1. Artist369

    Artist369 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest

    Sentence Structure, two verbs, one subject

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Artist369, Nov 24, 2014.

    Is the following sentence structure is considered valid by conventional editors in the fiction writing field?:

    I do want to be clear, so if things aren't coming across correctly, I'd like to know. There's a lot of -ing verbs I've stuffed in clauses in my writing. I'm trying to rewrite them to deliver a closer experience for the reader. I feel "swiped at her brow" sounds better than "swiping at her brow", but I'm not sure if it works. Usually I would just put "and" in the middle. For example:

    But in the interest of variation, I wondered if I could drop it. Just a note- I do use the other "swiping at her brow" structure too, just trying to cut back. Much thanks.
     
  2. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    23,826
    Likes Received:
    20,820
    Location:
    El Tembloroso Caribe
    This is a structure I would use myself because I like its brevity and focus on the actions without intervening mechanical words. A prescriptive grammarian will tell you it's wrong; a descriptive grammarian will tell you it works and delivers a particular feel. It is technically non-standard, so don't do it every third sentence, but in the narrative of a piece of fiction, this falls under artistic license and it's not even that much license being applied. ;)
     
    Artist369 likes this.
  3. stevesh

    stevesh Banned Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    651
    Location:
    Mid-Michigan USA
    That must be me. I don't see anything important that's added by omitting the 'and'. I would also suggest it would better as 'wiped the sweat from her brow' or 'swiped at the sweat from her brow'.
     
    GingerCoffee and Artist369 like this.
  4. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,261
    Likes Received:
    13,082
    I find myself wondering about "ing" verbs and "a closer experience for the reader" and wondering if you've gotten bad advice somewhere....

    But I'm dragging myself away from that, because while I don't understand the "closer experience" part, I do aprove of maximizing the variety of sentence structures.

    So. I think that to be technically correct (and you may choose not to be technically correct), you can't say, "Subject verbed, verbed." but instead must say, "Subject verbed and verbed." Or "Subject verbed, verbed, verbed, and verbed."

    Also "swiped...noun...at" seems odd. So I would change it to:

    Sarah staggered across the finish line and swiped the sweat from her brow.
    or
    Sarah staggered across the finish line and swiped at the sweat on her brow.
    or
    Sarah staggered across the finish line, swiped the sweat from her brow, and collapsed.

    That said, fiction writing doesn't always have to be technically correct. Whether the "Subject verbed, verbed." construction adds to or detracts from your own writing voice is impossible for me to tell without a much longer sample.

    Edited to add: Hmm. I thought that I didn't use the construction, but I more or less do. I just cut the actions into separate sentences, adding yet another incorrectness:

    Jane opened the door. Dropped her backpack. Dropped her keys. Collapsed on the couch. "I'm never going outside again. Bring me a Coke?"
     
    GingerCoffee likes this.
  5. Fitzroy Zeph

    Fitzroy Zeph Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    269
    Location:
    Canada
    I find myself asking, "and then" as if something is missing with the structure the way it is. ...swiped the sweat at her brow, then kicked the guy who'd cut her off in the balls.
     
    GingerCoffee likes this.
  6. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,385
    Likes Received:
    7,081
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    Just going by 'feel' and not by a rule I can cite, it needs the conjunction (and or then).

    The reason has to do with the consequent nature of the actions, and maybe also the distance between the two verbs.

    I leave some conjunctions out, rule or no rule, as a style choice to break up a monotonous cadence. But you would want to see a parallel relationship between the verbs and the subject. In the above sentence the relationship is consequent between the verbs. Like @Fitzroy Zeph says, without the conjunction, one expects a third action.

    Also I agree with the above comments that "swiped" is the wrong verb unless the action was more than just wiping sweat, like swiped at and missed some of it.
     
    Artist369 likes this.
  7. Artist369

    Artist369 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Yeah, I think wiped is a better verb. Thanks. Silly me. Yeah ChickenFreak, it's more of the fact that I was putting in participle phrases everywhere. I need more varying structure. And less words make it faster-paced.
     
