Well the Christian God, Jewish YHWH and Muslim Allah are one and the same divine being - the differences lie in the way they're worshipped. The others do not acknowledge Christ as the Son of God - it's only through Jesus that we can reach God, simply following the Commandments is not enough.
Well, isn't it odd that those that worshiped the Abrahamic religions were in the most contact with one another? What about the Norse myths? the Asian institutions? American religions?
I think they died out because, unlike the Abrahamic religions, and others like Hinduism and Buddhism, people stopped following them for one reason or another. The Greeks were invaded by the Romans, and the Romans and the Norse were then converted to Christianity. American mysticism is still alive and well in some parts, I believe.
Course are. The Al part of the word means it is specific (the) and the ilah means god. So it is The God, as the true God. Arab Christians tend to refer to God as Allah, because it's the same is the Muslim's God. As far as the fact abotu not having a female word for God is concerned is simple. There are certain things in which male characteristics are superior, while in others female characteristics are superior. E.g. no prophet was female, but no prophet was born without a mother (that is, except Adam and Eve. Jesus Christ (P.B.U.H) had a mother and no father). Similarly, the word Allah is male but the characteristic of Allah being hidden is equilant to the characteristic of women convering up. Mind you, this is not a final remark, it is just a piece of my mind. There are many other things which men do not excell in but women do. It's a test. You don't tell the answers just like that in a test. The Qura'an says that if Allah wanted, He would've made them udnerstand everything with ease. Allah is beyond human facilities to be sighted or felt. As in the Qura'an, when Moses wished to see Allah, he fainted and an entire mountain was destroyed thoguh Allah barely came into his sight. Just one speck of His precense finished the deal. So, God is not like a human. He is far superior, with no weaknesses or family requirements. The perfect picture of a God comes in Surah Ikhlaas: "Say: He is Allah, the one and only. The Eternal Absolute. He begeth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him."
A test? Why wasn't the exam even distributed to everyone then? Those on other continents didn't even get the same studying material. And his prophets seemed to come with different messages, which seems quite odd seeing as he's perfect and all. If 'The God' is so powerful, everyone could go to heaven right now, right? Why would there be any need to test anyone seeing as how he could just make perfect beings like himself? Why wouldn't he just be able to tell who is good without the test? That whateverness about the mountain, that is completely irrelevant. How do you know it wasn't exaggerated or invented? Let me guess... it's true simply due to the fact that it's printed in that book, right? Better yet... if he needs nothing, why the hell does he need us? This perfect being seems like he'd be an egocentric megalomaniac.
It was distributed to all, in their age and area. The books Torah and bible have been corrupted - proof in the fact taht they are scientifically flawed, and Qura'an backs it up. Moses and Jesus and all other prohets were Muslims, but after some generations their followers corrupted what they taught them. Qura'an is for all the people of all times, and if you look into it, it's a scientifically accurate 'modern' religion. A test is to see who is really worthy of heaven. Mind you, we aren't perfect thus many of us are to be in heaven due to Allah's mercy. Allah knew what was going to happen, but think; if he had let put the sinners in hell and the good-doers in heaven, the good-doers would not know why they were there in the first place, but wouldn't care either. The sinners would question why did He punish them. When He'd tell why, the question would again arise - was He really just? Since Allah is just, and to have no flaw in His scheme of justice, He let's us live this life, so we'd know. These beliefs come after Tauhid and belief in Allah. Since you don't have either, to you they are fairy tales. But for those who believe they are wise truths. He doesn't need us. Who in the world told you that? Allah says in Hadis Qudsi: "I was a hidden treasure, and I wished that I be recognized, so I created this universe." He created this world out of love, and to reward his devout followers, but those who were sinners would be punished. Why, you ask? Because He's just. A just teacher would never help a child cheating, subsquently the Most Just would never let out on the sinners, but nevertheless - his mercy is more than that of a 70 mothers. Allah says again and again, that the sinning of the sinners does not worry Him. Their plots do not indignify Him. "They plot and they plan, but Allah too plans - and the best of planners is Allah." Allah does not reward us out of need, he rewards us out of the Goodness, Mercy and Justice which He posesses. This perfect being seems like he'd be an egocentric megalomaniac. I can't understand that where you talk about being moral people without any need of religion, you have no respect for any one. I may sound touchy, but this is bad manners and ill behavior. To you Allah is just a word, or even less, but to someone else it is not. When you know that, you shouldn't adorn it with pathetic phrases. Don't be sick retards and act your claims. Sorry, if I personally attacked you, but this bickering really makes me angry.
Not really. "Non-religion" or "atheism" is not an ideal, certainly not one intentionally based on doctrines. Existing is simply existing. It's a term made up and used to pigeonhole those who simply do not follow a religion. The point here is that morals do not originate form religion. People always think they do because of the ten commandments stories. Have you ever studied the behaviours of wild animals? It's very fascinating. You'll see that even animals can display behaviours that show certain morals (both good and bad). Similarly, everyone assumes this "free will" thing is only human privilege. Yet even a semi-domesticated dog or cat will show you very obviously that they behave as they want. And instincts come in to calling when they are in situations when they feel intimidated...just like us! So even though people can argue semantics and philosophy on free will and if it ever exists, one thing is for sure and that is every organism has its own nature which it is not above i.e. all animals - including humans - display freedom of behavioural choice, but in a given situation instincts do play a vital role in an outcome (live or die). Religion and religious doctrine try to own the monopoly on this type of knowledge, and that anthraxx flip-flopper will use fancy semantics to argue the contrary, but she is only really convincing herself based on religious ignorance.
