Hi all, I wanted to come on here and reach out to you all for some advice if that's okay? I'm feeling really frustrated with myself lately because I can never seem to stick to a project long enough. Deep down I know I want to write a YA fantasy novel but get bogged down by all the preparation work I have to do before I even think about writing a word. I'm someone who needs an outline before I jump into writing, however I'm never able to reach the first draft stage of a novel because I give up on my idea way before then. I've noticed as well that when I work on a project for awhile and then take a break because life gets in the way, I find that I have no motivation to go back and continue with that project. Any suggestions would be deeply appreciated, at this stage I don't know where to turn and starting to feel like I'll never make it. Kind Regards, David
Hard truth but sometimes I see the planning as 'the great filter' (I'm a planner)... if enthusiasm wanes as you expound then maybe the idea's not the spellbinder it was imagined to be? Bud nipped. Better to discover this early—as abandonment at chapter 18 (after rewriting all those chapters (first in first then second in third (pov))) is a real arse! Experience. Conversely if planning has you itch to write prematurely, and that itch stays with every idea you visit for every nth of your opus, then likely on to a winner. Next phase Standard: Avoid books on how not to procrastinate (it's procrastination) Progress Journal here/elsewhere Time set aside + background music (lyric free) + coffee + catholic discipline + no internet Extreme: Tell everyone, who'll hear it, your plan and lay some responsibility on yourself Pay yourself a lemon sherbert for each chapter you plan (and two for each you write) Loan me a thousand dollars. I'll return it (+ a dollar) on submission of completed manuscript Apologies for levity, I do understand that nothing good comes easy.
Wise words. However I would say that sometimes, even if you're on to a winner, that itch to write can still be elusive at times. We're only human. Discipline, hard-work and blood. That's writing for you.
The fact is, there will be times you dont want to write on any project. A bike chase with an amazing set piece idea, for instance, is always more fun to write than a conversation that might be essential to the plot. It's about training and incentivizing yourself, or straight out forcing yourself. I go for Pavlovian training myself. If i have a scene I dont particularly find amazing - I force myself, then treat myself to something after. Getting it down on the page can be a chore, and the important thing is - even if you think it SHOULD be interesting, you can then examine what you've got after you've written it, and try to tweak it to be interesting. You cant tweak or change a blank page. What I do is write out what the scene does before you write it, bullet points. I write and follow those bullet points and use them to paint by numbers, to a degree, so your mind can spend more time concentrating on the dialogue and setting/atmosphere of the scene. Do whatever you need to that makes you feel at ease writing. If you've written something already, think about what you were doing or how you wrote it that made it easy. Apply the methodology to the stuff you dont want to write, and again... at the end of the day, if it comes down to it - force yourself. If you dont force yourself it will never get written, and you'll never get into the habit of writing enough to get the book written. I dont want to write today, im not particularly enamoured with the scene im writing, but i know once its down, I can change and alter it until im happy. Then you do that for the next scene, and the next chapter. And treat yourself after a chapter. And you keep on going until you get yourself into a rhythm. Force force force if you have to. Eventually you get to the end and realize you've written the last chapter. You cant wait for inspiration or enthusiasm to hit every time you try to write, nor to rely on that to keep a project alive in your head, otherwise you'll be an old man before you get one book written.
Well, staying motivated is probably the most difficult part of writing a novel. It's not like a short story you can write on one or two days or weeks of work. Usually writing a novel involves several weeks, months or years of work (to give you an extreme example, a french author Alain Damasio spend ten years of daily work before publishing his first novel... and it's an amazingly good one, but that's not the point). So it's normal to not be tip top motivated or focus with the same intensity on your project. My advice (it's what I do for years now) would be to take a little time every day to work on your novel : it can be short 10 minuts to half an hour, but do it every day and, if possible, at the same moment of the day everyday to build a habit. It will helps you to stay on your story and on your universe. Usually I write a little something everyday just after waking up : as I spend my days writing my Ph. D. thesis, the morning is the only moment I have the mind not clouded with my work... So I take this time for my stories. I stay in bed and just take my fountain pen or my pencil and my notebook to write for a short time (yes I'm very old school, but I find it easier to write on paper than on computer... computers screens are note that comfortable for me, so early the morning I prefere paper without backlight). You can use these minuts to takes notes about a character, a place, write a scene, a dialogue, plan your story, write (and develop) an idea you had... And when you feel it, you can take more time on the day to work on your story, but taking this little amount of time everyday will help you to not let it down. * My second advice would be to not have only one file for your story on your computer : I have a folder for each of my writing projects (short story, novels, drama plays) It's important to have several files because it allows you to not write linearly : you can have a file with a scene you had on mind dans had to write even if you didn't reach that point in your writing sessions, and this another file with a character sheet, and one other with the begining etc. I always have a main file where I write linearly my story and a constellation of others fragments of story I can include in my main file when I reach this point in the story. It helps me a lot, because sometimes I want to jump to something I WANT to write but which only happens ways later on the story. It helps me not being frustrated ! Good luck (and work) for your novel !
