In one of his recent interviews, he said he was "a buck eighty soaking wet." He lost 16 lbs for the Olympics and has maintained that weight because of his bad knees. So he's definitely under 190.
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that interview. That might well be accurate; Kobe definitely looked lighter this past season. There have definitely been moments in his career where I would classify him as "skinny", though.
a) I have no idea what a cougar bar is b) the fact you have suggested I go to one means I have no desire to find out what a cougar bar is Being British is one of the things we can thank the heavens (even if we don't believe in God) that we lost the war and the Americans got independence...
I used to live in a city on the Texas coast. The obesity rate was alarming. The town was fat, no other way to say it, but I think that fit in with the culture and demographic. Years later, I moved to Austin. It was a culture shock. There were people running, swimming, kayaking, and – in my opinion – more attractive. Not saying there aren't fat people in Austin, but the people who make the town famous are generally fit. I definitely think there was an air of superiority over "less attractive" places. Me, personally, I am decently meaty at 6'4" 235-240lbs. If I don't work out I will go Gandolfini in a hurry. I have gotten up to being a 285lbs softy twice and managed to drop 35-40lbs in a matter of two months. Never had a six pack and never wanted one, although I could trim the tummy a little. I feel better about myself when I push myself in the gym; I don't do it for any other reason than how I feel. In my family, obesity is frowned upon more than being a twig (still undesirable). I come from a long line of athletes and doctors, health is important. I know there are genetic differences that make it more difficult for some people to lose the fat, but I don't see how you could be prideful about morbid obesity.
On a somewhat related note, I've had today's Face Off marathon on in the background while I was working. I can't help but notice that the models who are used, regardless of the fact that they will be covered in in latex, foam, and other appliances, are all "off the shelf" beautiful. The women are stunning; the men are enviably handsome with chiseled physiques. Why? Why not use regular folks? Why not use fans?! Imagine that, aye? Even when you won't see a bit of their skin or actual features, still arbitrary beauty standards are in play.
I know how that feels. Luckily the laws of physics come into play sooner or later: as long as you spend more calories than you consume, you will lose weight if you stick with it long enough, and if you eat enough protein / avoid fast carbs yadda yadda, you should even be able to shed more lard and less muscle than you otherwise would. General quackery warning: I just meant that ectomorphs (the type I've always envied) seem to never gain much weight and they have trouble building muscle in comparison to mesomorphs (what I am), who gain weight easily, be it in the form of fat or muscle.
I'm pudgy. Not all that attractive. Both are true in large part because I don't put any particular effort into my appearance, though at my age I've passed the opportunity to look my lifetime best. About eighteen months ago, I had the "Do you _wanna_ be diabetic when you're fifty?" conversation with my doctor, changed my diet, and, hey, look at that! I'm wearing jeans a few sizes smaller, if still a few sizes bigger than ideal. So I have confirmation that my pudge is at least in part my choice. I was going to post in that other thread, but I don't think I did, because it seemed too far topic for that thread. (If I did, er, much of this will be redundant.) I was going to say that I don't feel jealous of women that are underclothed and blatantly sexy, but instead I'm jealous of women that have societally-approved tall thin figures and beautiful fashion instincts, even when those women are so thoroughly and innocently covered that they could be the host of children's television shows. This is my problem. Totally and entirely my problem. The last two women that I felt jealous of - one in a glorious pared-down steampunk denim outfit, the other in much more conventional but perfectly fitted jeans - looked beautiful and confident and strong. The moral and logical and most of the emotional part of my brain completely approves of that. The jealous part of my brain that growls resentfully is firmly locked up before it can make words come out of my mouth. However, the _reason_ why I'm pudgy and unattractive is, similarly, absolutely none of anybody's business. You have every right to reject someone's self-pitying lamenting, but I feel that it's inappropriate to reject it in such detail. Maybe they're overweight because they're lazy. Maybe they're overweight because of a health problem. Maybe they're overweight because they feel that overweight is beautiful. Nobody's business. If they force their excuses and guilt trips on you, I realize that it's hard not to defend yourself in detail, but I think that doing so is sinking to their level. For example, "fatso"? Not OK. Just not. Yes, it's just as thoroughly not OK for someone to call you the corresponding insults-for-thin-people. But the fact that some rude un-thin people call you names does not excuse you for insulting all un-thin people. They're hurting themselves, if indeed they are hurting themselves rather than experiencing health problems out of their control. How is _guilt_ appropriate? We could talk about health care costs, but if I were going to run around handing out guilt trips for unhealthy decisions that cost money, I'd start with smokers and I'd run out of time before I ever got to overweight people. Then I'd have to compare the risks of being overweight with the risks for various sports, riding motorcycles, and a big bag of other activities that people have every right to engage in, risk or no risk. No. Absolutely not. Look gorgeous. Look powerful. Look strong. Go for it. Revel in it. Be proud of it. Just drop "fatso" from your vocabulary, forever. That's my advice.