Exactly. In that area. If god was so powerful, why didn't every human being receive the same? No religious wars due to the fact that everyone would be able to judge their existence by his word. ... Well, he seems to know what he is... right? He could have created all as equals, with as much insight as him and alleviated all the pain and suffering. It seems someone so great would just find a way to structure the 'evil-doers', and have the others learn from their mistakes. That statement was exactly what I was referring to. He's saying that he created the world so that people would marvel at his astronomical powers. Megalomaniacal. Okay. If someone is cheating on a test, it means they don't know the material, right? Thusly he should find a way to set them straight, not develop plans against his own creations. We're to believe in him, but not the other way around?
Oh dear! Black magic does not exist anymore than the magic in the Harry Potter books. It’s not just that, it’s also called ”Yoga”. Lol Man’s psyche recognises intellectual and philosophical void i.e. unanswerable questions. When we have unanswerable questions our minds tend to resort to either the supernatural or broad philosophical in order to find answers. Answers within religion some may be for those searching for religion. Conclusive they certainly are not! Jesus didn’t make up stories of his supposed “miracles”. That was the work of the ones responsible for decoding and translating of the bible from its earlier Latin text. People have misinterpreted the stories in the bible as literal when they are metaphor. Wrong again. The theory of the Big Bang is a scientific theory. Atheists are people who do not have a religion. Many scientists may in fact be strong atheists, but they DO NOT theorise on the basis that they are atheists. Many are, many are not. Being atheist is incidental and is not the cause of their happiness or unhappiness. Many people have shame and self-respect regardless whether they are religious or not. I have plenty of shame when I do something wrong and the morals I know are not from religion. In your mind Right and wrong is whatever your religion tells you. This is where fanaticism comes from hence where your rather derogatory “speck of dirt” comment comes from. You assume that those without religion are automatically bad people. Do they still practice stoning in Pakistan for being an infidel? I’ll bet this does happen. And yet atheists do not kill just because they are atheists. Get the point? So? I’ve met many religious people who were also rude and arrogant. And there were a lot more than 100 and above of them! And we have seen in the last six years (as an example) scars on both the psyche and body because of faith. You’ve got to be kidding me! This proves then that the contents of the Qu’ran really are re-written. Ha! Lmfao Good, but you are only a minority. The larger majority are indoctrinated into religion at a very young age. 7 years is still very young to be considered to have a strong independent sense of the surrounding world. Is it "right” to refer to people who don’t follow a religion as nothing more than a speck of dirt with no self-respect and manners? Maybe it is right to stone a woman to death for the sake off religious “honour” while at the same time blatantly ignoring why a woman (or man) has an extra-marital affair. It is because the human heart is bigger and stronger than any religion and will overcome them even when the risks to one’s life are high. You’re already an atheist by definition of you don’t follow a religion. How can you “be” if you’re “not”? And you can’t prove there is a god. You say you can, you say the Qu’ran proves it, but I have still yet to see proof. There is none because it’s nothing but faith. Cells are part of the building blocks responsible for biological entities and their functions. Imagination is something in the mind. God or gods are supernatural entities. Supernatural entities exist in the mind. You know very little about what I have become to know. I once grew up in a christian household and found myself curious about why religion (any religion) fails to answer almost any plausible question without it relying on the favourite chestnut: “god did it”. I’m sorry, but I’m not naïve, gullible or stupid to just blindly accept this type of absent-minded silliness. “If you ever questioned the validity of your religion for just one second your whole fantasy world would come crashing down.” – Me.