  8. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4,628
    Likes Received:
    3,817
    Location:
    occasionally Oz , mainly Canada
    Is there anything wrong with mixing tenses in a sentence like this? My instinct would've been to write it -
    Sarah staggered across the finish line, swiping at the sweat on her brow.
     
    Fitzroy Zeph likes this.
  9. Fitzroy Zeph

    Fitzroy Zeph Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    269
    Location:
    Canada
    I like this much better as it tags on more information by way of a phrase. It tells me exactly the same thing and reads clear. The original version has a speed bump to it that causes me to go back and wonder what the heck is going on which just upsets the flow of reading.
     
  10. Artist369

    Artist369 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Only if you use that sentence structure over and over, like me! XD Just asking about variation. In fact, this sentence isn't even in my writing. It was a pure example. But I did mention at the top that I still use that particular structure. I'm just trying different approaches.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
    peachalulu likes this.
  11. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4,628
    Likes Received:
    3,817
    Location:
    occasionally Oz , mainly Canada
    That's a toughie. I usually let context dictate changes cause I have issues with gerunds.
     
  12. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,385
    Likes Received:
    7,081
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    This is not mixing tenses, it's just saying while she staggered she was in the act of wiping. In the original sentence, one act followed the other.
     
    peachalulu likes this.
  13. Fitzroy Zeph

    Fitzroy Zeph Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    269
    Location:
    Canada
    I kinda like gerunds, but often hear they are considered the weaker method of expression. I guess too much of anything is not good.
     
    peachalulu likes this.
  14. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,565
    Location:
    California, US
    The structure doesn't bother me. I've seen it increasingly used in the last decade or so, particularly among thrillers or fast-paced novels. How comfortable an editor is with it may depend, to some extent, on the genre you are writing in.
     
  15. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    36,161
    Likes Received:
    2,830
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    It isn't two verbs. It's one verb and a participle phrase. The latter acts as an adverb. The greatest caveat with this structure is that the action described by the participle phrase occurs simultaneously with, and for the full duration of, the main action.

    In this case, you can reasonably argue that the condition holds, but in others it is ridiculous, e.g.:
    She fled down the street, slamming the door behind her.

    Wrong, unless she somehow continues slamming the door as she runs.

    Also, this is not a gerund. A gerund is a present participle used as a noun:

    Swimming is excellent exercise.
     
    peachalulu and BayView like this.
  16. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,261
    Likes Received:
    13,082
    I assume that you mean that the "-ing" version is a participle phrase? The following has two verbs and no participle phrase, right? If not, then I need to go read up on things that I'm confused about.

    Sarah crossed the finish line and grabbed a bottle of water.
     
    Artist369 likes this.
  17. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    I think a lot of writers are being warned off -ing endings because too often they fall into the trap Cogito referred to, making it sound like two actions are happening simultaneously when they really aren't.

    In the OP example, I like the participle phrase ("wiping the sweat..."). If your writing has too many of those, I'm not sure that just switching to another sentence with almost the same structure would really give you enough variety to make the exercise worthwhile.
     
  18. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,420
    Likes Received:
    1,991
    This (or at least, "Sarah staggered...swiping the sweat...") implies that the swiping occurred WHILE she staggered across.

    This implies that Sarah staggered across the line, and THEN swiped the sweat.



    In Cogito's example, running up the street WHILST slamming the door behind you can't happen. You slammed the door, and THEN started running up the street.
     
  19. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    36,161
    Likes Received:
    2,830
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Yes, this is a compound sentence with an implied subject (the same subject as the first clause) in the second clause.

    I also wasn't entirely clear, the -ing form is the present participle. There is another participle, often but not always identical to the past tense, called the past participle. Both participles are combined with an auxiliary verb to form compound verb tenses, e.g. present progressive tense uses the present participle with a present tense form of the verb to be:

    Miss Carter is speaking to her staff now.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice