Politicians are always going to attempt to sway peoples opinions in favour of their own agendas; It's pretty much the definition of a politician. Is the opinion of an American really going to make much different to which way Scots vote though?
Give Ireland Back To The Irish Don't Make Them Have To Take It Away Give Ireland Back To The Irish Make Ireland Irish Today Paul and Linda McCartney, 1972 I wouldn't worry too much what Obama's opinion on Irish independence is. The news here is he's preoccupied with Putin's interference in the Ukraine and the UK possibly leaving the EU.
I've said this before in another thread, but any country that makes good whisky deserves independence.
Bit late! That's wwwwweeeelllllll after the Irish Civil War and the founding of the Republic of Ireland.
I won't pretend to know the first thing about politics and relations between Scotland and England, but I can't help but wonder if Obama's attitude isn't partly the result of the justifiably jaded matter of U.S./Puerto Rico relations. We've had uncounted referendums here concerning our status with the U.S., each time costing the taxpayers a pretty penny, and nothing is ever resolved and the lack of "resolution" is completely island-side. We just had a hearing before the U.S. Senate in July of last year, nothing got resolved, and January of this year $2.5 million was ear-marked for yet another referendum. Again, I'm not stating in any way, shape or form that the situation is the same, but since PR is what Obama has to deal with, part of me can understand his attitude.
Sir Sean Connery (having been knighted by the queen in 2000) appeared at the Edinburgh International Film Festival in 2008. I live in Wales, which, like Scotland has its own assembly. We have free prescriptions here, but less money is spent on education. Over the border in England, schools are better funded but you have to pay for your meds. You can either have consistency or variety. The only people who would really benefit from full independence are the politicians who who’d have more power, and more money. National pride, as a motivating influence, did not served the world well in the last century. I see no reason why it will do any better in this one. We are all Europeans now (on this side of the pond anyway).
That is certainly how I see myself. I don't care that I was born in Britain, I was also born in Europe; and we Europeans have a shared history that I love.
So why is the present UK government planning to hold a referendum on in/out of the European Union? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_referendum_on_United_Kingdom_membership_of_the_European_Union @plothog I hope not. But you have no idea the barrage of negativity that has greeted the notion of Scottish independence. I'm getting so entirely fed up with it, especially when it comes from a country—and a leader—who is supposed to be the beacon of hope for every other democratic nation on earth. Ever since the referendum was agreed upon, Scotland gets up every morning to news headlines from the 'no' side of the campaign, spreading every kind of negative rumor and scare story they can think of. The fact is that most of these are either singular opinions or downright lies ...which are later admitted to, after the damage has been done. (Kind of like a judge 'striking' a remark from the court record, and telling the jury to pay no attention to it. Saying that doesn't erase the memory of it.) When the media can't scratch a scare story, it just launches a personal attack on Alex Salmond instead—a man who has managed to remain cool and calm during this whole little war. Independence is what he has fought for all his life, and he's not about to buckle now. This extreme negativity never applies to other nations getting or wanting independence. Where are the people saying Russia is right, and that the Crimea and Ukraine should go back to the 'mother fold' and become part of the USSR again? Why are Scots unique in not deserving to govern themselves, or being too stupid to govern themselves. And ...again ...the bottom line. If Scotland is such a useless nation (filled with nothing but heather and sheep, stupid, backward-looking people, welfare scroungers who are a drain on the welfare state of Britain) and Alex Salmond and his party who won the last two Scottish Parliamentary elections and is now the duly-elected First Minister of Scotland is actually the Devil Incarnate—then why oh why isn't the UK government encouraging a Yes vote instead of the opposite? Why not get rid of such a financial burden and ethnic embarrassment? You get to the bottom of this, and you'll understand. Not only will the oil in Scottish waters be lost to England if Scotland achieves independence, but there is a LOT of money ...trillions ...tied up in the war machine that includes nuclear warheads and the means to deliver them. Scotland wants to be rid of these nukes and submarines—and this isn't just the SNP, but most other Scottish people as well. They realise that not only is this a huge danger to Scotland, but THE MONEY IS BETTER SPENT DOING MORE POSITIVE THINGS. England—a region of the UK that still believes it struts large on the world stage—wants to continue to store these weapons in Scottish waters, and claims there is nowhere in England that is suitable for the storage. If Scotland becomes independent, there is a pretty good chance the UK will have to give up its nuclear weapons. The USA wants the programme to continue, because they build the warheads AND the means to deliver them and sell them to the UK government. A government that has already decided to order more. That's behind Obama's 'declaration' yesterday. I'm hoping Scotland finds the courage to defy the whole world and vote Yes in September. I shudder to think what will happen if they don't. They will be stuck with more nuclear weapons and the bill to pay for them, are likely to lose their Parliament, will have even more horrendous and punitive "austerity" cuts to their operational budget—cuts which have always been Tory agenda and are already impacting hard on the poor, the disabled and the elderly—will likely end up being out of Europe anyway, if the current trend towards UKIP and their ilk continue. We will end up paying private companies for our health care, getting dragged into foreign wars we don't want ...the list goes on. I shudder to think what will happen if Scots give up and decide they're better off with 'the devil you know' and vote No in September—in the mistaken belief that they'll be better off, or at least no worse off than they are just now. The shit is only waiting to hit the fan, believe me. The risk isn't voting Yes for independence. The risk is voting No. AND I do wish people would forget (and stop quoting from) that insanely stupid and historically incorrect American-made movie starring an Australian/American as the Scottish independence fighter William Wallace. That is not a Scottish movie. It's a movie made by others, perpetrating the 'myth' of Scotland as it once was. Kind of like Brigadoon.