Allah did let everyone receive the same since the beginning. The first humans received pure Islam from Adam AND Eve, but then the religion was distorted by them when a prophet did not. Since people belonged to different places, they distorted them in their own way. It is easier to grow a flower, than to correct a distorted flower. It requires more proof, effort and cooperation on the part of the flower. So was the case with those people (and you too don't mind). It is scientifically known that man passed evolution, thus supreme knowledge could not be provided to them at that time. Thus, prophets came to them during their era and area, depending on the wrong-doing they were indulged in (Madain were ill-intentioned merchants, Firaun claimed to be god, etc). When human mind and situation became suitable for a proper revelation, Qura'an was revealed. "We created you from one man and one woman, and made you into tribes and nations so that you may recognize each other." We have beauty in our own way of life - not in context of religion, but nationality - Pakistanis have a different dress than Chinese, Americans (if their more appropriate dresses considered) have their own fashion compared to the Malays...it's the part of the uniqueness Allah wanted in us. The reason I get irritated when you added pathetic phrases to Allah is because you are denying the possibility of respect and toleration, which is the guiding principle in enjoying being a part of a culture. Allah created us as different individuals, with our own strengths and weaknesses. This was not to create havoc; this was to allow goodness to prevail. You see, if no one was poor or rich, and everyone was equal, there would be no concept of generosity. If all were beautiful and looked alike, no one ugly, there would be no concept of individuality. No one would realize how lucky they are, because 'they're like everyone else'. Allah created man in a way that he/she gets bore with monotony. Do you think we could have tolerated such boredom? In a test, no matter how much you scold sometimes, your student doesn’t stop cheating. I had a class fellow who was beat with a plank studded with nails (not that it's good...), and valiantly said to the teacher: 'Is that the best you can do?'. Man is arrogant, and will always be. Even now, students are failed, suspended, and terminated, but they keep thinking they were never wrong. Since you can't let them cheat on a test, they have to learn from their mistakes too. For Allah all are equal, thus He cannot give the wrong-doers a leverage in human rights. For example, Hitler killed about 5 million Jews. Now, Allah cannot 'structure' him without burning him in hell, eh? He will get burned 5 million times in hell for each Jew he killed. On the Day of Judgment, no one will be treated unjustly. The wrong-doers will pay their punishment, but many will be relieved. There will be several stages of pulling out the people in hell. From the one who have faith in Allah of a mustard seed to that of an atom to that of those who only said There is no god but Allah, will be relieved of hell and be placed in heaven. This is their 'structuring', because the good ones cannot be back-stabbed by just brainwashing the bad people. That's just like filling out the cheater's test and the studious kids in the class just watch in discontent. Wikipedia: Megalomania is a state of mental illness often characterised by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence. It includes an obsession with grandiose or extravagant things or actions. Princeton: a psychological state characterized by delusions of grandeur. Firstly, it is not even applicable. Allah cannot have delusions, fantasies or obsessions because He knows all. The problem with atheists is that you equate Allah to a human. He's not a human. He's the best, and when we say the best, we have to keep it in mind - even as your fantasy. Anyways, even if I agree God Forbid, this is possible, then let's see. Arabic language is a very comprehensive language, and when translated to English, doesn't necessarily give the deepest meanings. Allah created this universe for a simple reason - He wanted to show his love and grace. Fro example, you have lots of sweets and candies, but no one to give. Suppose, you 'create' some dwarfs, and decide to give them candies. Since they have free will, some of them would exploit and cheat and are not deserving of candy. Since you are just, you would give them a punishment and give the deserving dwarfs the candy. If that’s megalomaniacal yadi yada then excuse me, I need to laugh in a corner because my sister definitely has it. For those who do not the material, they will not be questioned. Simple. It's not the teacher's fault that when she was explaining the course, there were some tardy kids, some of which were justified. For example, if I have a Hindu/Atheist/any servant, and I do not tell him about Islam, he will go to Heaven - I will, unfortunately, burn in hell for not telling him. Any part of religion with is not known by someone because of circumstances or others, they will not be questioned. Instead, those who did not convey it to them will be punished. For example, if the tardy student who was innocent would not be told about anything important taught to them, those who did not tell will be punished by the teacher. Unlike you, and those who are reading this, atheists not knowing about Qura'an and the Sunnah will not be punished. The material - The Qura'an and Sunnah. Ho hum. (BTW, like chocolates?
WARNING: CONTAINS EXPLICIT WORDS. Proud much? Anyways, I haven't even read Harry Potter, I personally don't like the genre to start with. I've just seen J.K.'s excerpts and she writes good. Anyways, where was I...yes, well you know pretty little to claim that. To begin with, it does exist, but anyways, it's about the methods you use. Wiccans have their own and others have their own. Want to meet a black magic weaver in Pakistan? Visit Badshahi mosque (Unfortunately. ) Yes, I agree. I really despise those Muslims/Christians/whatever who impose religion on their children. As far as your argument about age 7 is concerned, is invalid. The way children are brought up in the West and now even in the East has caused this trouble. A child can make pretty sharp decisions at 7 - if 8 year olds date and know about s** (not sure if it's ok to say it here) then making a simply decision of logic, in this era, should be a piece of cake. Many children get married at the age of 13, and they do alright. They aren't forced marriages always - sometimes the girls and boys take such steps. The ways of bringing up children have changed and instead of making them mature and capable, at young age we often let them