@BooksandCoffee bogged down by work and was in Sci-Fi mode a bit for the last couple of days. So bear with me... Arrrgh!!! Have you not been reading the explanations I've been lovingly trying to put across? Flannagan? Nightingale? Arm-strong for a person who represents mermaids and is cursed when she walks? Coleman Collins???? The names have some meaning.... I think...I hope.... Oh well, I have to disagree but can accept what you are saying...hehe. The collector? Is this Mr Peet? I was wondering about this man. By the way, William "Peet" is an illustrator and writer for Disney studios who worked on a lot of the classic fairy tales. He also had a fascination with trains. So I suspect the name was borrowed. Yes, fire... BURN THEM!!! I previously read a lot on the Malleus Maleficarum and yeah, a lot of burning of poor innocent women. *sigh* I've got nothing to add at the moment. I'm going to try and read book two all in one sitting later this week and see what I come up with. I think I actually have a better hang of this story now. It's not as confusing as I thought it might be but we'll see since we're heading to Shadowland now. To be honest, I think we should take the free form approach. And what do I mean by that? It means if we can't think of an answer, we just make it up...So by the end of it, rightly or wrongly, we have a clear narrative explanation in our mind. I'll put up a detailed breakdown of book two when I finish it later this week. But I have a work deadline this Friday, so need to put off the overanalysis for now. Just in case you're bored and in the mood for random rubbish, I'll leave you with a totally pointless and loosely related (unrelated) article about mermaids... http://www.deepseanews.com/2013/10/fishful-thinking-five-reasons-why-mermaids-cant-physically-exist/
Oh, I have been reading what you have ‘lovingly’ been trying to put across. I am betting that you are not accused of being subtle very often. LOL I never said that I thought that you were wrong; I was simply stating that it is unlikely that all authors refer to baby name books to find the meaning of names in order to match concepts in the book completely. I imagine that there are some authors that are so driven by the story that they never actually think about what the meaning of a character name might be. Hexenhammer, or The Hammer of Witches, The Malleus Maleficarum – you have spending a lot of time on that medieval work? You are an interesting woman! The free form approach is fine with me; have at it. By all means, deal with deadlines and real life issues. I completely understand how life gets in the way. I did read the article you linked, thank you for putting the link up. It was interesting; I suppose it is fortunate that I have no fantasies about mermaids.
Why is that the single most repeated observation people who don't know me make?! Validated by the fact that my husband reminds me daily that I'm as subtle as a hammer?! Note to self: More finesse, less brute force. Thinking: Who am I kidding... True, true. I'm exactly like that. So driven by the story that I never think about the meaning of a name or looking through baby name books. It makes sense; even the naming of my children was fully sub contracted to hubby. Well, to be fair, he has an awful surname such that I couldn't take it anymore and left him to it. As expected, everything he suggested sounded rather crap. So in the end I decided on the fly. Kind of like my writing. I decide on the fly...because I'm just lazy. What? That's not your point? Oh! In any case, Shadowland has made me decide to put more naming efforts in my writing. I have deep seated aspirations to become some sort of new age witch okay?! So that might require that I understand the potential hazards, or at least the history of them. I'm just too busy to spend time learning to cast spells and do wiccan rituals because it's competing with all my other interests. I mean, writing is on top of the list and so far down that I can barely remember it, is 3D programming. My wiccan goals are below even that. Yes, not much of a driving interest beyond getting spousal approval: Me: Hey, I think I want to be a Witch. Is that a problem for you? Hubby: No, as long as you practice white magic. As you'd know, too many things to do in so little time... More seriously, I've just been researching a lot on witches, sorcerers, shamanism and magic in general. This book is part of that research too. I'm lightly writing snippets but there's no definitive direction. I'm waiting until I finish this story. After all, my interest to write on magic was inspired by this book. You realize this is me setting you up to be desensitized by my outrageous claims with NO foundation as the story moves on right? *evil chuckle* Oh nice. I was writing a scene with my MC swimming in the ocean who I'm thinking, may be the lovechild of Tom and Rose. Somehow I got fixated by the temperature of the water. Next thing you know it, I was reading that article. I finished feeling rather disappointed that mermaids would be "very cold, sterile, constipated, and probably extinct". Logically, I knew they don't exist but the clinical assessment just killed any mermaid fantasies I ever had!
