Rape

I don't 'decide' what my characters go through they do that. If a rape scene was wrong for one of my characters I don't think I could get them to go through with it. For me it is not a level of control I want to have over my stories.

Somehow my two corrupt vicicous serial killing police officers became cheeky chappie dedicated police officers in a light Sunday Afternoon drama kind of stories. Whereas my slapstick comedy became a story with about the darkest ending anyone could write.

Yes I panic, mourn, throw up, shake, cry whatever the emotion is to get my character through that scene - I have just yesterday written one where amother battered her child to the point his ribs were cracked, he was covered with bruises and struggling to breathe. The child was Socrates he is my most used character.

I have characters I can't kill and at least one character that refused to stay alive.

 

Happens to me a lot too. I frankly think if our stories didn't make US shake (as we are as close to these characters as possible), how can we expect to effect an audience? I've written a few rapes, even though I tend to gloss over the details nowadays. But it took a lot outta me cause I cared so much for the characters. But the reaction will likely be considerably weaker in a reader, so if I want to effect them at all, it has to hit me like this.

 

...I never write a story without planning it first. I create my characters to fit in into the plot, but of course giving them their own unique personallities. That's how I avoid plot holes, and I don't get lost while leading the beginning to the middle, the middle to the climax and the climax to the end. I don't feel serious when only improvising. Also, I really don't like to create characters that don't belong to any story.

But of course we all have different styles of writing.

I feel bad for my characters and I shiver at times but I never cry or scream. And of course I always make my best to respect my own decissions when the temptation of not hurting anyone and just giving them a perfectly all happy life starts eating me.

 

Not aware of any massive plot holes in my stories there is one involving a broken arm I need to work out some continuity errors with but apart from that I just rewrite it to work.

It is not often I directly create a character the story does that. Others just kind of wander into my life and kindly let me tell their story.

 

i'm not going to get personal here and start a flaming debate, so will simply quote the things addressed to me, not mentioning who wrote them:

of course it can be... which is why i am against it only in 'fiction' as you can see in my post...

it may be extreme to some, but it is not to me... as for the 3 stooges, would it be ok with you if your little kids did that kind of violent stuff to each other, or to anyone?

because i didn't have the desire or the courage to take a stand against aiding and abetting violence by using it to entertain, back then... i was smart enough to know better, but didn't bother to apply the same logic there that i did in not letting my kids play with toy guns... i'd pandered to the reading public's appetite for violence, instead of letting my good sense and conscience guide what i wrote...

as for doing any good with such stuff, no one reads fiction to learn a lesson... if writers want to make readers recognize how awful and wrongful rape is, then imo they should be writing non-fiction, not including it in stories meant to entertain...

right!... if it were fiction i wouldn't help them with it... however, if it were historical fact and the work was non-fiction, i'd have no problem with helping them...

nonsense!... simply not helping anyone write such stuff isn't doing any such thing... in fact it shows i'm all too aware of what goes on in the world, or i wouldn't disaprove of it being done in fiction, which i believe helps to make it 'accepted' as 'inevitable' when it's not, since humans have free will and can choose not to... and the fact that i do help with non-fiction that has violent content makes that accusation even more nonsensical...

exactly my point!... which is why i say it only shouldn't be used in fiction, not that it shouldn't be used in all kinds of writing...

and i defy you to show me where i'm being a judge for anyone but myself... i don't stop anyone from including violence in their fiction... and i don't condemn them for doing so... i merely refuse to help them do it...


azeher... i don't see what was 'cute' in my answers, but am glad we agree on the subject... hugs, m

 

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with Mammamaia's approach to this she is as entitled to put controls on her writing as the rest of us. I have issues that are very important to me within my writing and has been demonstrated on one review thread not everyone agrees with them.

Personally I think fiction is a non threatening way to open up society and it serves an important purpose. Nine times out of ten fact is too bizarre to report. The more open society is the more people turn round and say NO directly to people as a result the less violence there is.