stay innocent. I know and have seen children much younger than me do things and make decisions I can't imagine. My sister was just a child when she used to travel on muddy trains from rocky mountains to hot desert areas – often virtually alone. It's how you design your child's life, not the age necessarily. Legal age for s** used to be as early as 6 in China...and that's not because the only purpose of life was s**, it was because that's how the children were taught to take things in their hands. I'm not saying your three year old should drive teh car, I'm just saying that children can and are brought up very differently. I made a decision about Islam when I was just a kid - because that's how I was brought. My mother never forced me in, instead she finds it a little irritating that I try to be adherent of Islam (social standings - sigh). It's how you teach your child life principles. I said, those who do not have self-respect and manners, are nothing more than specks of dirt. I did not mean to personally attack atheists - my apologies. Well, it's true. Morality and humanity, if do not exist in a human, then he is nothing more than that. As far as stoning women for honor is concerned, let me first tell you that it is highly exploited. These countries, like Egypt, who do such things falsely, are committing three crimes in Islamic Shariah. 1. Blaming a chaste woman/man. (Prophet (P.B.U.H) said that to blame a chaste woman is deserving of flogging.) 2. Killing. (Killing is haraam in Islam, except in war or for avenging blood of a murdered person) 3. Misrepresenting Islam. (This is a serious sin, since hypocrites are to be in the lowest chamber of hell.) Then comes the stoning part. Firstly, it's supposed to be just so rare that even one woman/man will get stoned in an Islamic nation even once a year. Why, you ask? Because, Islam EXTREMELY discourages spying, or entering an elders room without permission. You can't find someone having a relationship easily, therefore. Even if you do, you are ASKED AGAIN AND AGAIN to zip your mouth. Unless the evil act is so apparent that up to four people have seen it, then even so IT IS BETTER to zip your mouths. Even so, if you go to the court, the judge will punish the person(s). However, if the witnesses are less than four, they will be stoned instead for blaming. If any witness cannot be trusted (upon checking contacts) than he/she will not be accepted. If a person himself/herself goes to the court, asking for being stoned (since punishment is repentance), even then the Judge can ask him/her to be spared. If the Judge decides to stone him/her, he should NOT ask for the other partner. If the adulterer tells himself/herself, the Judge may question the person, but if the person refuses he/she will not be further bothered. If during stoning, the person reverses his/her or tries to run away, they should be spared. Now, why stone (where 80 stones for unmarried people and stoning to death for married couples, and 100 stones for a molester)? The reason being, that the severity of the punishment itself will discourage potential molesters/adulterers. Some one who dares, has every chance of being treated in this way (because a molester can be easily stoned on saying of the woman, adulterers do not exactly hurt the society), and after someone sees this is possible, there is hardly any chance that this will happen again. The severity itself makes a person understand the weight of the crime. A stoned person, living or dead, is as good as a newborn baby, according to Hadith. Another hadith states that whosoever hides the faults of another, his faults will be hidden by Allah on the Day of Judgment. This means that getting someone stoned is so difficult in Islamic Shariah that you can just dream about it. As far as why, then really, why? S***** dissatisfaction? What else? If you really have such a problem, then why didn't you spit it out? Isn't the purpose of Talaaq and Khula to avoid this? Your child could go to temples and be a Hindu, then you'll have to ask him to 'be' nothing What more proof do you need, than the fact that it contains laws which were not discovered at that time? Big bang theory, The world being egg-shaped (circle isn't enough these days), the correct order of child development, the foretelling of the 9/11 incident, the idea that all things are made of water, the idea that man is made of mud (true, since all our elements are the same as in mud), the moon not having it's own light and what not! The reason these aren't alterations, is in the next answer. Someone once had them in their imaginations, because at that time they could not be proven. Having little resources as humans, we cannot prove the spiritual theories (the stories of Lut, Moses and so forth which you laugh at) but we can secure the spiritual theories by the solid scientific proof in Qura'an. You'd wish They aren't, like I said. Pick up a copy of Qura'an and look up the museum in Turkey where the old copy of Hazrat Usman's compilation lies. They are twins. Now you say they've changed. Ohk, but my forefather's Qura'an has been with us since 80 years. Big bang wasn't discovered until a while after that. My illiterate ancestors, who didn't know English, and Pakistan (unfortunately) never had the resources to give village-wide coverage of the issue, they never knew there was this big-bang. My parents only learned after years what it was, and mother still doesn't know lol (I should tell her ). Similarly, if the old copy was changed, technically all the copies of Qura'an in the whole wide world should've been different from this copy. This means, that it was never altered. If it would've been, my new Qura'an and that old Qura'an would be different. Non-Muslim scientists also agree the museum copy has not been tampered with, after passing it through tests. It is about 1400 years old, and that's why it's authentic. Fret much? (Oh , sorry for misarranging this, I kinda just woke up.). 