Look at the bright side – you are not likely to be accused of being a politician. I am with you, character names need to sound good to me, but I do not look up the meanings of the names. Perhaps I will start to check out the meanings in the future; then again, I doubt that most readers are aware of the meanings of character names. Short of a name that is gender inappropriate, or unpronounceable, I dare say that most readers probably do not really care. New age witch might even be sexy to your husband, depending on the costume; on the other hand, you might want to steer clear of Enochian Magic, The Golden Dawn, and Aleister Crowley in general. I think that whole mermaid fantasy thing was pretty much covered in the movie Splash with Tom Hanks and Daryl Hannah.
That is the problem! I could do with some diplomacy skills... It never even occurred to me but I see what you mean... Witches in old movies looked like this: Witches in new movies are still green but wear corsets like this: It'd still scare the wits out of hubby eitherway. Can you imagine? A green face staring down at him as he awakens... Could be a good trick for his next birthday. Thanks for the idea! *thumbs up* WHY? You can't throw things at me and say, don't go there. It means I will! Tom Hanks is hardly fantasy material, so I'd argue it's not been comprehensively covered enough or well. I have not read a thing... You need to give me a few more days.
By and large, when I think of most politicians the words that come to mind are prevarication and obfuscation. Diplomacy is not what comes to mind. LOL, my dear woman, Google sexy witch’s Halloween costumes – and then you will see what I mean. He should love it. Thus far, you have been discussing what some call Hedge witches. Even Wiccans, to the best of my knowledge, practice what they think of as ‘the old religion’, with God and Goddess and fertility rights and the like. What I mentioned was serious Ceremonial Magic. It is steeped in ritual, fasting, and summoning. Many people consider Aleister Crowley to have been truly evil, a sort of extremely serious version of Anton Szandor LaVey. Daryl Hannah was the mermaid – who cares about Tom Hanks. LOL No worries, this is supposed to be fun, not a chore. Take all the time you want.
Regardless, I could do with better skills in political maneuverings. Yes, I got it. Corsets, pointy hats and a complexion that only Incredible Hulk might love. Hubby is so screwed and it won't necessarily be the way he loves. hahaha I think this is a PG forum, so I better stop dragging this thread into the gutter. So don't respond to this! I focused more on the darker side of magic here because I'm inclined to think this is the book's focus. We'll see though. That's exactly right. So give me a good tale/movie where the merman is the star and I don't mean Poiseidon! This book is not a chore at all. I'll get back to my favorite gothicky world soon. As always, your virtual company has been much appreciated.
Don’t respond? That takes all the fun away, and I had such a plethora of responses in mind. Well, there is no shortage of information. Do you want the information for the book you are working on? So you want an aquatic male creature? Perhaps Jar Jar Binks from Star Wars: Episode 1 - The Phantom Menace is more your style. Once you get to know me a bit better, you might not appreciate my virtual company.
I was going to be good today and stay off the forums, but your responses are begging for responses... So let me degenerate this thread some more since I've still not read Book Two. Plethora of responses? Does one of them include you dressed in a witchy costume? Now that might be funny to know. hehe That's the problem, there's too much info out there. I was crossed eyed and weary, and then you came into my life and reminded me that I was suppose to re-read Shadowland. If you consider yourself an expert of magic, I'll pick your brain after this book. I'm not amused... Okay, not true - you're cracking me up now. It's been a few comments back, but might I remind you that 'fantasy' was a prerequisite. However, I shouldn't be so rigid in my assessment. I guess it would still be valid if you have fantasies about Jar Jar Binks. I did mention to hubby that you thought Jar Jar Binks was aquatic fantasy material. He laughed and said: "Everybody hates Jar Jar Binks." Me: "Really?!" It's been so long that I really don't remember much of Star Wars. So I just googled that right now and it seems he's kinda hated for being annoying and irrelevant. On the bright side, you'll be glad to know you're not alone in having fantasies about him. Evidence below: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2t9gv7/what_is_your_fantasy_death_of_jar_jar_binks/ Hmmm, not quite the same fantasies you could be having... Looks like you might be the only person on this planet with Jar Jar Binks kinks. << Whoa, I just rhymed! No way! What's not to love? The fact that you're the only person who likes this book and willing to indulge me is reason enough.