 

I don't think there is a single subject that should not be written about in fiction. Some of them, such as rape, should be handled with care. Don't use it lightly. Don't use it just to make us pity the character. A character can have a bad history, but it has to serve the story in some way other than to get us to care about the character before you give us a real reason to. Whether that angsty piece of backstory is murder, rape, torture, paedophilia, I don't really care. I certainly don't consider rape to be the worst crime in the world, so I'm not going to single it out. Just handle them with care and make these things more meaningful, more important to the character and the story being told, and you can do just about anything.

 

Presenting things in a logical narrative can be the best way of presenting them. The truth already gets pruned down and sometimes even re-ordered a little to make the best story, no matter how non-fictiony it is, just because human story-telling urges kick in. Readers respond better to stories that are well-presented and seem to have some sort of meaning to them. Using fiction to get across deeper social warnings etc is a long-understood thing. Sometimes the events are downright implausible, but in tales everyone knows and can be said to have really shaped perceptions within the world that have led to many improvements in society.

 

Sorry, but I must insist on staying on topic here.

Also, a reminder to keep the discussion friendly and respectful. This is a sensitiv etopic that can very easily get out of hand.

 

My brother-in-law's stepmother was raped by her own father and was admitted recently to the hospital for some odd behavior. She's now on abilify. I don't take rape lightly at all, as I've seen how it can change people.

I believe the only book I ever loved that made the controversial "rape" scene integral to the plot was Tess of the D'Urbervilles, but that was because that single disgusting act disrupted her life, and when brought out into the open, exposed every character for who they really were (Angel being no angel at all).

However, I make it a personal choice not to write rape scenes in my stories. I find that very gratuitous, and I'm not a fan of that kind of writing. I'm very subtle about things like that. Rather than integrate a rape scene into the plot, I'd prefer to hint at it through dialogue and character behavior. I'm not very in-your-face. I think that if it's a moral issue that I want to raise then I might write about rape. But I have to say that in most cases, I've hardly touched on the subject.

 

Interesting discussion.

I personally think any subject in fiction should be fair game. It's all in the way it's handled. The important thing to remember is fiction can give voice to the voiceless and bring awareness and understanding of a situation without having 'real' people need to put themselves in a vulnerable position or be exploited.

Fiction has to the power to enlighten about tough subjects in a way that doesn't exploit or use victims, which I think is valuable. Sure, sometimes people will exploit a subject in a story in a way to try to cash in on it's shock value or ability to titillate, but that doesn't mean everyone is being unprofessional or disrespectful when writing about a tough subject.

The interesting thing I have a story that is about a girl who is rescued and brought home after months of being abducted and having horrible things happen to her. The story is about the complex feelings she has about what she's experienced, and how her family expecting her to return to 'normal' isn't as 'good' as people think. They want to pretend it never happened, she can't escape the fact it happened, and in the end reacts by escaping from her family who seem to want her to live a lie and expect her to 'okay' when she doesn't feel she is.

I don't even have the actual rape and torture on the page, but people have been offended. First, saying that I'm not allowed to write about such things since I'm a man. And secondly, that it's 'wrong' of me to represent a more complex perspective on a rape victim, and that it's 'wrong' to depict a rape victim as anything but completely healthy and happy and recovered fully.

My whole point for delving into this subject and this story was precisely the things people get offended about. People use their personal disgust and offense as a means of looking away and pretending it's not okay to talk about such things, that such acts against women should be private issues women should deal with in hushed whispers. I of course, don't agree, and think that's just dismissing victims and sending the message we don't care enough about them to openly discuss and challenge these sorts of issues.

And of course, I wrote about a character who was very different from the typical Lifetime for Women image of 'I was raped, but now I'm NORMAL and HAPPY' because that's not always how it works out. In fact, that's never how it works out. People struggle and fight and do overcome (thank God), but it's a confusing, complex psychological situation, and expecting rape victims (or victims of anything) to just be okay and go back to being normal is part of the problem. People take the stance "well, you're not being raped NOW, so why aren't you normal yet?" which is a huge part of the problem.

