It came out yesterday and I was just wondering if anyone here had read it. I know some people received it early due to a mix-up with release dates. If so, what are your thoughts????
No spoilers will be within: I've read about 70 pages. It is good. VERY good. I'm already much more interested in it than I was with A Feast For Crows, even though the events run parallel. The POV characters are great, as is to be expected. I also got a kick out of GRRM's dedication in the beginning
I've read the first 200 pages and it looks good so far. I tried skimming ahead just to see if there were any POVs that I really wanted to read. I didn't see one for Arya, which has me ticked off so I'm hoping I just missed it rather than her not being in the book.
^Arya was in the last book, wasn't she? So if she's in this one at all, it'll be toward the end... I've finished two chapters so far, and I'm loving it. I wish I could just sit and read all day.
Yea, the last book left Arya's fate at a cliffhanger, which filled me with all sorts of NERD RAGGGGEEEE!!!!
Regarding the question above Spoiler Arya makes an appearance, as does !Fake Arya! It's better than Feast for Crows. More Tyrion
Damn it, I clicked on the spoiler... Not that it really gave anything away, but still. I feel so weak-willed.
I've found it to be really good so far. I told myself I would only read a few POV's a day to savior it since it will probably be awhile for the next novel. But I couldn't help myself. I'm about 400 pages in and it's very good. There is a lot of Tyrion and Jon which is great. Daenerys has never really interested me but I find myself enjoying her story in this book. These three take up most of the book. But that doesn't mean the minor POV's aren't as good. A very good book so far.
I'm reading the book on my Kindle which lets me know the percent that I've read so far. I'm trying not to rush through it in order to avoid the inevitable feeling of sadness I feel when I know I'm almost done with a good book. Spoiler Was anyone surprised by the appearance of yet another Targaryen? I've read theories that Jon is also a Targaryen (the offspring of Lyanna and Rhaegar) but I was pleasantly surprised to see Rhaegar's son!
Wow. That one ended...well, let's just say if the next book doesn't come out within a year or three, I'll be right pissed! Damn you GRRM and your cliffhangers!
My copy just arrived today. Woo-hoo Hopefully HBO will be on his ass and force him to complete it faster.
I never knew if these books were worth it, maybe I should try. I was going to watch the show but it seemed to be too much nudity and sexual situations.
They kind of went a bit overboard with the nudity and the sex with the series compared to the novels. Granted there is graphic sex but not as much as the show. It didn't bother me, but I know it bothers some. However, it's one of the best fantasy series out there. I'd definitely recommend it.
If anything the show toned it down, especially the sexual violence. We can only hope they do the same with Harrenhal because I can live without that. Granted Ros the whore is a creation of the show and all of her scenes involve nudity, but the books haven't exactly been short on sex or nudity. So having had time to think about it, I think Dance with Dragons is a solid entry into the series- not quite so good as AGOT or ASOS, significantly better than AFFC, and on par or slightly better than ACOK. I've wanted to post some thoughts on the book for a while, and I guess this is the best thread for it. Comments below discuss the entire book, so if you have any intention of reading it and haven't done so already don't click below: Spoiler ********No seriously, here be spoilers********* No way Jon is actually dead. If he is, the Wall, and probably the entire North, is completely and utterly screwed. He's the only thing holding the tenuous alliance between the Night's Watch and the Wildlings in place. His assassination would mean the end of the Night's Watch. On that note, Marsh is an absolute moron. I can understand his frustration- and I like the way they slowly built throughout the book because while I found the stabbings surprising, in retrospect all the clues were there. But as I said above, Jon's death, especially combined with the possible death of Stannis (I don't think he's dead, Ramsey is just posturing and capitalizing on the fact that he actually does have Mance) leaves the Wall in utter chaos. No wonder the Others haven't put in a showing in four books, they can just let the Crows and Free Folk take care of each other. Including Jon's, the Northern storylines were easily my favourite parts of the book. Lord Manderly is absolutely incredible and I hope he gets a POV chapter or two next book. The Melisandre chapter was more than welcome, I just wish there'd been one or two more.Also Bran and Davos showed up, were awesome, had awesome plots, and disappeared way too early. My only disappointment with the Northern chapters was that there weren't more of them. I've always liked Asha best of the Ironmen POV's, and in particular her march with Stannis's army was a highlight. But in terms of writing quality I think her brother's chapters stole the show. Theon's scenes were harrowing, possibly the most disturbing storyline in the entire series. Martin did an excellent job portraying Theon's