From what I've heard, the professional writing world is harsh, unforgiving, impersonal, and blunt, on the whole. Publishers will not coddle you. I briefly thought this forum was harsh when I first joined, but then I thought hang on a second, this is more like a simulation of the real publishing industry - there are rules you must abide by, whatever they may be, and if you are creative enough to make it you'll learn the ways to make the rules work for you. I'm personally all in favour of the two-review rule. I do not want to find myself at another place where the best reply you get is 'yeh that was gd ' and in their signature, says 'READ MY STORY PLZ!!!! THX' I'd rather have a harsh but honest review plz, thx.
I disagree. Again, this panders to the idea that improvement comes from outside oneself. I don't believe this in the least. The writer whose nib is honed by others will forever be dependent on those others. You must learn to hone your own nib on your own strop and this comes from the act of... honing not being honed. This is not esoteric; this is logic.
I joined this forum just hours ago. I took the time to read the rules and almost all other documents that I was asked to read via a standard private message. Found them very clear personally. I have given 3 reviews so far and I think they are thorough, at least they are serious. I love the review rule, because it makes the forum so much more interactive. Plus, I hopefully won't find myself waiting for a review for ages. The only negative aspect is that the whole system is a bit scary for new members - at least for me. I have no idea if my reviews are good enough and do not feel like getting threads locked so for now I'll refrain from posting any work until I got the hang of the forums a bit more. Maybe that is exactly what they want but I can imagine that it puts off some people. What would help (I haven't found this yet) is a guideline on what a good review is. There is a thread that helps you with reviewing but that one does not specify when a review should be good enough to be counted. I do understand that you can not specify this for every single review out there, but with some basic guidelines it might be clearer - especially to new members. Xeni~
Not entirely disagreeing with you everybody needs to work and become independent. However there were areas my writing would not have improved as fast if at all without the help I have received from other people. I know I have a tendancy to overedit so feedback helps me know what actually only needs a light touch. I knew I had a problem with fight scenes so I got someone who was good at them to give me feedback etc There is one scene recently I would never ever have got right without the help of someone male. Thanks to other people's help intiallly and reviews I am now slowly starting to independantly use commas in the right places (not perfect but I actually understand a bit better). I didn't know what a dialogue beat was until it was brought up in a review etc. If I ask a reviewer to explain what they mean when I don't understand I grow as a writer. Its a two way process - like with my main area of speaking, as you learn to evaluate others, you evaluate yourself better and work improves but you may also as a speaker have something pointed out you didn't know etc
You've hit the nail on the head. Good reviews come in as many colors and flavors as the candies in Willy Wonka's factory so it is impossible to delineate what a good review is. A poor review, on the other hand, can be seen from a mile away. It is short, cursory, does not even attempt to delve into the work, and reeks of impatience.
It is very easy to see the difference between a good and a bad review, I fully agree with you on that. And when you look at it from your point of view, the guideline thread to reviewing (which is there) should be sufficient if you are really interested in all aspects of the site and not solely looking for compliments about your own work. It still makes the entire process a bit scary to newbies like me though
Just don't be afraid to get your hands dirty. In a review, most of what you will bring to the table is your opinion on the piece. Opinions do not answer to right and wrong. That is why they should never be confused with facts. As a writer, I don't agree with 75% of the reviews that I see, but that is not my place to say. As a mod I look for the person's intent in the review and effort. Someone who shows serious effort is, to me, someone who is serious and worth taking the trouble to help. Someone who shows no effort could not buy my time. And just to add to my previous sentiment.... I don't mean that getting a review is worthless to the writer. Of course it helps. But not so much as the knowledge you gain when you are the reviewer and not the reviewed. Many do not see the gains to be had from reviewing because they treat the review as an obstacle to be surmounted instead of the goal to be attained.
I disagree. This is one of the better open critique sites on the internet. It has a good dynamic, and the proper focus on improvement through critiquing and being critiqued. To say more than that is disingenuous.
there's nothing at all disingenuous* about what this 72-year-old, 'old hand' at rating internet writing sites thinks of this one's ranking, ei... i've been a member of many over the years and can say unequivocally that this is 'by far the best'! and, btw, that is obviously my opinion, so how can you say it's not my opinion, which is, in effect, what you just did? you are free, of course, to present your own opinion, but you cannot negate mine... so, what writing site/s have you found that would make this one be not 'by far the absolute best'? [*"lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere" --dictionary.com]
It doesn't really matter whether this is or isn't the best site. Whether or not we change something about writingforums.org should actually have NOTHING to do with how it compares to other sites; rather, it should have to do with whether the change would actually improve it. Being the "best" site doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement. Likewise, not being the best doesn't mean that we have to panic and change everything. I guess what I'm saying is...this thread is getting rather irrelevant.