Now, I didn't have an agenda when I started writing, this is just how things worked out after the fact, when I was done exploring what this character and situation meant and how it played out and using hindsight to figure out why I'd write such things. It wasn't to exploit a titillating, controversial situation or because I like the subject (every time I read the story it breaks my heart). It's because somebody has to speak up, and fiction is the way I know to speak up.

The real disservice and offense are the people who aren't willing to use the voice they have, whether it's fiction or counseling or music, to speak up on behalf of those that may not have a voice. And if you're plugging your ears and screaming LA LA LA LA LA not wanting to hear it, then imo you may be part of the problem that urges others to feel they have to speak up, or speak a bit louder, so people can't just turn a blind eye and pretend these sorts of subjects and issues don't exist.

 

who are you referring to here, pops?... i'd like to know if you are including me as one of those 'people'... and if so, why?

 

Just speaking generally... everything isn't a personal attack or reference, you know, considering we're on a public forum and personal attacks would be highly inappropriate. If that statement made you defensive, then I apologize that something I said made you feel defensive, but that doesn't automatically imply an offense.

 

Some of you are really really really wrong on something. Because someone don't want to write or read about certain topic, that person is NOT making the problem bigger. One thing is not wanting to read about it and other to fake it doesn't happen in real life. Don't misunderstand things. In the end, what do you think matters the more? Fiction or real life? Is it more important to avoid some subjects in fiction than to actually avoid them in real life? I don't think so.

It's not the same, and we all are not the same. While you think that being "open-minded" about the subject in fiction represents an advantage, to me, it's very useless. To write about a topic as sensitive as that just for the fact of writing a story won't make you a better person and it won't definitely make you a better writer. If you chose to read, fine! It's all good while you don't forget you should NOT feel entertained by it, but if you chose not to read, it's fine too. I think that every person knows that rape is something wrong, it's something that sometimes will hunt you for the rest of your life, so... why to want to make others go through it in fiction when NO ONE wishes something like that to happen to others in real life?

Not because you don't read or write about it, it doesn't mean you won't do anything about it in real life. As you already said assume things about others is tough and very rude.

Lol maybe it seems I got mad, but I didn't. I just wanted to state that.
On topic again, I still believe there must be a really good reason to write about rape, that could be plot, sharing life lessons, or therapeutic methods.

 

I don't think I am wrong for feeling that way, I just have a different opinion than you. If it is a good reason to write about it I don't see the problem, and I do think it serves a purpose. In fact I agree with every word popsicledeath wrote as well.

I also think you're forgetting that they are stories. It is written word. Turn the page, put the book down, give it to charity if you feel you must. No one is making anyone go through anything in fiction. You don't have to read what I or anyone else writes if you don't like it. That's all I can really say, since pops covered everything else I feel on the subject.

 

You're so moralistic about this but you don't seem to be presenting any arguments. I agree that rape as pornography is abhorrent, but it's hard to draw the line sometimes. Sometimes something might be bad writing, and might be about rape and it might be objectionable, but that's ok. In that case you can criticize it and make the point that this is not very good writing, and discuss why rape should be treated sensitively. I am not entirely convinced that it would always be morally repugnant to write about rape in a way that's entertaining, or to be entertained by a story about rape. I don't like these kind of arbitrary rules, because there is always an example of something that breaks the rules.

I have no desire to write anything about rape at the moment, because it's not an issue I feel especially passionate about. Also I have seen many films and read many books that used rape in a way that made me feel sick, and I asked the question of whether that was necessary. Nevertheless, I still have to admit that unless the intent is pornographic, I have to respect the artist's liberty. It's art. Even if it's bad art, it's art.

 

I am closing this thread because too many members are making personal statements and judgements directed at other members.