0_o So are you telling me that Yogis speak Arabic? I guess you refer to the Buddhists and Hindus and similar people who have an importance for Yoga. Yoga is meditation for these religions, and Islam provides meditation in its own ways (tasbeeh, namaz, etc). A research hasn't been conducted, but when it is, I guess I can answer this question more comprehensively. I've already answered this question. o_0 Rrriighht. I'm talking about the Old Testament, by the way. I'm not sayign it isn't altered, but the very thing that the stoires are the same as that in Qura'an, is the perpexuality. They were translated from Hebrew before the time of the Prophet (P.B.U.H) fas well as Latin, but nto to Arabic, thus your accusation that they were enhanced later on is flase. Many peopel read Hebrew, which was the language of Bible and there is no metaphorical evidence in the script. But, alas, atheists cannot prove God doesn't exist good neough without this theory. Your psychological void theory is pretty weak in itself. Alas, I wish you were true! According to a research by David B. Larson, of the American National Health Research Center, and his team, comparisons of devout and non-religious Americans have given very surprising results. For instance, religious people suffer 60% less heart disease than those with little or no religious belief, the suicide rate among them is 100% lower, they suffer far lower levels of high blood pressure and the ratio is 7:1 amongst smokers. It was reported in one study published in the International Journal of Psychiatry in Medicine, an important scientific source in the world of medicine, that who people who describe themselves as having no religious beliefs become ill more frequently and have shorter life spans. According to the results of the study, those with no beliefs are twice as likely to suffer stomach-intestine diseases than believers, and their morality rate from respiratory dieseases is 66% times higher than that of believers. Secular psychologists tend to refer to similar figures as psycological effects. This means that beliefs raises a peoples' spirits, and this contributes to health. This explanation may be indeed reasonable, but a more striking conclusion emerges when the subject is examined. Belief in Allah is much stronger than any other psychological influence, The wide-raging research into the connection between religious belief and physical health carried out by Dr. Herbert Benson of the Harvard Medical Faculty has produced surprising conclusions in this area. Despite not being a believer himself, Dr. Benson has concluded worship and belief in Allah have a more positive effect on human health than that observed in anything else. Benson states than he has concluded than no belief provides as much mental peace as beliefs in Allah. The conclusion reached by secular researcher Benson is, for connection of this belief and human soul+body, in his own words that the human body and mind are regulated to believe in Allah. The Qura'an itself states: '...Only in the remembrance of Allah can the heart find peace.' I have gotten a little carried away there. Forgive me. Nevertheless, it is true that atheists have certain characteristics which come from disbelief. The infidels are not stoned here. Anyways, I'll clear up this feeling that Islam is anti-NonMuslims. Killing, insulting or misbehaving with a non-Muslim is just as bad as doign it with a Muslim. The Prophet (P.B.U.H.) said: "A Muslim is the one from whose hands and tongue others are safe." Read up on the Charter of Madina, Charter of Christians, Incidents associated with Treaty of Hudaibiya and the Conquest of Makkah. They show how Non-Muslims are as sacred to us as Muslims. As far as infidel 'killing' is concerned, it is for a simpel reason. In Islam, life isn't a plaything unliek for many people. "Did you think We created you for amusement and that you would not return to Us?" (surah Mominoon, Verse 115) Similarly, either you accept religion either don't. Don't 'play' with it. This is in reference to those who accept Islam, and then renounce - for born Muslims situation is different. You cannot betray your wife and expect her to be okay with it - similarly, you cannot betray Islam. Already answered. Not because of faith, but in the name of faith. I’m sorry, but I’m not naïve, gullible or stupid to just blindly accept this type of absent-minded silliness EITHER. There is proof why God exists - and that's why I believe in it. “If you ever questioned the validity of your atheism for just one second your whole fantasy world would come crashing down.” – Me.
Funny how you keep mentioning that science is so atheistic, yet every time you provide something from the Quran it's supposedly scientific. What do you mean by "man passed evolution"? Would it not be more sensible to give the Quran when all the false prophets were on display? By the way, that flower metaphor makes no sense (I don’t remember them requiring proof or cooperation to grow). What about the other Abrahamic religions such as Judaism and Christianity? The same god supposedly did those as well, yet there are still differences – why is this when god is perfect, infallible? Why allow for his word to branch? That would then lead to everyone NOT receiving the same instructions. They made flawed followers purely because they wanted recognition? Get them some nametags and be done with it. I imagine perfect beings would be fully capable of knowing one from another. One doesn’t need flaws to have a different culture or be unique – the same problems arise in every part of the world. What phrases did I add? He wouldn’t need goodness to prevail if it were done the way I stated previously. Create beings so that they don’t get bored with monotony? Or maybe make a world that isn’t monotonous through other means? And what kind of a question is that? If we were made differently, we could do whatever the hell we wanted. What the f--k? Hit with a plank filled with nails? Did you ever think that there might be some others problems with that guy? He’s challenging authority, and it has nothing to do with that test. If those hypothetical people were failed, suspended, or terminated, and never thought they were wrong, it would be best to teach them otherwise. Don’t let them have their downward spiral, then punish them when the way you taught them failed. Allah can’t have: delusions, fantasies, or obsessions, though he can have: desires, happiness, a moral system – but in no way does he have human emotions and thoughts. That doesn’t make sense, it’s oxymoronic. You just told me that he created the world so that everyone would know how great he is – that is egocentric. Also, the candy metaphor doesn’t really work well. Seeing as how he is perfect, and is giving the candy (while monitoring them), he should ration them off, and make sure that everyone has their deserved share. The Big Bang theory and an “egg-shaped world”? Bring me what you’re talking about. (And no, the world is not a circle – that is a two-dimensional shape.) What do you mean by the “correct order of child development”? Not everything is made of water. By simply looking at both elements that make water, you would know that that statement is incorrect. Nor is it true that we are made of mud, we may carry similar elements, but we are far more complex. Also, attacks like that have taken place before – not to mention that it would be bound to happen if there was a whole following of people that wanted to strike an enemy.