You were going to be good? I wonder how many times you used that line! LOL How many times have you started a conversation with your hubby by saying you were going to be good? No thanks, I am not into that, but was that some Freudian slip concerning how you might look in the costume? (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) I never claimed to be an expert on anything. I specifically said that you might find Jar Jar Binks more to your style. I never said anything about me. Could this be a case of psychological projection, you projecting your own unpleasant impulses onto me? Oh my, you are a complicated lady. hehehehe
@BooksandCoffee I hate going Shakespearean but...thou doth protest too much, methinks... But, let's not argue about aquatic fantasies. I can be discreet. (Pffft, projection...ha!) Here, have a listen to Star Wars on Cello. Sorry, Jar Jar Binks didn't make the cut, so no eye candy for you.
@LinnyV you ROCK!!!! That video was . . . impressive, MOST impressive! I loved it, great find! As for your attempt to quote The Bard – buzzzzzz, you do not even get a lousy copy of the home game. I have you all figured out with the DSM IV. LOL
I figured it might appeal to the musical sci-fi nerd in you. I went through a string instrument youtube craze a while ago and remembered this vid. What home game?!?!?! I lost?!?!?! I've never heard of that expression before... Oh well, I can accept being a lousy quoter of Bard. I'd rather go to the dentist than read Shakespeare. What?! Are you implying I am mental?! Okay, I take back all my warm fuzzy feelings of appreciation and kicking you to the virtual curb! And weren't we discussing Shadowland? Where are we? I feel like we're stuck in your fevered dream about witches in corsets, that morphed into a Tom Hanks who then turned in Jar Jar Binks in a Star Wars parody. Wake up @BooksandCoffee, this is all a bad dream, within a dream, within a dream!!!! Oh, and you need to stop self diagnosing and see a real psychiatrist! LOL I'll read something tonight in an attempt to get us back on track.
Back on the train and back on track....I finally arrived in Shadowland! That is, after a lavish description of breakfast (???) and a long wait due to a massive derailment that caused the boys to arrive late in Hilly Vale, Vermont. We finally meet Coleman Collins who is rather old and why do think of Uncle Sam? Cole's clearly on a campaign to recruit the kid. Tom intuitively knows Cole's dangerous while Del keeps making excuses for his Uncle. It's also clear the magician is trying to corrupt Tom and cause friction between the boys. He presses the point that to be a magician you need to see your audience as hostile and that you need to punish them. That, to be a powerful magician you need to get close to the ugliness and probably be the instigator of evil...Train derailments to teach a magical lesson included. But going back to the station....Through Del, we're told to pay attention to the first words his Uncle tells the boys on meeting. The main topic is about the train wreck, spilling coffee and being late. I was impatient with this conversation. I'm continually confused by Del's reactions. He is one character who does not make sense unless he's ignoring the world, worried about falling out of favor with his Uncle or seeing Tom as a competitor. To me, it's as if Coleman is strongly hinting that Del failed somehow by not experiencing the wreckage. But from the exhaustion and the foul taste experienced by Tom as they passed the wreckage, and then later by the same characters appearing pictorially in the theater, it's showing us that Cole's up to his magic tricks again. He's messing with the minds of the boys. It's a pattern now, exhaustion to the point of sleepiness and bad taste in your mouth = black magic in the form of illusions. In fact, it seems like doing any magic, at least under the influence of Cole, is usually associated with badness. Is that one of the key messages in this book? Real magic is evil? Also, what 's up with the beaver bashing? It just comes across as a senseless scene of animal cruelty for the beaver and dogs involved to induce....a trance? I did not enjoy any of this writing. It didn't scare me, it didn't even gross me out, it was just unnecessary because it achieved nothing other than have me wonder, what is you point Straub?! For a moment, I wondered if those trolls were representative of the 7 dwarves but I only counted 6! Then there's Herbie, the robotic mannequin who is Cole even though he appears ageless. All achieved by magic but I couldn't believe all the magic in the world could make the aging drunken Cole into a nimble, ageless acrobat artist. Cannot suspend my disbelief that far. The déjà vu element of the school experiences being paralleled in Shadowland is irritating. I'm not liking this technique and makes the reading a bit of a chore. So I'm taking off my rose tinted glasses for a formerly loved book, and giving it the thumbs down on this aspect of the story telling. I got