I always thought you all were Europeans, regardless of whether you were part of the European Union or attached to the main Europe continent. Lemex is European, you are European, anyone from the continent of Europe is, according to what I understand, is European. Whether you're bound together under one union or not is irrelevant. You're European.
Try telling UKIP that. And they just won seats in the latest European election (and English council elections!), and their attitude (anti-Europe, anti-immigration and worryingly racist) is persuading many other British parties—including the Tories who are in power at present—to swing in that direction. So ...it's okay for the UK to be isolationist, but it's wrong for Scotland to want independence.
You'll have to forgive me this but UKIP can go to hell. If that racist Farage doesn't like Europe, fine, but the man's a tit and how he became a credible 'common man' I'll never know.
Publicity. Farage got a lot of pre-election publicity. And when Alex Salmond protested that a lot of that publicity came through the supposedly-neutral BBC, Alasdair Darling accused Salmond of being like the dictator of North Korea who wants to control his media. This is what I mean about negativity. It's gone way way over the top.
Any corporation that claims to be neutral but plasters images of the fucking idiot holding a pint and laughing about some apparent victory is hardly to be trusted. I must admit, I like the idea that an independent Scotland would be allowed to join the Nordic Alliance, that is good. Makes me wonder why the UK hasn't, or can't, since a lot of British culture is Anglo-Saxon, and yes Roman, but Britain is a melting pot. Maybe that's it.
Not so. Serbia had the first constitution in Europe in 1219. We fought valiantly against fascism in both wars, we defended Europe from the Ottomans, allowing our country to be split in three parts, the one closest to Austro-Hungarian Empire (now ethnically cleansed Serbian Krajina) was the last bastion. The Balkans are the cradle of European civilisation with continuous human habitation for the past 40,000 years, urban history of over 12,000 years, and yet, according to the European Union, we are not Europeans. We are 'out of the club' officially. Because that's all Europe really is, a political club with differing alliances, depending on the year and the century. The whole thing is thwarted in power struggles, repeated genocides and control. Europe as one nation is a fantasy for that reason. The reality is Europe under control of one nation, and small nations fighting enslavement, bullying and exploitation. And as much as I detest Tories and UKIP, I think there's wisdom in resisting incorporation of the UK into the bureaucratic machine of Brussels, because they are deeply corrupt and rather shameless and despotic in their policies.
Actually, I've never been in favour of a 'federated Europe.' Not because of all the anti-propaganda that UKIP circulates, but simply because the bigger government gets, the less likely it is to represent individual people and their interests. It's one of the reasons I support (and have always supported) the idea of Scottish independence. However, the EU exists now, and its efficiency is a different issue. What makes me laugh, though, is that one of the scare stories the UK government CONSTANTLY circulates—and indeed seeks corroboration for, as we discovered with David Cameron's dealings with Spain—is that Scotland will be OUT of Europe if it votes for independence. This is supposed to be a Bad Thing. However, then the same UK government threatens to leave the EU if the EU doesn't give it a lot more autonomy—and has promised a referendum on the subject, knowing that a large majority of people in England will vote to get out. So ...if Scotland votes to stay in the UK, it's very likely to be out of Europe anyway. This is just crap.
Agreed. I'll be voting to stay in the EU, and don't think that I think that I do not sympathise with the Baltic people. Anyone in Europe should join the EU, and we all have a lot to thank them for. The Balkans and Greece are the parents of Europe. It is time those in Brussels admitted that.
Um, just so you all know, I didn't think Europe was a single country. I'm aware it's a continent with multiple nations with their own cultures. (I also am aware that Africa is a continent, not a single country also. ) To be frank, I honestly don't really have an opinion one way or another about the UK-EU, or Scotland-UK. :/ I'm more curious as to how Scotland would pull off splitting from the UK than the UK splitting from the EU.
To your first question, because its America. America sticks their business where it doesn't belong all the time, thinking it is their business. Look at what happened to the Middle East. Sure America left, but they left the war torn areas in a mess.
Well done @jannert. I was just about to go into a lengthy diatribe, being as I was also somewhat perturbed about the 'mother country' comment but as you covered so many bases so eloquently I'll leave at that As you rightly said, the right to self-determination should be the very foundation on which democracy is built and whilst everyone is entitled to their opinion, I do wish in this instance, people from out with Scotland would spare us their ill-informed or self-serving opinions. It is for the very real political reasons you so astutely highlighted that I am counting down the days till the vote.
Yeah, me too. I think a YES result will be good for both sides of this border. I shudder to think of the reprisals a NO vote will bring. I'm delighted that, as a new UK citizen, this is going to be my first election on these shores. Couldn't have conjured up a better one.
I think it's much simpler than that. Trident. The UK buys its warheads from the USA and stashes them in Scotland. This gives the USA a nuclear foothold in Europe. Scotland votes YES, the weapons go, because England claims it doesn't have a suitable port where the subs can be based. (Glasgow is fine, but none of the English cities apparently are.) The USA stands to lose a LOT of revenue and influence if the Trident option gets scrapped. I think that's what's motivating Obama.