Atheism is based on science. I never said science is atheistic. Man's brain and scheme of thinking have evoluted, like many other animals and plants in the world. Qura'an could not be given with limited thinking and expanse, which was overcome in the age of Prophet (P.B.U.H). By the flower metaphor, I mean that a ruined flower requires more attention, by the gardener and the cells of the flower. Or, more accurately, a sick patient requires more attention than a normal one. This attention, knowledge and willpower could not be driven up when man had limited brains. The reason Allah lets anything bad happen is simple. He has given the bad people leverage in this world because in long run, it will be much, much worse for them than anyone else, even in this life. Allah has given his final instructions in Qura'an, and if you don't want to follow it, that's your problem. God has made everything a test for us, and this is a test for the believers. Not 'They', He. Allah is one. Anyways, He doesn't need recognition when he has perfect and flawless angels at his service. He created man to distribute his love and mercy, like I said before. You aren't flawed, you're unique, and the feelings of mercy, respect and uniqueness only arise when you're weaker or stronger. When you're equals, you don't feel this way. You can't feel this way. Anyways, he didn't create beings not to feel monotony, He created beauty, array and specialty in everything He made for good ol' man. Another story he/she doesn't care thanking. You are made differently from one another. As far as doing whatever you wanted is concerned, you do much of the things you want to. What better way to teach them otherwise is the good golly Qura'an, 1 lac and above messengers (about 100,000 and above), miracles, this fruitful world? If they aren't learning, like you, then it isn't His problem. He has sent you down the message, and it's so good clear. I mean, anyone who can see and hear would accept it. Allah has all strengths, but no weaknesses. Happiness and joy are strengths of one, and the desire for good is also a strength. Princeton: -egoistic: limited to or caring only about yourself and your own needs -a self-centered person with little regard for others One, again, He's not only caring about Himself, He's given you so much, and you're still complaining. It's like saying that a charitable person is egocentric. Two, he is the Best. It's no lie. If it's so true, is there anything egocentric? He has every good quality, and He is perfect. Then why should He not do as He pleases? He is NOT HUMAN. Don’t' you get it? He has already given you your deserved share. And He will give you your deserved share in the Hereafter, if any. What do you want? Divinity? The big-bang theory is mentioned in the Qura'an i.e. it accepts that the world was made due to a 'bang'. "Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" Man's base is mud, isn't it? Sorry, in spirit of typing, I left the statement incomplete. Everything living is made of water. The foretelling of 9/11 is in a very interesting way. I'm in a hurry right now, I'll post it later. The child development is mentioned many times, and here is the once: 'Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay); Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed; Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (fetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!' (Surah Mominoon, Ayat 14) Wikipedia: 'The Earth's shape is very close to an oblate spheroid...' This is just like an egg's shape, right? The Qura'an agrees on that. Here's something I dug up which contains the details of everything 'miraculous' in the Qura'an. IF QURAN IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD THEN HOW CAN AN ILLITERATE PERSON BRING SUCH A BOOK 1400 YEARS AGO IN A DESERT? SCIENTIFIC MIRACLES OF THE QURAN. GOD says in the Quran: "Verily in that are Signs for those who are wise.” [Al-Qur’an 30:24] 1 THE COMING OF THE UNIVERSE INTO EXISTENCE 2 THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE 3 THE END OF THE UNIVERSE AND THE BIG CRUNCH 4 CREATION FROM HOT SMOKE 5 THE SPLITTING ASUNDER OF "THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH" 6 THE CREATION OF WHAT LIES BETWEEN THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH 7 THE PERFECT EQUILIBRIUM IN THE UNIVERSE 8 THE FINE TUNING IN THE UNIVERSE 9 THE STRUCTURAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SUN, THE MOON AND THE STARS 10 ORBITS AND THE ROTATING UNIVERSE 11 THE SUN'S TRAJECTORY 12 THE MOON'S ORBIT 13 CALCULATING THE LUNAR YEAR 14 THE FORCE OF GRAVITY AND ORBITAL