I feel that if you hit the kind of block that you describe—you can't work without an outline, but you never finish anything—you might want to try a different approach. This may be the way you've worked thus far, but it's not producing results. If something you keep doing doesn't work, it makes sense to try something else. I don't mean give up writing! I mean try a new approach to it. Just a suggestion : next time you get a great story idea, and start to write the outline for it—don't. Start to write the story instead. There is no risk. None. Nothing you write is set in stone till you publish it. So don't be afraid to take chances, to wing it a bit. I suspect that's what's been missing from your attempts thus far. You do NOT have to start at the beginning of your story. Start with what gave you the idea. What brought these characters and these events to your mind? Write THAT scene. Even if you don't know what came before or what will come later ...write that scene! Play it for the reader. What kind of emotions do you want the reader to feel when they read that scene? What do you want them to be intrigued about? What will make them want to carry on reading? Keep those things in mind as you write that scene. Don't just sketch the scene, thinking you'll fill in the details later. Fill them in now. Make it as rich as possible. (You can always cut things out later on.) But right now, make that chapter or scene jump off the page. It should be easy to do, because you'll be enthusiastic yourself. Don't allow your enthusiasm to be killed off by the need for a dry outline or the need to recite what happens, what happens next. Then, when you've finished that scene, step back and think ...okay, what came before this scene that brought my characters to this point? What might happen next? Then write THOSE scenes. You'll only be pantsing this for a short while ...maybe another couple of scenes. By then, you'll have a story that's forming in your head, with characters who have come to life for you. THEN you write your outline ...but it doesn't have to be detailed. Just a sense of direction. And keep going. You don't have to write the scenes in chronological order. Study how to do transitions, so you don't actually have to write the dull bits, but can skip over them with a good transition. Every scene should do more than just tell the reader what happened, and what happened next. You want the reader to feel excited, intrigued, or upset, or worried, or even angry as they read your story. So choose your words, with those effects in mind. Don't be afraid to go slowly, add lots of detail, give the reader a rich experience, which includes rest periods where they can take in what they've read. Get them immersed in your story's world, which you can build as you go (if it's fantasy), or research as you go, if you're writing about the real world. This should be an emotional experience for your readers, so don't lose touch with how you want them to feel.
Give yourself a hard deadline. I allow myself 2 weeks to plan, come up with characters, make an outline, etc. Then, I am writing. Of course, I know a lot of detail about a book before I ever get to the point of writing it, I currently know the next 24 books I'm going to be writing, but getting all of the detail down and the exact sequence of events, it takes me less than 2 weeks to get it done. Then, I have minimum word goals every day and that forces me to get it written. It gets me through at least 6 complete books a year.
That's an interesting approach. Just out of curiosity, the dollar you're returning on submission of the completed manuscript, is that interest per month, per year, or per decade?
Have you considered working in collaboration with someone? I'm a deaf guy, my biggest struggle is dialogue and as a result I had several false starts over the years but I had about three, four people tell me they'd be willing to work with me. Unfortunately, the first couple went nowhere, but my current project, I have a couple of people who have really helped out. I feel like I *HAVE* to make it work to make up for the time and effort they have given me. I don't know if my effort will ever be published but it is getting written, so that approach is working for me.
