I'm having a think on this... and I think going in thinking of writing a 'strong female character' might be all wrong. I don't think about that in terms of my women. I only care that they make sense. But it is important to me that they stand as their own as characters and that they are not there to be a prop to the men. A woman can totally be a damsel in distress and be saved by a man. So what? Is she in a bind? Does she need help? Is she going to let pride get in her way of good decision making? Her needing to be saved in a story does not define her completely. I think for me, strength in character is about conviction in belief, be it real life or fiction. Someone can be gentle, sweet and for all intents and purposes, rather hopeless in the eyes of many, but can still be strong because she knows what she wants, and is not ashamed to admit that she needs help or accepts who she is. In my mind, weakly drawn female characters are only those whose only purpose is the make others look strong. And to me a weak female personality would be someone who only look to others for approval or lack the life skills to grow and learn. But it's the same for men. I'm writing an innocent female at the moment (I usually do bossy or sassy), and for me with her, it's about her journey in taking risks and standing up for herself or speaking up a bit more. It may not be a lot but she is suppose to, by the end of the story, be changed. She is suppose to use whatever resources available to her rather slight and unassuming self to get the job done. That would be getting her life on a different track and to matter to someone. It's a romance after all and she is lacking in that compartment. Oh, she wants a cat too. So while I do not want her to go in thinking she wants to be reliant on the male lead, there is nothing wrong that she wants to find another she trusts enough to rely on them for her happiness. After all, to me finding love is finding team mate who will always be there to back you up.
Margaret Thatcher is generally portrayed as a strong woman. (@Francis de Aguilar - #34 on this thread) But it took a strong man (John Major) to begin the peace process in Northern Ireland. ETA: And that was exactly why Margaret Thatcher wouldn't allow peace in Northern Ireland.
Strong doesn't mean infallible or even particularly intelligent. It's just determination and toughness under emotional stress.
I think strong characters, of any gender, must have encountered something in their past that they had to overcome by strength of will, usually without being sure they could actually do it. They are not all-powerful or fearless, but do what they have to do in spite of being scared to death and full of doubt.
Does anyone know the origins of all this "strong female character" interest? I'm curious about whether they meant action-movie strong or just a female character with her own interests and strong characterization... ETA: And @LinnyV - I don't consciously work to create "strong female characters" either. I try to write interesting, realistic characters with their own goals and strengths and weaknesses. Some of these characters are female.
@BayView I know, I know, Pick me, Pick me (waves hand in the air like a frantic idiot) But here this might have an answer to this question of origin of the strong female character: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_female_character It is short and to the point.
Hmm... Google ngrams isn't great for things like this b/c it only covers mentions in books, not in other forms of media, but based on https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=strong+female+character&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cstrong%20female%20character%3B%2Cc0 it looks like there was a big jump in use of the term starting in the 1970s, peaking around 2000 - maybe this is when the backlash became prominent? I certainly can't think of many female characters who fit the action-hero-y definition coming out of the first half of the 20th century, as Wikipedia suggests...
Yes well...I was just trying to be helpful since you asked when the origin of such a character came to be. Though I trust your conclusion that as an 'actiony' type of the character in topic, that I would have to agree that it was in the 1970's.
The fact is, I was using Lara as an example of a supposed 'strong female character' which the feminists have been pleading for in video gaming since she first arrived on the scene. They banged on about the size of her tits at first and the fact that she became a sex object for years. Now they've given Lara a modicum of personality, they can't handle that either. So what's it to be then? A bimbo with big assets or a strong lead character? Or a bit of both because they're both killers anyway. Either way, I couldn't give a monkey's if Lara is a strong character. I really don't care much about her as long as she does what she's supposed to do and doesn't die too much. That can be annoying.
My three female leads have massive busts too and the reaction has been as follows: One young lady said she was inspired, thought the characters were hot, kept pointing to the female MC and showed her off to her male friend. And wished she could draw like that. One bisexual female youtube feminist asked for nude pics of the same female MC. Another woman said she would like a tattoo of the same female MC. Another was impressed and brought most the class to look. Online, a lesbian's favourite characters were the 3 females. Despite complaining that their boobs were too big. She called me an a hole when they apparently died after the first installment. A female proof reader told me her favourite character was the same female MC On the other hand, one of my art teachers thought the busty look was cliche and thought I could do better than that. My sister, who is hyper religious orthodox Christian, thought the characters should wear indian saris and that the story is violent porn that contributes to rape and murder. She did not read the story. So when feminists complain about this look offends and keeps women out of comics, I pretty much ignore it, because my lived experience tells me otherwise. And when I look at the rare feminist redesign, from an artist perspective, it looks stocky and blocky.