MOVEMENTS 15 THE ROUNDNESS OF THE EARTH 16 THE EARTH'S DIRECTION OF ROTATION 17 THE EARTH'S GEOID SHAPE 18 THE DIAMETERS OF THE EARTH AND SPACE 19 THE LAYERS OF THE ATMOSPHERE 20 THE PROTECTED ROOF 21 THE SKY MADE A DOME 22 THE RETURNING SKY 23 THE LAYERS OF THE EARTH 24 THE EARTH DISGORGES ITS CHARGES 25 THE FUNCTION OF MOUNTAINS 26 THE MOVEMENT OF MOUNTAINS 27 DIFFERENT POINTS IN THE RISING AND SETTING OF THE SUN 28 LAND LOSS AT THE EXTREMITIES 29 THE SPLITTING EARTH 30 THE MIRACLE OF IRON 31 THE FORMATION OF PETROL 32 THE RELATIVITY OF TIME 33 CREATION IN SIX DAYS 34 THE TRUTH OF DESTINY 35 DUALITY IN CREATION 36 SUB-ATOMIC PARTICLES 37 BLACK HOLES 38 PULSARS: PULSATING STARS 39 THE STAR SIRIUS 40 LIGHT AND DARK 41 COMBUSTION WITHOUT FIRE 42 THE WEIGHT OF CLOUDS 43 THE PROPORTION OF RAIN 44 THE FORMATION OF RAIN 45 RAINS WHICH BRING A DEAD LAND BACK TO LIFE 46 THE FORMATION OF HAIL, THUNDER AND LIGHTNING 47 THE FECUNDATING WINDS 48 THE STAGES OF WIND FORMATION 49 HOW THE PROCESS OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS BEGINS IN THE MORNING 50 THE SEAS NOT MINGLING WITH ONE ANOTHER 51 DARKNESS IN THE SEAS AND INTERNAL WAVES 52 THE REGION THAT CONTROLS OUR MOVEMENTS 53 HEARTS FIND PEACE IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ALLAH 54 FORGIVENESS ACCORDING TO THE MORALS OF ISLAM AND ITS BENEFITS ON HEALTH 55 HOW PRAYER ACCELERATES THE TREATMENT OF THE SICK 56 STRESS AND DEPRESSION: THE RESULTS OF NOT ABIDING BY THE RELIGION 57 THE BIRTH OF A HUMAN BEING 58 THE CREATION OF HUMAN BEINGS FROM WATER 59 CREATION FROM CLAY 60 THE PROGRAMMING IN GENES 61 THE MENSTRUAL PERIOD 62 PREGNANCY AND BIRTH 63 THE SEQUENCE IN DEVELOPMENT OF HUMAN ORGANS 64 THE FORMATION OF MILK 65 MIRACULOUS MIXTURE: MOTHER'S MILK 66 THE IDENTITY IN THE FINGERPRINT 67 THE FEMALE HONEY BEE 68 THE MIRACLE OF HONEY 69 THE DATE AND ITS USES AS DESCRIBED IN THE QUR'AN 70 THE FIG: A FRUIT WHOSE PERFECTION HAS ONLY RECENTLY BEEN REVEALED 71 FISH: A VALUABLE SOURCE OF NUTRITION 72 PORK AND ITS HARMFUL EFFECTS ON HEALTH 73 THE OLIVE: A HEALTH-GIVING PLANT 74 CORONARY BY-PASS SURGERY 75 HEALTH BENEFITS OF MOVEMENT, WASHING AND DRINKING WATER 76 THE EXISTENCE OF MICROSCOPIC LIFE 77 THE EXISTENCE OF ANIMAL SOCIETIES 78 BIOMIMETICS: DRAWING INSPIRATION FROM THE DESIGN IN LIVING THINGS 79 LOCUSTS MOVING IN SWARMS 80 ANT COMMUNICATION 81 THE FOOD CYCLE 82 THE EARS ARE ACTIVE DURING SLEEP 83 THE IMPORTANCE OF MOVEMENT IN SLEEP 84 REDUCED MOVEMENT AT NIGHT 85 CHEST CONTRACTION WITH INCREASING HEIGHT PREDICTION OF THE QURAN 1: THE VICTORY OF BYZANTIUM 86: THE PRESERVATION OF PHARAOH'S BODY 87: THE CONQUEST OF MAKKAH 88: THE TRIBE OF ISRAEL WILL BECOME VERY HAUGHTY 89: THE EXPLORATION OF SPACE 90: THE VOYAGE TO THE MOON 91: MODERN MEANS OF TRANSPORT 92: PLANE TECHNOLOGY 93: IMAGE TRANSMISSION 94: SMELL TRANSFERENCE 95: THE USE OF ELECTRICITY 96: ARTESIAN WELLS 97: THE ARMY-ANT IN TECHNOLOGY 98: ATOMIC ENERGY AND FISSION THE HISTORICAL MIRACLES OF THE QURAN 99: "HAMAN" AND ANCIENT EGYPT MONUMENTS 100: PROPHET MUSA (AS) AND SEA'S SPLITTING IN TWO 101: THE TROUBLES WHICH AFFLICTED PHARAOH AND THOSE AROUND HIM 102: THE PROPHET MUSA (AS) REFERRED TO AS A MAGICIAN 103: THE WORD "PHARAOH" IN THE QUR'AN 104: NUH'S FLOOD 105: THE CITY OF IRAM 106: THE CITIES OF SODOM AND GOMORRAH 107: THE PEOPLE OF SABA AND THE ARIM FLOOD 108: THE PEOPLE OF AL-HIJR MATHIMATHICAL MIRACLES OF THE QURAN GOD says in the Quran: "Will they not ponder the Qur’an? If it had been from other than Allah, they would have found many inconsistencies in it. (Qur’an, 4:82) 109: WORD REPETITIONS IN THE QUR'AN 110: NUMEROLOGICAL CALCULATIONS (ABJAD) IN THE QUR'AN 111: THE MIRACLE OF 19 IN THE QUR'AN THE PERFECTION OF THE QURAN FROM THE LITERARY ASPECT God says in the Quran: "And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true."[002:023] 112: THE INIMITABILITY OF THE QUR'AN 113: COMMENTS ABOUT THE QUR'AN FROM VARIOUS SCHOLARS 114: A SELECTION OF OTHER STATEMENTS REGARDING THE QUR'AN ( Bush Tony blair and Clinton...) 115: THE QUR'AN IS THE WORD OF GOD FOOD MENTIONED IN THE QURAN GOD says in the Quran: " We send down (stage by stage) in the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe: to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss.[017:082] 116: FISH: A VALUABLE SOURCE OF NUTRITION 117: THE DATE AND ITS USES AS DESCRIBED IN THE QUR'AN 118: THE OLIVE: A HEALTH-GIVING PLANT 119: THE FORMATION OF MILK 120: THE MIRACLE OF HONEY 121: THE FIG: A FRUIT WHOSE PERFECTION HAS ONLY RECENTLY BEEN REVEALED 122: PORK AND ITS HARMFUL EFFECTS ON HEALTH Even now, if Allah doesn't exist, then kick in your face.