I know something that can be improved about this site, is that the forum should have more interesting contests instead of just limited ones on theme. It gets boring after a while. I'm sure that people have interesting story themes rather than the one we have to go by. We should be able to choose are own theme, or maybe not having only one set theme. It would be better if we can have fictioin story contests. Maybe writing the best conflict in a story. I'm just suggesting.
Oh.my.gosh - a few of the posters on this thread seem rather snooty haha. All I was doing was making a suggestion, I made an honest effort to make reviews that might be helpful. You're all saying this is a learning site, and that learning through the review process is most beneficial. However, if my reviews were met with such disrespect from the moderators, then what on earth makes me want to continue using this forum, hmmmm?? Of course the idea of reviewing 2 others' pieces of work is ultimately helpful, but that being my first ever interaction with this forum and being met with such abrasive comments made me feel like I just shouldn't bother I would so Love to become an accomplished Writer, and my aim is to one day achieve this, but I would like to see more appreciation for younger/new aspiring writers on this forum please, as should things change for the better I would gladly let my Friends know about it - should it remain the same, however, then I'm afraid I shant be visiting too often, sorry Besides, this section of the forum is titled 'Suggestions and feedback' is it not?? Therefore if I wanted to be met with a discussion, I would've posted it in the 'Chat' section
What if you don't HAVE any criticism of the work? Are you just supposed to skip giving a review and move on to a work that needs more work? Who's deciding what a "constructive" critique is anyway? Are you saying our reviews are being reviewed? Maybe you should critique my critiques to help me better critique the work of others. I hav3 reviews (2 were removed) per 7 posts (2 of which were my own work). I really thought I'd met the criteria, but then Mr. Cogito busts out a form letter on me, telling me I may or may not have done whatever, and when I enquire---- no response. It's a little rude.
If you read a work and honestly see no way to improve it then sure, skip it and find another. You should consider yourself lucky to have found perfection and that, I would imagine, should be plenty enough of a reward for your time. Seriously, guys/gals this is not that hard. Read a story, spend 5 mins on it and tell the author what they can improve. There is ALWAYS something that can be better in your opinion. The writing world is not kind. Consider the MODs' forum letter to be training for the rejection letters you will get in the real world. Here is the FIRST rejection I ever got: That is real world. Would you reply to their editors and complain that their rejection letter was too harsh?
Can't help but laugh my @$$ off at this one! I've gotten a few of those reject letters myself. This place is tame compared to some of those! It's a much more comfortable environment to grow some thick skin.
Quite some letter... but it's reality. I should probably consider myself lucky. Considering what I saw fit to submit in my very first submission back in the day, the publisher was quite kind...
I don't think there is a question of popularity of the site it already has that. I think it is fair to give two critiques and I am sorry you feel like you should be a special exception to this rule that everyone else has followed. You work hard on your writing as do I, and we owe each other to work equally as hard on our critiques. If you just want people to read your work and tell you they like it go to myspace and show your friends your work. If you want to be part of a critiquing site like this one then learn to critique. You know your critiques were both quickly thrown out there to say you did two and post your work. Both of your critiques combined were not as long as your complaint about having to do them. Not to mention were filled with typos which shows the writer you did not respect their work enough to actually take the time to give proper feedback before asking for yours. Sorry if you find this response snotty, but I find your complaint selfish, and equally as snotty.
I'm a "noob" & I'm happy to critique. It helps me learn as well as critiques I get in return. I'm a firm believer in "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours."
Not you, I didn't mean all noobs, but it seems like I've been seeing a lot more irrational gripe threads from people with four posts and two crappy reviews the last few weeks.
It seems to go like that for a while, then slow down once they realise the rules are not in fact going to be amended just to suit their whims. And the new posters who do follow the rules fit in and then I just forget they are supposed to be new.
I must agree with you, Forkfoot. There's a lot of whining on here. I'm noticing that a lot of the noobs are young. Maybe that has something to do with it. They haven't been doing this (writing / submitting) enough to get a taste of the real world & develop an appreciation of a good give & take forum.
But why? We're not whining... YOUR just being to mean! Your picking on everyone who comes along! lol. Really though, I do have a question, may already of been answered, but not got much free time to look atm, what is the length of the reviews/sugestions needed to put towards posting something? I've done 3 or 4 so far, but yet to have my topic unlocked, 2 done before my topic post, they may be a little to small, but I wouldn't mind knowing the size I need to work to. Browsed a little, nm.