Sorry about that, should've been more precise and explained the "fatso"-remark, I just forgot not everybody is a mind-reader: when I think about my overweight self, I associate several negative attributes to that whole and call that whole "fatso," i.e. a negative prepresentation of myself. Kinda like calling myself "pencil neck" or "sack of bones" when I'm slim even though those two are likewise less than polite expressions of skinny people. Regardless, I don't really go around calling other people fatsos or pencil necks or planks or anything else of the kind, just myself (and will try to refrain from that too as long as I'm on a public forum). I also didn't mean to imply that I think all overweight people are so simply because they're lazy, but I would hazard a guess that if we look at percentages of reasons behind obesity, laziness (which includes lack of exercise, reluctance to change one's lifestyle / diet / eating habits etc) is probably one of the most common reasons (in the beginning anyway: prolonged lack of exercise and overeating may of course cause health problems that, in turn, may aid additional weight gain). At least laziness seems quite a bit more popular (since it's a popular perk among people of all sizes) than, say, hypothyroidism (although the latter, too, can be overcome in some cases as long as the patient is motivated enough, hence the example of the mother who succeeded in regaining her health despite the ailment). Does anyone know of any research regarding the reasons behind obesity? Which reasons are the most common? How usual is it to suffer of e.g. hypothyroidism? Are there many other illnesses that cause weight gain?
in shape guy myself, i don't think skinny and in shape people have anything to be ashamed of or cover up. if some fatty is giving you grief over it i suggest giving them a load of it back. your good looking and their not, that is their problem not yours. its like hating someone for working hard and making lots of money. it just revels what a loser they are. i can understand a little extra weight but some of these obese people, how do you even get like that? its not like its difficult, i work a ton of hours in finance and eat ok when i remember too, and only hit the gym 3 times a week for a little while. i am 170 and if i don't have ice cream that week ( i usually have a cartoon a week) i louse weight.
I want to get back to this leering business, T. trian. Before I get killed, people, please understand, I am musing, you know, one of those things I assume writers do. If someone dresses in a sexual manner, why is it wrong for others to look at them in a sexual manner (the definition of leering)? Let's say you have a dog. It's the best dog in the world. It's obedient, loyal, and absolutely adores you and all your rules. You've just cooked an amazing steak dinner, which you've begun to eat for yourself, right in front of your dog. Now, this dog would never dream of eating something that is not directly offered to him. He's not going to bark, or smash his head into your lap. He's not going to take the steak while you're the bathroom. He's just sitting there in the corner, and yes, his eyes are following your fork every trip it takes from your plate to your mouth. Can you blame him for fantasizing? Somewhere beneath all the training, all the loyalty, all the love and fear of angering its master, is something very primitive and very basic. Men are not dogs (although sometimes I feel half this forum disagrees). We understand, rationalize, empathize, follow rules. But just like the dog, there is something within that is very primitive and very basic. Call it instinct. Sexual drive. Whatever it is, it's part of being human. Now, before I get angry cries about what you think I'm alluding to, let me finish (I shouldn't even have to say this but seeing as how things turned sour on other threads, can you blame me?) . I abhor the idea of anyone, particularly a man, violating another , particularly someone physically weaker than him. So much so, I've refused to watch movies like Clockwork Orange, because the idea disgusts me so much. Leering, for lack of a better word, is in my mind natural and unrelated to anything worse. You could do it alone with a willing female who dresses provocatively for you and no one would accuse you. I don't like the idea of men leering in public. It's brutish. But if someone dresses in a manner that provokes leering, it would be male repression to expect him not to do it. So no, I don't think someone who leers at someone who is dressing in a way that provokes it is doing anything wrong. He's not a loser. He's breaking no rules, simply looking at what's been shown to him. Show me something enticing and then yelling at me if I look (in the way it was meant to be looked at, which in this case, "leer" can be used)? That's a form of suppression.
^^^^^^^^^^ whats wrong with a leer? i remember when i worked at a gay club i liked it despite being strait. i had my shirt half unbuttened and i knew i was hot stuff. they call it the museum rule, you can look but cant touch. as far as dogs go i usually find that's the "fairer gender" i find.