weary with the Dead Princess, singing Sparrows to croaky Frog story. It could be been compacted and still told me what I needed to know. Which I suspect is that Coleman intends to trick the boys, using Rose as bait, to steal their powers. The big decision will be whether to sacrifice flight or song. I guess we'll complete the full circle back to this point at the end. Because as far as I am concerned Coleman is out to steal from his little bird apprentices. And for whatever reason, because I get distracted too easily, I ended up looking up bird singing. *sigh* Here, @BooksandCoffee since language is a hobby thing for you....maybe try to some bird language in the below article "How and Why Birds Sing". Or at least get ringing in your ears from listening to the bird singing samples like I did. https://academy.allaboutbirds.org/birdsong/ Also, I finally met the Brothers Grimm. ANNOYING!!!!! Straub could have cut that whole section out completely and I'd not have missed it. This is the author getting way too fanciful. I'm also very disappointed that it was them hidden behind the secret door that must not be passed. Why not a time machine???? A new dimension and I'm thinking Narnia? Dead bodies?????????? Anything but the Brothers. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! And a lot of stuff happens, apparently Tom flies but we don't get to see this real time. He's has one on one mentoring sessions with Cole but it's in dreams/illusions and ignoring the fur blanket for modesty, why does he does he have to be naked for one of them? Didn't seem to have a purpose... And then Tom sees Rose in one of these sessions, and again, why does she have to have naked? But the message is clear, Cole is definitely a wolf...but I had a brief thought that Straub (via Cole) was hinting that Tom is himself a wolf with grandmother big eyes comment. That all magician's are wolves because going back to my above question...magic is EVIL. And who is this wizard that Cole spoke of, that betrayed him? Could it be our sleepy useless wizard from earlier? A lot stuff happens, but like Cole's magical effects, it makes me too tired to go on about them. The only other thing of note was the jewel box of fairy tales that when opened, released all the stories that then got jumbled up. I assume this is a reference to Pandora's box. Oh, and before I forget...Del stole the crystal owl!!!! Or at least that's what Cole would have us believe. A seed of doubt has been set in both ours and Tom's mind about Del. So I'm wondering why. And Cole recognizes that Del, while being accomplished, will never be great. It's again reconfirming that Del lacks the natural gift that Tom has of sensing the world around him, which brings us back to how this would be a problem if you're suppose to be 'synthesizing' with this world. So finally, back to my obsession with names, or more accurately, Straub's obsession with names. Even you must admit, the author is fixated with names. If not, I'm going to have to start wondering if you fell asleep reading this book. It gets ridiculous when you have musicians named "Tommy Flanagan" and "Coleman Hawkins" on the train. We learn later that this is all part of magic cast by Cole as a prelude or is it a teaser to their time in Shadowland. Maybe Cole lacks imagination when it comes to naming his characters in the illusions he weaves? Or maybe Straub is making some sort of indirect reference to the the importance of names to the practitioners of magic. Which brings me to my last distraction after reading Shadownland (I'm at about the 50% mark). I got googling about the "true name" concept and found this rather silly article. I thought I'd give it a go, because you never know...I might find my magical name and figure out my true identity. Wouldn't that be neat? So I started calculating my birth number, easy. I was a "3". A number I quite like. But I got stuck on Step 2, and I quote: Now comes the most important part. Go into a meditative state. If you don't know how to do it, you can simply perform the Balancing Breathing exercise with your eyes closed, until your mind is relaxed, clear and focused. When you have achieved a nice meditative state, ask your wise inner self "What is my purpose for this life?" Really? Not only did I struggle to "meditate" but that question just cannot be answered. So if I was to take this article seriously, and not be suspicious of that fact you can get magical recipes online the way you do food, then it must mean I don't have a magical name!!!!! Maybe you'll do better than me on this: http://www.magicalrecipesonline.com/2015/09/how-to-find-your-magical-name-your-true.html
I believe you meant to say that as a refined connoisseur I would enjoy the subtle connotations in the video. There was a game show that gave a copy of a home version of the game as a consolation prize to losers. You are taking back your virtual warm fuzzy feelings of appreciation, really? So you are indicating that you are having a problem with emotional swings?
