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  1. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Surname Vs First

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by OurJud, Sep 1, 2017.

    Do any of you have any self-imposed rules on whether to use surnames or first names for your characters? I know the general consensus is it doesn't matter so long as you're consistent, but I always wonder why some writers sometimes choose to use only surnames. Is it down to the tone of the book or simply personal preference?

    When I'm reading a book I do get this sense that surnames sound stronger somehow, but I don't know where that comes from. And of course if your characters are close they're unlikely to refer to one another by surname, which could get very confusing.
     
  2. Aardvark

    Aardvark Member

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    I usually see the usage of surnames dependent on the character. Mostly, I see this is done to bolster a sense of the character's strength or authority. Alternatively, I see it done on the opposite end of the spectrum with silly characters if the surname suits them. I've also seen surname usage to convey mysteriousness.

    Starbuck from BSG - strength
    Bretodeau from Amelie - mysterious
    Peeves from HP - silly

    *Peeves literally means "causing annoyance"

    It's what fits the character.
     
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  3. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    In my WIP I use surnames for most of the characters (Mil-Sci-fi).
    It just depends on the genre and the characters in your story.
    Though you don't have to use only the surnames, it just depends
    on what context you are trying to convey for a given persona.
    In most it is not common to refer to ones last name when speaking
    of them (at least not that I have seen).
    Though you have to consider some series and books.
    While Battle Star Galactica uses a ton of surnames, Bios Of a Space
    Tyrant does not. Starbuck does not instill as much authority as
    Hope Hubris does. Just like most would use a nickname or a
    call sign to covey some form of power or status.

    Good luck. :)
     
  4. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    How you refer to your character can depend of the situation as well. Referring to a character by their full name, surname or title (like Col. William Hopkins) can give them a sense of authority in a scene, but if you want, you can strip them of that by calling them by an unflattering nickname of diminutive term (like Little Billy Hopscotch or some such). You can also use familiar terms to create a mood of intimacy of comradery in scenes (Bill, Will, or William). So long as you establish who you're referring to so you're readers don't get confused, there's really no reason to stick to one or the other and switching it up on occasion can help keep reader interest.
     
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  5. Sclavus

    Sclavus Active Member

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    What @The Dapper Hooligan said. My character has his given name and a nickname. I decide which one to use based on the mood I want for the scene. If he's off-balance and vulnerable, he's Vincent. If he's in his element, he's Jester. If he's in trouble with an authority, I've often found (without forcing it) that someone or something will refer to him as "Achan, Vincent Arden." People who really want to piss him off will call him Vinny, at which point someone's going to lose something they'd rather keep.

    Edited to Add: The exception to "Vincent" is his love interest. She calls him Vincent after a certain point because she's one who has seen his demons, so to speak, and agreed to fight them with him. She calls him "Vincent" out of affection and love. If she calls him "Vincent Achan," then he's going to lose something he'd rather keep.
     
  6. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Depends on your POV. If you're writing close third or close first, you call the characters what your POV character would call them. If you're writing omniscient third, you call them what your omniscient narrator would call them. If you're writing something without a clear POV character, you can play around a bit more.
     
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  7. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Thank you all for your replies.

    I'm going to single out @BayView's answer as the most relevant to my needs. Having read what you've said it suddenly 'clicked' that I need to refer to my protagonist by his first name and antagonist by surname, simply because I'll be stepping back slightly when I write chapters on the antagonist.
     
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  8. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    I'm discovering I've hit a bit of a snag with this subject.

    I refer to my MC by his first name, but so far the people he's encountered have all been on a surname only basis.

    This means I'm referring to him by his first name in the narrative, but the other character is referring to him by his surname in dialogue.

    Before I go any further, am I making a huge mistake here? It's perfectly clear to me who's who, but that's probably only because I created the characters.
     
  9. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    I suppose a snippet may help. The MC's name is Otto Gaines - a fact I make clear at the start of the book.
    ------------
    He eventually spotted his man bent over a bowl of noodles at one of the stalls. He climbed on the stool beside him and ordered a beer.

    'Gaines,' he grunted without turning his head. 'Was beginning to think you'd decided to clean yourself up.'

    The stall holder sat Otto's beer down and walked away out of ear-shot. He'd learned long ago to play deaf for the customers round here.
     
  10. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Your pronouns are a bit unclear... is it:

    X eventually spotted... X climbed on the stool... "Gaines," X grunted...