madness, and his struggles to find... not the man he was, because he was pretty awful, but maybe the man he always wanted to be. His escape and reunion with Asha was easily the most satisfying chapter in the book for me. Now they, their Ironmen, and possibly the Braavosi merchantman need to get some revenge on Ramsey. Can't wait to read the fall of the Boltons. In a book rife with monsters, none are so horrifying as Roose and Ramsey. I didn't like the Essos and Slaver's Bay plots as much. The Barriston Selmy, and to a lesser extent Jon Connington chapters did well to ease the bitter taste of the eastern sections. I think Aegon will prove to be the Mummer's Dragon of Daenerys's visions, quickly blown aside when (if) the dragons land in Westeros, but it will be interesting to see what trouble he can cause in the meanwhile. I figured out where Daenerys's plot was going way too early, which made it a bit of a slog to get through. The Green Grace is the Harpy, and Dany's husband is obviously aligned with her. I guess the dragons were the best part of her plot- Drogon's return in particular will be a daunting challenge for HBO should the television series last long enough. In some ways, I think her plot, and its resolution, is similar (and yet oddly enough contrasting) to Wheel of Time protagonist Rand's ending point in 'The Gathering Storm.' The mask she's hid behind 'I'm a young girl who knows nothing of war,' has proven, while frustratingly accurate, an impenetrable obstacle holding her back from what she must do, as have her desires- for Daario (ugh I hope he was the first in the Yellow City's catapults), and her dreams for Meerneen. Though her heart is certainly in the right place she's completely disrupted the city's economy and is trying to forge an impossible peace with the city's elite, all of whom were slavers, without bloodshed. Much as I loathed her mooning over him, Daario was right when he said the only way she could truly ensure the safety and freedom of her city was by shedding blood. Fire and Blood and all that. Though Daenerys frustrated me throughout the book, I did still enjoy her chapters more than I have in previous books. In part I think it's because we're seeing hints that her sanity is starting to fray, and while she is certainly the wildcard with regards to the 'game of thrones' in Westeros and their best chance against the Others, she also may well be the single most dangerous person in the world. With that in mind, the Quentyn storyline is almost worthwhile. Dragons are dangerous, beings of pure magical fire, and being able to control them is a magic in and of itself. Determination, bloodline, and honour are not enough. Still, especially given the ending of the last book which had me anticipating Quentyn's quest, his chapters were very disappointing. My biggest disappointment however, shocking as it may seem, was Tyrion. Granted he was entertaining, especially in the first half, but I found his plot meandering and pointless. Hopefully he reaches Daenerys soon, because she needs him, and he needs to be rid of Penny. Victarion's chapters were odd in that I enjoyed reading them, but without him actually arriving in Meereen they felt incomplete. His interactions with Moqorro were extremely interesting, and served as an illustration of a major shift in the seriesk. The supernatural has become far more prevalent- whether it be magic, religion, dragons, or maesters opposing the supernatural. And even with it playing a much larger role, I still don't really know how it works. Which is pretty awesome. I love Brandon Sanderson's books and his detailed magic systems, but in my opinion there is something more compelling and daunting in Martin's approach to magic. It's there, it's deadly, and it's very much unknown. Even Melisandre seems to have little grasp on how it all works. I liked Arya's chapters, but it's time to get her back into the game. With her assassin skills there are many interesting turns her story can take. I hope Jaime isn't dead, especially not at zombie Catelyn's hands. Will be interesting to see Nym Sand's reaction to Zombie Gregor. Ser Kevan The Epilogue was great, but the wait for the next book is going to suck.
Haha I wanted to quote the beginning of your post but totally forgot that when you quote it doesn't hide the spoilers...you should have seen me squinting while I deleted that part so I didn't see any of it. Anyhoo, I totally agree. I mean, yeah, there was a lot of nakedness and sexytimes in the show, but I think it just seemed like more because we were seeing it and not reading about it. I wanted to recommend the books to my family, but I couldn't because of all the sex.
I have had my copy for awhile now and have only made it to the part where Davos reaches White Harbor. I got to admit I thought I be finished by now. lol Hot damn(is that an actual expression? Didn't feel like taking the lords name in vain atm) I am tempted to read this entire thread but I dont want to be spoiled at all. In fact I read a first sentence on one of the posts here and I was like "Crap its going to be like when whatshisface was told how awesome the ending of his favorite comic was. I mean the socks are already knocked off. You can't knock them off again!!" pretty sure that was from Big Bang Theory btw or something. I really need to get reading!