Whether the uncle is out to groom his successor, or get his hands on potential threats would make an interesting debate. What does seem clear is that while he has been grooming Del, he has decided that Del does not have sufficient potential, so he sets his sights on Tom. The problem that this presents is that Del sees himself as being the rightful successor. Not only does Del feel that he has the skill, but that he also enjoys a familial advantage. When you throw in the natural competition for Rose’s affections, there seems no way to avoid friction between the two boys – and Coleman uses that to his own advantage. You have forgotten a great deal, and I do not want to spoil what is coming. Consider that magic is a tool; it is neither good nor evil, then it all comes down to how it is used, or in this case, what is used to power it. With all the fairytale references, the Brothers Grimm almost had to make an appearance. I have a feeling that the revelation near the end may shed light on many of your questions. You struggled to meditate and got no answer . . . perhaps Ceremonial Magic is not really going to be your forte. LOL
I'll rephrase: Sci-Fi NERD who appreciates music - less long-winded. It's just as well I don't sit at home and watch game shows... What's next? Days of our lives references? Because I do not care if Ridge is alive or not. The virtual knives are flying and they're headed your way.
And also My problem is that so far there hasn't been positive references to magic. It's all been darkness... I'd still have to be convinced they were NECESSARY....I doubt it at this point. You didn't even tell me if you tried to answer that question...or meditate. And no attempts to chirp or sing to attract a mate? You're no fun.
So much for you having any skills in political maneuverings. Sorry, I have no point of reference; to me a ridge is a term relating to terrain. Oh my, just how long have you had these violent dreams? *begins taking notes*
Will magic getting someone to safety count? Well, if the Brothers Grimm were not there, the author may have used another train wreck or some other violence. I am too busy ducking the virtual knives you keep envisioning flying at my head. (Sounds like a cheesy Kung Fu movie)
Are we back to that? I'll get around to reading a self help book on the matter. I know there's a politician somewhere deep in me. Yeah right. How's Oprah? Is that even still on... I've got you figured out now too. Only, I don't need a Psyche book; just need to find an entertainment guide. I've built myself up to unimaginable grandiose levels of magic. Now I'm worried nothing will live up to my expectation, good or bad. I'll read some more tonight and see. Well, that's just sad. He couldn't get his point across without using dead fairy tale authors and you felt ANOTHER train wreck was the alternative? Truth be told and I feel like a traitor, but I'm beginning to see what the negative reviews may be on about...
Indeed, and precisely where that politician resides deep inside you is a matter better left unsaid. Oprah, pray tell, how should I know; you are the one with penchant for pedestrian romance fiction. lol As for your entertainment guide, I rest assured that our tastes in entertainment are incongruent. If you have raised your expectations to that level, you may be disappointed. There is some spectacular magic, but it is relative – you are not reading a high fantasy novel. I do not want another train wreck. Remember, you read this as a teen girl, and you were caught up in the first love angle. Now that you are a jaded adult, the book will be quite different. You are experiencing selective memory, your mind has kept the aspects that you loved and dismissed the ones that bored you.
Oh that is it! I was coming online and planned to cull the insults and play nice. You know, be on my best behavior in a bid to bring back the sweet and kind and ever indulgent @BooksandCoffee. But seriously, you incongruent BagofBooks, you insult my love of romance fiction?! You think romance fiction is about people walking about or worst, crossing the road?! You must live in a cave. And if Romance really was pedestrian, then with your massive blind spot to the genre, you'd probably run Romance over and reverse back over the poor thing, get out for a closer look and think: "Dead body...how interesting..." Maybe you were the frog that never got kissed or the Princess nobody wanted to awaken? So the appreciation of Romance is lost on you. And since this is a writing forum, the best advice I can give you is to write a romance novel that only the unromantic can understand. You can resolve the injustice of the frog or Princess scenario above. Some breath freshener or deodorant should the trick. See? It's not so hard to get your happy ending.
You do realize that words have more than one definition? 4. lacking in vitality, imagination, distinction, etc.; commonplace; prosaic or dull: a pedestrian commencement speech. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/pedestrian?s=t
Duh! Of course I did... But I never let an opportunity past if it means I can have a go at you. hehehe Pedestrian! Really! Now be quiet! I am trying to get back to serious business which is writing stuff about the actual book. ETA: I am JOKING... sheesh, I thought I was being obvious. Maybe I'm more subtle than I thought....