When I first read T.Trian's initial post in this thread, complete with the suggestion that beautiful people should cover up their beauty so as not to offend ugly people, I immediately thought, "Should smart people act dumb so as not to offend stupid people?" Then I thought of Kurt Vonnegut's little story "Harrison Bergeron." If you haven't read it, it's available free online (I think) and you should definitely look it up. I'm five foot ten and have always been heavy. About eleven years ago or so, I worked out intensely for nearly a year and got myself down to a very muscular 187 pounds. I was so proud of myself that I quit working out and fattened up again - I was 236 pounds last time I weighed myself. A friend said, "Hey, you were doing so well with the workouts, and you really looked good!" I said, "Thanks!" He said, "Uh, what happened?" I blushed, I think. Anyway, I'm fifty-two now (as of last Wednesday) and it's pretty clear that even if I work out like I used to, my Adonis days are far behind me. Actually, I have a kind of squarish face and a short gray beard - I bet, in about ten years or so when the rest of my hair goes gray, I could enter an Ernest Hemingway lookalike contest and place quite well. Maybe I'll just make that my ambition, now that I think about it. I hope my Hemingway-like looks don't offend those of you not genetically gifted enough to look like Hemingway.
[MENTION=35652]123456789[/MENTION] – It's not where you work up your appetite, but that you eat at home. Seriously. I went to a hot yoga with my soon to be ex. There was this awesome looking toned Asian girl in front of me in grey cotton shorts, and if she had panties on, they were made of dental floss. I admit, she had me drooling. But, I would never partake in adultery. In fact, I have never even fantasized about different women during coital times. Admiring and lusting don't have to be synonyms.
As for reasons behind obesity... while possibly most of it comes down to a generally unhealthy McLifestyle, there are also overweight people who may suffer of conditions that cause fat to "pile up". And there are over-weight people who are healthy, happy and active -- their BMI (which is bs) just labels them overweight. Since we can't tell just by looking everyone's story, the default still seems to be to think that they brought it on themselves or they're slowly killing themselves, so we the privileged, the holy citizens of Thindom, loudly or silently judge them. And that's terrible, because like someone already said in this thread, their diet is none of anyone else's business. And my lunch carrots are none of anyone's business because goddammit I like mah damn carrots! I think it's good there's e.g. the Fat Acceptance Movement in the sense that it promotes the idea that everyone's beautiful as they are. Unfortunately it also promotes the idea that slim people are the most privileged beings in the universe, and it promotes the idea that overeating is ok (read: enjoying life. Sorry, but, to me at least, there's a big difference between how Mireille Guiliano tells us how to enjoy life vs. Gabriel Iglesias). The woman with curves, big boobs, and an ample butt should not feel guilty of flaunting that body in front of me (it's more like, please do, 'cause I don't mind admiring, which btw, I wouldn't call leering because I'm straight), and I shouldn't feel guilty around heavier individuals just because I happen to look smashing in micro-shorts. Beauty comes in so many shapes and sizes, so yeah, it would be great if we were able to enjoy that beauty instead of revel in jealousy and judgment. Oh yes, genes matter. But I meant that one can definitely draw inspiration from others' success. I know I do in my infinite struggle to build muscle which is a) already hard enough 'cause I'm a woman b) twice as hard because of my genetic make-up (I presume). So I think it's okay to say "I did it, so you can do it too." It's first and foremost encouragement instead of ignorance. To me. And yeah, those morphs are hokey-pokey-science. Oh yes, that's how it goes. We can't have anything "plain" in advertisement, can we? Because ads sell dreams so the models must be dreamy too! Suppose we expect to be delivered dreams and eyecandy when watching adds. On the flipside, if you are someone, say an athlete, you get to advertise stuff even though you have average looks (yeah, they do airbrush the hell out of you, but it's not like they can hide everything). Of course some companies go against the grain, like Dove, but most are still afraid of the Every Man. ETA: Prompted by this I wanted to share the success story of my mom; she'll turn 60 next year and lost over 20lbs last winter because she simply exercised so much (nothing extreme, just cross-country skiing and long walks with the dog). She's so tiny right now, almost the same size as when she was 25 (and I think she's still shrinking), and she's so happy about this, that just because she's middle-aged, she can still feel as light as she did in her twenties. This is not about the weight though, my point was that she's near sixty and can still feel like she looks amazing and can still make the changes she wants to her body.
Is that true, though? Because "there's someone for everyone", does that mean everybody is beautiful? I think that blurs the lines between inner and outer beauty. I believe this thread was started with an idea based on physical attractiveness. If 90% (hypothetical number) of women find fat guys attractive, would that not mean fat guys are attractive? Yes, I know there is an exception to every stereotype. Does your positive self perception of your physical characteristics deem you attractive, or is beauty in the eye of the observer?