Writing must be also an occupation, not just a passion, if you wanna make it as a writer. Do you think your publisher will be sympathetic if they've signed a contract with you for a book and you tell them "Oh hey ho, I just have no motivation"? We get up for work every day and we go and do our jobs - we might love our job, but it is still a job and there will still be days when you just don't feel like it. So, honestly, it's sheer discipline. Write even when you don't feel like it. Sure, what comes out when you're not in the mood is usually trash, but at least you have a direction, you can edit, you can redraft. You can't work with a blank page. And at some point you'll get to the stage of churning out quality work despite not being in the mood. I'm at that stage - but it didn't come from me sitting around saying "Oh I have no motivation." It came from a simple decision 10 years ago - when I decided I'll write a novel and that means I'll write every day. Did I write every day? Nah. Did I write damn near every day? Yes. I absolutely did. It's a choice. You choose to write, or you choose not to write. Either way is fine, but if you wanna write, then write, and if you want a book, then the only way forward is to write. Unless you wanna hire a ghost writer, which is an option - some people just wanna tell a story but do not enjoy the act of writing. That's cool too. Figure out which sort you are. Also, fantasy is a pretty tough genre to start in, I think, if you're not really into world-building. If you say the planning stage gets you bogged down, then all the required world-building might not be for you. In which case, I'd try a different genre just to start. Once you've developed the skill to write, and to plot/structure, as well as developed the discipline required to actually write - once you have all of that - then give fantasy a go. There's no point throwing yourself a hard bend for the sake of it. I've switched to urban fantasy crime right now precisely because I really don't wanna do world-building - not nearly to the same amount as high fantasy requires. And frankly, I'm beginning to move away from fantasy altogether - my next one will probably be straight crime or straight drama/romance. Or maybe drama with a touch of magical realism but where the magic really isn't important. Figure out what sorta writer you are. Figure out your strengths. Then cater to them.
Ha, ‘tis but a crumb, a one time token, but it’s the very bonafide dollar, erm, used as a prop in trading places!
Haven't read in detail but, I think @jannert has some good solid advice for you to think about. Everyone's writing process is different. There is an element of just knuckling down and sticking to it, but honestly for me it doesn't matter if I do or don't write every day-- I know I will keep coming back to my story. I'm trying to be better about getting things done in a more efficient manner but that's my own struggle right now. I will try things that work, things that don't, and eventually I'll manage to bring a little more sense to the chaos that is writing. Anyway back to the idea of processes-- sounds like you could stand to cut down on what prep work you need to do. Do only as much as what helps you actually write, if you hit a point where outlining is harder than writing-- switch. Also I'd recommend thinking about what makes you excited for this story and just run with it! It took me... more work and effort than it should have for me to learn that I need to focus on telling a story that I love, not one that I think is objectively 'good'. I haven't tried the specific process Jannert's suggested but honestly that is really cool and I might do that next time I start a WIP! Do you have a specific YA fantasy you want to write, or is it just a YA fantasy? Another thing I do to help keep me focused on a limited number of projects is I have a doc on my computer dedicated to my story ideas. If I have an idea and I think it's Cool and Good, then I'll hop on over to that doc and jot down the basics. It makes me feel like I'm not abandoning it, I'm just shelving it for now. It's still there for me, somewhere other than in my head, for whenever I'm ready to pull it down and write it out.
I spend a lot of time telling amateur writers that as well. It's nobody's job to motivate you, you have to be determined to succeed on your own. If you can't get up every single morning and put words on the page, then you don't want it enough. If you ever did get a contract, they are going to expect you to perform on a deadline, no ifs, ands or buts. You don't get to tell them "I wasn't inspired to write anything!" It doesn't work that way. We do this because it is something that needs to be done. We love doing it, obviously, but we don't get to take days off for no good reason. If writing is what you want to do, then writing is something you will do to the exclusion of just about anything else. Otherwise, find some other interest. You aren't cut out for this one.
