  8. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Making any assumption about a character's look without other information is not 'wrong' and will never be. Assuming defaults is both normal and harmless.

    But also, when I learn a character is different than I pictured, I don't throw the book across the room and write a bad review. Is this ruining the reader's wank session or what? If the reader is so aesthetically rigid, she shouldn't be reading books. Better add to my intro: "I checked out my ass in the mirror: yep, still white. Had to be sure. You never knew when you might wake up mocha."

    I prefer my POV characters' own features mainly being noticed by other characters (or in a realistic self-eval, definitely not at the intro) when it's a natural point to do so in the story. Because "I gripped my blonde hair while staring at my family's burning homestead." will always take me out of the story.
     
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  9. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I'm not sure we should conflate issues of race pre/misconception with operational errors in character description. One is a rabbit hole with ancient and often painful implications while the other is just a bad descriptive tactic. And while the reader who was shocked that the character was revealed to be Black may have been just as shocked if they discovered the character had a cleft palette, it's probably more likely than not they were shocked they were reading a Black book without being signaled they were reading a Black book by the images on the cover or the shelf in the library. I just think the issue runs much deeper than an simple editing faux pas in most cases.

    Contrast the whole thing with racial signaling in Hollywood. You know immediately when you're watching a Black television show or a Black movie or a Black network. It's made as clear as can be and is marketed as such so there are no surprises. Subvert that signaling in a work of prose where the images don't leap from the pages, and there will be some people that don't like it. It doesn't make them racist, just... unenlightened?
     

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