What I've read of FAM (I did research for an obese character) and many blogs that exist in the so-called Fatosphere, many contributors are women, and to women outer beauty seems to be particularly important. I think many people have the need to be able to consider their own bodies beautiful as well, regardless how the outside world mirrors it or feeds their self-perception, especially because it sometimes treats our bodies so negatively. But with FAM, it also seems not to be about "beauty" being a negative thing (as in, "you don't have to feel beautiful to be a valuable human being, blah blah"), but rather it's related to the ability to love our bodies just the way they are. This is a good question. People with a lot of confidence/high self-esteem seem to be considered attractive (sexually as well) by many, while a person, however beautiful by the beauty standards fed to us by media, can be less popular if her/his self-esteem is low.
Hey dude, I'm with you 200%. Not everyone here is, hence my formulated argument. Glad at least some people see things my way...for once.
I can relate [MENTION=53329]T.Trian[/MENTION]. I used to be very fit and slim when I was younger, 1000cal a day diet, tennis, handball, aerobics, walking, the whole shebang. I had just a couple of female friends and faced a lot of discrimination from women who were all like 'lock up your husbands' even though I wasn't at all flirtatious. When I had my health setback in early 30s and gained weight due to oral steroids and not being able to do anything for several years, I experienced the sly criticism from my family and generally,started to feel quite upset about the whole insistence that people have to be a certain shape, and if they aren't, they are automatically considered lazy, pathetic, weak willed etc. What I learned from all that is that the society enforces mediocrity. If you are 'average' you are left alone to go about your business. If you are outside of the average in any way, people feel obliged to keep letting you know about it. It's an interesting phenomenon to be sure. What's important is what's in your head and people around you who love you just the way you are
I really hate air-brushed photos as well. I recently watched a TED talk by model Cameron Russell, and she talked about this exact issue. It's worth watching the video if you get the chance.
And it's funny (in a totally unfunny way) that e.g. pro-anas know full well the pictures they admire are airbrushed and photoshopped, they even do it themselves, but still aspire to look as skeletonish as the photoshopped model in the picture. Of course not all of them end up looking like that.
Sometimes Hollywood folks bounce around from fat to slim, so yes, there are celebs who have greatly slimmed down. Seth Rogan is among them and I am actually quite amazed by how much he has slimmed down. But even when he was heavier, he wasn't as big as some of the other folks. I'm probably showing my age somewhat here, but a couple of actors who immediately spring to mind are Chris Farley and John Candy. Yes, they're both dead now, but Chris Farley, as the SNL "fat guy" held a similar position to Belushi, who had previously been the SNL "fat guy." The two were often compared, yet Farley was far more obese. In the Blues Brothers movie, and the subsequent remakes, Dan Ackroyd was fatter in the remakes with John Goodman (another actor who has at times been fatter than "fat guys" from earlier eras) than Belushi was in the original. Re: sports. Yes, maybe easier not to bring them up, given the complexity and multitude of issues (including steroids). But there have been stories about linebackers in the NFL who are very unhealthy and despite being athletes, are just too fat. There are a lot more of the heaviest guys now than there were 30 years ago. Sure, there are some hugh guys who can perform some very impressive feats. But that doesn't mean that it's desirable or that there aren't athletes who are unhealthily large.
You're referring to two guys that died 16 and 19 years ago, respectively. That's not even remotely modern-day. And both guys were also way bigger than Seth Rogen or Jonah Hill ever were. As if that weren't enough, Rogen and Hill each lost a ton of weight. Farley and Goodman never did. So even within Hollywood's tiny "fat male actors" department, according to your logic, the issue has massively improved. Not linebackers. Linebackers are healthy, extremely muscular and well-defined, and typically range from 240-260 pounds. Here are some examples of famous modern linebackers. Patrick Willis, 6' 1", 240 pounds Jason Taylor, 6' 6", 244 pounds Awful fatties, the lot of them. What you were thinking of are nose tackles and offensive linemen. Yes, some of them are overweight. But the reason they're bigger is that they're more effective that way. You know what other NFL positions are massively larger today than they used to be? All of them. Most, however, have equal or lower body fat percentages than players in the 80s (your example with Perry) did. Again, this is why your sports example is poor It's an incredibly specialized discipline where you're talking about the top .01% of genetic marvels. It has never been representative of larger society. And no one picks a nose tackle because he is a fatty. They pick him because he is the best, and yes, sometimes that coincides with being fat. Ted Washington was 6' 5", 375 pounds, and an unstoppable force of nature. This would be the case regardless of larger society. Last I checked, guys who look like Willis and Jason Taylor don't regularly walk the streets, either.