@ Agreen I think I may actually have to go back and reread the book. I can't even remember some of the things you mentioned probably because I rushed through the first time. Spoiler I can't believe Jon is dead either. I read a theory somewhere that you might be interested to hear. Given the shadow around Lyanna's death, do you think it is possible that Jon is Lyanna's child fathered by Rhaegar? In Ned's recollection of her death, he mentioned blood and her insistence for him to 'Promise me.' I think Jon is a Targaryen and he is the ice to Daenarys' fire.
The following contains spoilers for just about everything. Spoiler I have been wondering if Lyanne and Rhaegar were Jon's parents for awhile now. Especially now more then ever after just finishing the book. A few times during ADWD that tournament where Rhaegar made Lyanne the Queen of Love and Beauty(I think thats the title) just felt off and out of place. That is until Lyanne's death was never really explained. It's been shrouded in mystery for much of the series. There is also that promise. Now I was always pissed that HBO left that out. I mean it does seem unimportant for AGOT and most of the books afterwards but... it felt important enough to be included in some way. So yes. I think that it only makes sense that they are his parents. At the very least something important happened between the two of them. Something that suggest perhaps the whole Rebellion might not have been about Mad Aerys but of love. Oh wouldnt that be something?(just made it up on the spot. But I know something very crucial happened after Rhaegar won the tourny.) Now to other stuff As for Jon Snow being dead? Unlikely. Heres a good reason why. 1) Ghost was not seen being killed. 2) The new Warg with the Boar just arrived. I wouldnt be surprised if perhaps this guy will teach Jon what it means to be a skinchanger and all that. But then again my first thoughts were 'Kill the Boar Guy!! Its obvious Jon's assassins were being controled' But who knows? But he is not dead. I wont believe it until he is either confirmed dead or he is confirmed Undead. Though I got a very very scary thought of what the Wall might look like without Jon. I mean they still have two dead bodies in the Ice Cells and even Jon forgotten about them. Now who is to say those dead bodies haven't just been laying there waiting? What if some of the Brothers got their way? There are THOUSANDS of Wildings... now I cant remember if Wights can bring the dead back or not.... But whose to say there are not different types of wights? Alot of wildling deaths take along time to clean up... As for the Wall. I have to admit I was sad to see it still standing. Though I wonder if the fabeled Horn of Winter(or whatever its real name is) has been hiding at that place Mother Mole has gathered the wildlings to wait for the ships. You know someone finds it... someone blows it... Its amazing how no one seems to understand what Jon was doing though. No one was really on his side. Even the Red Priestess(I forget how to spell her name) wanted those with Mother Mole to die. Are you shitting me? What part of THOUSANDS of Wights dont they understand? Tormunds(orwhateverhisnameis) had like 3.1k wildlings following him. Many of them were lost by the Wights and Others. What does that mean? Also its amazing how ignorant the Kneelers are of the Freefolk's ways. No matter how many times he explained to them it doesnt matter. As for Rhllor I still dont trust any of the red priests. Morroqqo or whatever seemed ok. But Mellisandre's(was I even close?) group scare me. Thanks to Cersei Stannis will be fighting now just a war for his Throne but a full on Religious War. Her insistance that they all bow before R'hllor is going to cause some thorns in the Warrior's Sons and the Sparrows. Cersei. You know I felt sorry for her... That walk was just brutal. The way she was acting afterwards... this should be interesting. Personally I thinks he will be proven Innocent. Yay Zombie Gregor Clegane!! ... God I hope he is a zombie. Though it does bring to question something. Whose skull was it that was sent to Dorne? Then again maybe it isnt Zombie Mountain Who Rides? One more thing. Also while im on Zombies and the Red God. I dunno but something about Red Priests bringing back the dead is rather unnerving. Speaking of unnerving. Greyscales!! Ok so the disease Greyscales has been present in the book since atleast the second book when we meet Stannis's daughter. It was just a horrible disease. Fastforward to ADWD and its been popping up more. While mentioned in other books we actually see a whole giant group of them during Tyerion's PoV. Jon Cunnington is suffering from it. We learn from Val that there is something more to Greyscales and she is scared of the little girl. Hmm yes. I definitely think Greyscales will play some crucial part later on and not for the better. Moving on. Tyrion. I loved his PoV chapters. I am still unsure what I think of Penny though. Speaking of Tyrion it would