Should I avoid having sexual abuse or rape involved?

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by SilentWaves55, Jun 1, 2018.

  1. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

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    I was going to go into details about the horrible things done to the MC and others at the hands of the villain. I would have the story first set when the MC's an adult and at some point recall back to the horrible events through flashbacks and interactions with other characters he meets.

    Am I better off just having a very controversial thing happen to him and maybe others by the villain, so it's less descriptive as he's an adult? Go into details about the bad things which are less controversial, where I'd have to start the story as a timeline from childhood to adult or stsrt from when he was an adult still and save the less controversial descriptive details as a full prequel story later on?

    Thank you for the help.
     
  2. irite

    irite Member

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    I'm not an expert on writing and would never tell anyone what to do.

    I can suggest options from a different point of view. I can use my position to see things from far away that you might miss close up. I can't make anyone listen to me or force my choices on them.
    I know what it's like to lost in thought, have you got anything else to start, write or finish while you wait for your mind to shout the right answer at you?
     
  3. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    This produces the classic problem of rape of women in fiction being about how the men feel about it and as a character development device for men, with the woman being raped as just an object.
     
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  4. irite

    irite Member

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    I think you just completed the circle of the thread
     
  5. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    end of the day everything that happens in fiction is a device to develop story or character... unless you are dealing with hi lit dealing with the theme of rape its not worth worrying about - if you mc is female its from an female perspective and vice versa
     
  6. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Arr?

    My point is that the horrific thing that Character X does to Character Y should be about Character Y and to some extent Character X, rather than being mostly about (as in, say, the Sansa rape scene) Character Z who witnesses it.
     
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  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    If character Z is the point of view character, its about them, but its a book not real life (and not supposed to be a representation of real life) ... eotd we make a disproportionate fuss about rape compared to torture and murder
     
  8. irite

    irite Member

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    In terms of the OP the MC is Z

    X has mistreated Z from childhood and Z seeks revenge, Y is just one of the reasons why Z seeks revenge.

    Z is a male MC and X is a male villain and the OP was trying to avoid male/male child abuse and looking for the best way to tackle it. So then is it such a problem to take away from the suffering of Y?
     
  9. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Rape IS torture. You really can't separate the two.

    And murder is usually a pretty big deal in fiction.
     
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  10. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not clear on the reason for avoiding male/male child abuse. If it's about male/male abuse, why shift to male/female abuse?

    If it's about "X is a bad person", why not have the badness happen to an important character? If this female target for the badness is an important character, rather than an important object, I might have a different feeling about it.
     
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  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Yeah it's a big deal in fiction but we don't make the same fuss about whether a murder victim is male or female, and rape is a form of abuse, but although it can be used for torture it is not generally considered synonymous

    My point was that if say val mcdermid writes a book in which eight men are tortured, it isn't because she's making a deep seated statement about the role of men in society, it's because she is telling a story.
     
  12. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    It could be in order to show that he's motivated by power rather than sex, as most abusers are. If x is a a totally bad person he's going to treat every person he comes into contact with badly, whether they are male, female or anything in between, and regardless of whether they are minor or major.

    There's no particular reason to avoid m/m abuse or m/f. Or for that matter f/m or f/f since the op is simply telling a story not writing social commentary
     
  13. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But if the torture is addressed primarily by analyzing how it affects those men's wives, girlfriends, daughters, and female bosses, rather than how it affects the men themselves, wouldn't that feel weird?
     
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  14. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Given that the men are dead, not really. However it is actually addressed in term of the hunt to capture and imprison the torturer because not every book is an examination of how x effects y

    Sometimes a story is just a story
     
  15. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

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    Right now this is my biggest focus in writing this out, which I'm hoping to figure it all out soon.

    Well the plot wouldn't be about MC wanting revenge on the villain for being forced to watch the villain rape or sexually abuse a female staff member or other said victim. That would just been another one of the bad and horrible traumas that the MC had gone through as a child soldier by witnessing the villain abusing a female member and abusing the MC himself, showing one of the villains bad impulse behaviors.

    The female victim that the MC would be forced to watch her abused by the sick villain would play an important role in the story, but maybe not showing up right away in the main story as this would first be from the MC's past trauma scenario so this character could show up later on. But having the male on male sexual abuse shouldn't be a big controversy if I don't go into too much detail about it and maybe just go more into detail of the physical beatings and mistreatment the villain possesses onto MC and onto others?