Is it because you add the "the" to "the feminists"? Is that what makes it possible for you to think of an entire group of people as a monolith? Because I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion before, haven't we? Maybe it was somebody else, but I remember @ChickenFreak having to remind someone that there is a wide range of feminist thought, just like most other social movements. So some people who identify as feminists were concerned that Lara Croft was a sex object. Some people who identify as feminists were concerned that Lara Croft... has a modicum of personality? In your earlier post I think you expressed that "modicum of personality" in terms of being a hyper-aggressive mass murderer, so I'm not really sure your terms are being consistent here, but... A) It's possible that you're referring to two different groups of people who identify as feminists; and B) Even if we're talking about the same group, I can absolutely see someone who would object to a hyper-sexualized female character and a mass-murdering female character. I mean, obviously neither version is a realistic, positive portrayal of a woman, right? I haven't really followed this topic so I'm just reacting to the arguments as you've framed them. But I assume you're framing them in the way that's most favourable to your perspective, and I'm still not really getting it. Like, if you were parked on the freeway and a cop gave you a ticket for obstructing traffic, and you then gunned it and a cop gave you a ticket for going 150 km/h in an 80 km/hr zone... and you then threw up your hands and your response was "What's it to be, then?"... you wouldn't really expect anyone to take you seriously, would you? If you punched someone in the face and they objected, and you then punched them in the stomach and they objected to that as well... they'd be right. You'd be wrong. Right?
Oh dear. I do seem to have rattled your cage don't I? Why don't you lie down,take a stress pill and relax? I'm not the slightest bit interested in an argument with you over feminists, groups or whichever defensive stance you choose to take, so just don't bother please. Lara Croft (a game you don't play, Bay View) is an example of a supposed strong lead character which I used as an example and has been distorted by all manner of critics. Sure, they try to give the impression that she's a strong character, but in the end, who cares. It's a game, she kills a lot of people. The end.
We don't know if the the Anita Sarkeesian type feminist are a loud majority, minority or whatever. It's not important as far as audience demographics go. The non feminist majority still outnumbers the feminist minority even if they were a monolith, so satisfying feminist criticism at the expense of other factors is not the smartest thing to do. Paul Feig tried it with Ghostbusters and look what happened there.
I don't think feminists are in the minority these days. That aside, I don't get the hate for that film. It was fun.
I pause and study this. Are you under the illusion that it's a debate tactic? It's revealing aspects of your character that I really think you'd want to keep the door closed on. I'm assuming that you're approximately fourteen, and that when you reach something closer to adulthood, you'll facepalm when you become aware of what you were like. But I fear that you may be chronologically an adult, and therefore quite possibly past saving.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/feminism-poll_n_3094917.html I can't imagine bringing up objectification arguments and rape culture, and so on without identifiying as feminist. Can you?
You posted that link in support of the fact that feminists are the majority, right? Because that's what that link adds up to. The fact that a person is afraid of the word doesn't change the fact that a person embraces the ideas.
They embrace the idea of equality. But the word feminist carries with it several other ideas in addition: Patriarchy theory, male privilege, rape culture, toxic masculinity and objectfication. if you're suggesting that most beliveve in those ideas but just don't accept the word feminist, the article suggests no such thing. Someone who says they're not feminist will be unlikely to use those points. Therefore it doesn't make sense to place much importance on criticism based in these concepts unless one is writing in the feminist genre. That's not to say one disregards it completely, I've dialed it back a little more than once to the story's benefit, but it's kept in the proper perspective.
I'm three years old actually, but thanks for promoting me and I'm also pleased to see that sense of humour is a mandatory requirement for this place. Anyway, as I suspected, 'strong female character' has branched out into feminism which I really couldn't give a toss about, except Anita of course.