be rather rude not to mention Cyvasse. Aka the game where a giant wall is put down the middle of the board and each opponent arranges his or her pieces. When I finally realized that part of the game, the blinder, I couldnt help but laugh. Perhaps Tyrion's talent at Cyvasse may prove to be useful. Also the Pale Mare or the Flux. Those bodies being thrown over the walls of Meereen? Ten bucks says they are victims of the flux. Hell why not? The Yunkai camps are being over run by the disease. Even Danny seems to have come down with it(btw I hope she doesnt go mad like her Mad Aerys. I mean she was hallucinating and what not but... well I am hoping it was because she has the flux and whatnot) If they are not and they are the hostages... or maybe they are... I wouldnt be surprised if they started sending flux victims over next. Daenerys(sp?) I sorta enjoyed her PoV but I really hated that whole Daario thing. But I do think that sometime in the next book or so Danny will have rebuilt her Khalsar. She was left standing beside Drogon as the riders came upon her. It will be interesting to see how her storyline unfolds. Victarian and the Hell Horn. God I am not looking forward to when he sounds that horn. He knows how its to be used. But I just dont want to see the Ironmen with Dragons. If things continue as far as Danny is concerned I might not want to see her with them either(a Mad Queen with three dragons... Not good) But his chapters were fun to read aswell. Its also scary how quick he seemed to have joined R'hllor and The Drowned God together. As far as his crew is concerned when he offered those slave girls to both Gods it didnt seem to disturb any of them. Either it was done out of respect of their leader or fear. But I wouldnt be shocked when some of the Ironborn start leaning towards the Red God. Oh one more thing i forgot about that scene when I was talking about Morroqqo(or whateverhisnameis) I dont like him anymore. Jamie. Damn damn DAMN!! What was that 1 word? It was also rather annoying how quickly Jaimie entered and then left the book. Was he betrayed by Brienne? Had Brienne said something to Zombie Catelyn and Jaimie has somehow joined forces? Is he imprisoned? Will he be waiting his execution(hoping not. Mostly because half the characters seem to end up imprisoned and waiting execution. Oh what ever happened to Davos? Hell whatever happened to Rickon?) Arya. I was happy to hear that she got her sight back. As fascinating as the Faceless Ones are and the whole God of Many Faces is. I just... I just dont want Arya to become that. I almost expected her last response in the book to the question "Who are you?" to be "Anyone and No one." or something. Personally I am not liking this new Arya. Something about it is just off. But I like that her stubborn and fierce personality hasnt disappeared. I had a feeling when Needle was quietly tucked away hidden that she would return to it one day. But it was interesting and fun to read. Oh and Mance and his Spearwives. I got to admit it wasnt until their escape of Winterfell did I actually realize who they were. I mean... come on! It was so obvious. I nearly kicked myself for not picking up on it sooner. Quentyn. I didnt like his story really. I mean what on earth was he thinking? Theon. I actually felt really sorry for him. My name is reek, it rhymes with weak. Was also happy to learn that he didnt actually try and kill Bran and Rickon. He knew they were just some millers boys. Doesnt make him a hero or anything but... well it makes a difference. Always wondered how Theon could have mistaken them. I think I have covered everything. Atleast for now. Great book.
Damit reading all Unit7's and Agreen's spoilers is like a spoiler for the entire series. I've read a Dance with Dragons but you're making me think about revelations that might actually occur in later books. And when it does, I won't be blown away. I'll say to myself I heard it first on writingforums.org. All in all I still find A Song of Ice and Fire, one of, if not the most unpredictable series out there. With the way Martin has structured each book, it's impossible to tell where each character is going. A Dance of Dragons was no exception. There's such a profusion of main characters that he can kill any one of them and the story will soldier on. That's what I love about this series. Expect nothing. There's no duel between the main protagonist and arch antagonist that the plot is building up towards. I'd actually be quite impressed with Martin if one of the cliffhangers, as devastating as it was, turns out to be as it appeared.
I'll be blown away if any of the things I thought might happen actually happen. You never know how this story will unfold. I know which one you are talking to but I have a feeling its not what it appeared to be. Especially after the way the Prince of Dorn's story ended. I mean what happened to him should have been the end of the his story right there but it lingered on for a bit. If you know what I mean.