    This is true, the main villain is motivated by gaining as much power as he can and the sexual abuse would be contributing to his ways of abusing his power and dominance, not used for promoting any sex acts as a fun thing. It would be mentioned as a horrible and tortuous act of one of the sick villains many ways of using his corruption onto others as well as murder and kidnapping.

    True, which is why I might want to have the major abusive acts from the villain done manly to the MC, if any happens to others is only further explaining the villains ruthlessness and non compassionate towards others lives but himself.. I've known a person like this in real life who has done these similar horrible things to many, even the sexual acts, so something like this can exist for real life.
     
  16. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

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    I always wondered why so many stories, movies, shows get away with so much bad stuff but the thought that my MC got sexually abused by the villain when he was young is such a controversial subject, like in GOT, TWD, Dexter, Saw..etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  17. irite

    irite Member

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    (I thought the thread had gone full circle, seems like it was just the begining of a figure 8)
     
  18. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

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    Sorry, I guess I kind of went back there. I was just curious as to why my MC's background would be any worse than what we already see in the media but maybe it's truly for the best to avoid the rape sexual abuse done to the MC and its very unpopular for a male on male sexual abuse to happen, which would probably turn audiences off real fast since we are more used to a male on female sex abuse or rape.
     
  19. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

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    If I really want to showcase that the MC went through hell from the villain as a kid then maybe I should keep the physical and emotional abusive factor he did to the MC and onto others, without sexual abuse involved but showcase it in great detail so readers will be able to relate to the MC and have a strong motive for wanting to see the MC end the villains life later on.

    Since I wanted to start this plot with the MC as a young adult right before his enhanced body transformation (cause the title of the plot involves his new body prototype) it would make more sense that I use the horrible traumas as flashbacks and slowly more revealed, THEN save the rest from starting from beginning childhood, up until the point prior to him being an adult as a separate book, where I can have all the time going into details and descriptions of the ruthless acts of the villain and the MC's dark past, the bad things he's done to others, leaving out the rape and sexual abuse cause that would be too controversial. All the other violence should be ok considering we see a ton of that stuff in todays literature and shows, film media.

    I think this could possibly be the safest route for me to take, what do you guys think?
     
  20. irite

    irite Member

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    I meant what I said genuinely, I thought when posts were repeating previous information it was a circle, but then they actually got into a debate about the information and started covering new ground, begining a second circle/figure 8.
     
  21. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

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    I guess that happens alot with discussions like this, as it is a very broad subject. maybe the use of rape and sexual abuse is just a bad start into leading to trouble. I figured it would help in making the villain look more bad so it would be more satisfying for the MC to eventually finish him off and so the audience would feel the same way, cause no one would want to feel empathy for those who use sexual abuse and rape for power dominance.
     
  22. irite

    irite Member

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    One things for sure it has an impact on people otherwise there wouldn't be so many posts in this thread.

    No one has said don't use it in your story, it's all about how you use it, but it seems there is no one right way because it's an emotional subject that sends everyone in a different direction. There is no pre-set formula of "you must" just your choice of how you do.
     
  23. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

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    I agree with you. I'll write it out as I go along and see if I decide to put it in or not if I can manage. Although it might require me to do much more research if I want it spot on perfect.

    My question here is this, and I mean this in a genuine way. Why is it so many people get upset if there's any mention of rape or sexual assault in a story but don't seem to mind buckets of gore, extremely inhumane murders, kids being killed, provocative sex, decapitation, gore porn torture. It's just something I wondered that's all.
     
  24. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I suspect that it's because rape is mostly something that happens to women (child abuse aside) and most perpetrators are male, thus it evokes rights issues and the wider m/f debate , whereas most of the other subjects are more equal opportunity abuse
     
  25. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

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    That makes sense. But I wonder if it changes anything if it's a male that gets raped or sexually abused by another male instead? Or is it the same effect? I know it's about the equal presentation and cause women tend to get raped more than men do, though it does actually happen to men more than people realize. Why is it that shows like Game of Thrones has rape yet it's one of the most popular shows around?
     

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