    Or is is:

    Gaines eventually spotted... Gaines climbed on the stool... "Gaines," X grunted...


    This would probably be clearer with more context, but with just the excerpt, I'm not sure what's going on.

    But I don't think there's as problem with using both Otto and Gaines, as long as you've made it clear earlier that they're the same person.
     
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  11. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Omniscient-ish heah-hop into the bartender here. I only mention it because we were discussing it in the other thread :whistle:
     
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  12. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    I'm pretty sure it's because I've taken the extract out of context, and that it's obvious who 'he' is - at least in the first line here.

    Possibly needs to be a bit clearer - thanks.
    Nooo! And I really liked this little observation. You say '...ish', which I agree with because the line could easily have been an observation from the MC, yes?

    For the record, I ditched the MC's first name and changed his surname to one that sounds fine both in the narrative and dialogue.
     
  13. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Haha, it's fine... just citing it as an example. You can keep it if you like. It's a good line. It won't give us poison ivy or anything. It's possible the MC would surmise this but he probably wouldn't observe it... not with the way you phrased it. It's a pretty easy fix (and a fun little exercise):

    Here's the original line, which is a head hop, regardless of effectiveness (still a good line):

    He'd learned long ago to play deaf for the customers round here.

    Rewritten in close third from the observer's head:

    He would have learned long ago to play deaf for the customers round here.

    Rewritten again with a filter and a bit of distance:

    He would have learned long ago to play deaf for the customers round here, MC thought.

    All three options keep the line intact.
     
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  14. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Thanks. Like you say an easy fix. Very easy to rewrite it as MC's assumption.
     
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  15. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Sorry to dig this up again, but as it strayed a little off topic I find myself concerned again with the original question.

    How do we get around the problem that some characters would naturally refer to one another by surname, and others by first name?

    Typical example would be protagonist talking with antagonist (where it feels right to use surnames) and protagonist talking with family member/good friend (where it feels right to use first names).

    I tried to combat this by searching for names which could be either surname or first name, but this proved more difficult than I imagined and while I found a suitable one for MC, I struggled finding names for the whole cast.

    This has resulted in characters calling one another by surname, where they wouldn't naturally do so, making things sound a little unnatural.

    I can't be the only one who wonders about this, so what's the answer?
     
  16. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    We go through pretty much every season of the X-Files with the protagonists calling each other Mulder and Scully even though it's established pretty early that they're close friends. It's only when you get into emotional scenes where they call each other Fox and Dana. Whatever they call each other depends on the relationship they have. If they're close friends that call each other by last names, then why not? Establishing why might be good, but that's up to you.
     
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  17. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    I honestly don't see a problem. Go with what makes sense for character to call each other (eg I'm not going to call my brother by his last name, but if I know two dudes named Bill one might end up being called by his last name [or even full name] to differentiate), and as long as you make the applicable peoples' full names clear to start with, it should be fine. I can think of plenty examples like Hooligan's where characters are referred to by title, first name, last name, mom/dad, etc, and if I've been confused, it was probably just the fault of spottily bad writing. Pronoun confusion, again, eh.

    Not everyone needs a full name - only those who're going to be called by both portions of them at different times - if that's being a hassle for you.
     
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  18. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Are we talking about dialogue or narration? In dialogue, the characters should say whatever they would naturally say. If you're afraid that the reader might be confused, you could insert the usual narrative name near the dialogue-stated name.

    "Hey. Joe." Smith tapped Marsh on the shoulder. "Are we taking your car?"

    Of course, this requires that I arrange a reason for Smith to need to attract Marsh's attention, so it may take some staging. Another option:

    Smith asked, "Joe, are we taking your car?"

    Webster said, "Are you kidding? Marsh would never let us near his pristine upholstery."
     
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  19. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    But this is my fear. Isn't your example an absolute minefield in terms of confusing the reader? The 'advice' I've read is that surname or first name, it matters not, so long as you're consistent.

    Switching between surname in the narrative and first name in dialogue (where appropriate) seems like a recipe for disaster.

    Or maybe I'm just not giving my reader enough respect.
     
  20. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I think it's pretty common to use different names depending on the person speaking/POV. I wouldn't worry about it.
     
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  21. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    @BayView

    Well then I shan't [worry about it].

    Thanks everyone.
     
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