Hi everyone, Thank you all so much for the valuable and constructive advice on what I should do - I really appreciate your feedback. I do want to clarify something however, its not that I don't crave this enough or that I'm not motivated to write everyday (you don't have to write everyday to actually work on your novel) but that I can't seem to get past the outlining stage of a novel and as time goes by I guess I lose faith in that work and get hit with the shiny new idea syndrome. There are a lot of useful and very helpful tips in this conversation that I will be using to hopefully push me further in writing my book. Massive thank you to you all and wish you all the best with your writing endeavours
Everyone has that. It's all about self-control and self-determination. Your brain wants to keep you lazy, it conserves energy that way. It is easier to think of ideas than execute them so it keeps throwing out new ideas so you never get around to doing any actual work. You have to be in control of your brain. Figure out what you're going to write and write it. If you come up with a different idea, make some notes, set it aside and get back to work. Have realistic expectations. Your first book is going to suck. Deal with it. Your first six books are going to suck. Deal with that too. Nobody ever said this would be easy, don't pretend it will be. If you want to do it, you will do it. If you fail, you didn't want it that much. That's just the reality of writing. It's between you, your dedication to the craft and your keyboard. Nothing else matters. Nobody else can help. Get to work.
It sounds like you might be putting too much of the energy into the outlining. If you go too far with it it becomes a project in its own right and drains all the energy that should go into the writing. Just outline loosely and rapidly, then move on. One part of the problem is that if you do most of the work in the outline stage, then the actual writing has no spark of creativity left. It's all been figured out already. Then writing it is nothing but dull plodding work. You need to leave quite a bit of the creativity for the writing itself. In fact, I've seen advice in many places (including this message board) that you shouldn't outline until after the first draft is done, because outlining comes from the logical/rational part of the mind (which is very reductive) while writing in prose form comes from the creative side (expansive). So if you outline too extensively (or too early) you create an elaborate cage in which you then sit to write. Let the ideas emerge naturally in sentence / paragraph form for the draft, then wrangle them into shape through an outline.
You are 100% right in what you are saying. I just need to sit down and get on with it. Thank you for the tough advice though, I needed to hear that from someone
More people need that attitude. The forums (all of them, not just here) are stuffed with amateurs who expect writing to be easy and fun 100% of the time and when it turns out to be hard work, they demand to be shown the shortcuts and how to succeed without trying. Those things simply do not exist. There is no such thing as being "motivated" 24/7. Muses do not exist. Sitting around on your duff waiting for the words to magically appear in your head is a waste of time. Writing is hard work. You either want to do it or you don't. The more you do it, the easier it gets, but it's never a walk in the park. Some people get it and some people don't. The ones who don't, sadly, aren't worth trying to help. Glad you're not like that.
Wow, this was as if I'd written it myself! All of what you just said above has been me for the last three years. I keep wasting good ideas (people have told me they are good) that I like because I spend too long on the planning stage. I too am attempting YA Fantasy and I just can't seem to settle on an idea. I know a few things I want to explore but can never settle on an idea. If you don't, try reading more broadly in the genre. Try planning a chapter at a time then write it. Then plan the next chapter and write it. Try some short material. I did this and posted some of it for others to read. Rather than wasting time not writing anything, I thought I'd do some short fiction and at least try and improve my skills and confidence. And teach myself some discipline, commitment, and how to write even when deeply distracted by life problems and stresses. It also gets you into a routine. Life will always get in the way. I've also found having goals can get in the way. So, if you're long term goal is to publish, that can often affect your writing because you immediately start criticizing it and asking 'would anyone read it?' You start tailoring too much to agent expectations or audiences. This was one of my problems but thought I'd mention it. Hope this helped.
I think if your outline dissatisfies you, maybe you aren't passionate enough about the idea. When you're outlining, you haven't committed yet. Nothing wrong with spending more time jotting ideas down until there's one you feel you have to write. In my experience, when I had ideas I thought were good I wanted to write them out. Planning and trying to get an idea you care about is the least fun part of writing. And it feels like time wasted, when actually it's an essential part of the process. The actual writing isn't all writing is about. Planning is equally essential. If you want to hear that satisfying clack clack of the keyboard, keep a journal about how pissed off you are with the process. Then get back to it.
I'm hoping to take part in July's NaNoWriMo next month which I think will be great fun! I haven't taken part in something like this before so it will be an experience to say the least. As I want to take part in it, it also gives me a deadline to finish planning - so by the end of June which is what I need I think. Thank you all for the fab advice! I'm surprised I had many replies, all of which were very helpful!