Why is it so difficult for you to understand? Anyone can CLAIM to have “magic powers”. But NO ONE has them for real. But you assume that only those with religion (namely Islam) are only moral and have manners. Simply accept that this is certainly by no means the case as evidenced by your next comment: Pretty cold don’t you think to stone someone for spying or entering an elder’s room? Won’t a slap on the wrists suffice, or is justice like this always so brutal? So much for Islamists caring so much about manners and respect. You would stone a child? Your culture is becoming more apparent as violent and brutal that you would go to the lengths to harm a child. If you state that indoctrinating a child into religion isn’t abuse then stoning them just because they witnessed an event between two adults most certainly IS abuse and it's because of your religion that this happens. At this point let me ask you both a separate and connected question: If this Allah is so mighty and infinite and will judge then why do you muslims go to the trouble of exacting justice yourselves? If that’s god’s work then why are you all doing it for him? How can a person run away from being stoned if they happen to be buried up to their necks in the ground? Absolute rubbish! If stoning worked then how come people keep molesting and committing adultery? In Britain we have rid our society of the death penalty because of new ways of finding evidence whether a person was guilty or not guilty of a crime. We have found out that a lot of people who were hanged were actually innocent but police investigations weren’t as advanced then as they are now. Another reason why we abolished capital punishment is that no matter how many death penalties were meted out people still committed heinous crimes. It seems your culture needs to be enlightened as much as this as well. It won’t be for a long time yet I see! The whole point of progressive enlightenment is to recognise that people’s relationships are no business of the state/government; they are in fact private. Not that I want to sound rude, but if adultery has happened then it’s none of your or the government’s business. These “proofs” are vague. The Qu’ran is not specific about 9/11, it’s vague. It’s the same type of vagueness that Nostradamus wrote in his Book of Centuries. It is only alleged and never proven as fact. I can write the same types of things just as long as I am vague and stay away from specifics. And it was science that proved them, NOT religion. This is what I meant by religion only caring about scientific theories ONLY when they are convenient for religion to hijack them for their own cause. Whilst at the same time completely ignoring the scientific proofs that goes against the validity of religions. You misunderstand. What people do in Yoga is partly callisthenics. You referred to speaking certain phrases/letters that are contained in the Arabic alphabet(?) that this is somehow proof of the healing power of Allah or saying “Allah”. What I meant was that this is incorrect as the movements you make when saying any letters has the same effect on the muscles in the mouth. No you haven’t. You’ve skirted around the issue with nothing more than religious claims. Atheists do not concern themselves with proving anything to do with religion. I think you mean science cannot prove the non-existence of god. If so then you are, by definition, correct. After all, how can something that doesn’t exist beyond the imagination be proven as in existence? Consider a fact that there has been about a TRILLION human deaths in history from the cause of religion (the Crusades being just one example amongst many) and your acumen about the health giving benefits of religion is almost completely irrelevant to the point of laughable. You’re missing the point of this report. Many people who do have religion due to them growing up in a religious environment (therefore not knowing any other way of living/thinking) and are unhappy about it will also have health problems and a shortened lifespan. Another convenient bit of misinformation. Religions (especially the three main ones: Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are ancient. “Psychological influences”, as you call it, obviously are more modern concepts/thought patterns. Naturally because of that people are still going to refer to religion as the main source of positive thinking because many people still do not know of better alternatives…yet. You miss another fundamental point here. Atheists who are law-abiding also see sacredness in other people. You don’t have to be religious to have respect for the sanctity of life. Similarly, many people who have been convicted of crimes may very well be atheists. But you’ll find, as I have said before, they didn’t commit crimes because they’re atheists. But religious people are ready to hurt in many ways because of their beliefs which they belive is above rational morals (i.e. “Righteous”). And if Allah already punishes people for committing what he sees as crimes then do muslims think it’s okay to do so as well? No you didn’t. You say you met about 100 or more atheists who you declared were rude. This indicates that because you met only 100 then all must be rude. I countered by stating that I have met more rude religious people who were rude than you met rude atheists. I didn’t ask a question there. I simply made a counter-statement to help highlight that rude people are going to be rude regardless whether they are religious or atheists. It’s fair to say that this can be argued as one and the same thing. It’s a matter of perspective. It’s in your perspective that George W. Bush has benefited in creating an illegal war in the name of faith. And yet I can say that it is because of his faith that he has decided to go to war with “god on his shoulders” to avenge the 9/11 episode. Semantics. There is no proof why god exists. There is only conjecture and radical claims. Seeing as you keep ignoring the point I’ll simple repeat what I have said before. Atheism is not built on an ideal. Politics and religions both are. An atheist is someone who exists but is without religion. Atheism isn’t valid as a doctrine of belief. It is valid as a state of mind that involves thinking outside the religious box. It’s called being rational. And being rational is not something that can come “crashing down”. It can only be blindsided by doctrine. Religions, on the other hand, can come crashing down as you have noticed as well with many cultures forgetting about their religions (the Greeks being just one example) for others.
I'm sorry but this thread is starting to get out of hand and its becoming more an argument than a discussion. In the interests of the forums i'm forced to close it... I'm sorry to all those having a genuine and mature discussion.
After Much debate this thread has been re-opened. But we will be monitoring it closely. Any flaming and we will be issueing warnings to flame posts.
Well, we'll see. Personally I'd rather offending members be issued a warning than an entire thread closed. Just keep it civil.
I have quite a few things to say about religion, most of them should be ignored, so I'm going to put them as spoilers... First, a little info: I was "raised" (I use the word lightly) as a Presbyterian, though I was more agnostic. Now my mom (who used to not go to church until I was about... six lets say) now is like a thirsty man just out of the desert, only spiritually. She decided her old church wasn't good enough, (she was the only one who went by then anyway) and goes to a church in a different county, because it's "better" and that church is non-nondenominational or something (they have a band, and songs in hebrew). now, the points. 1. I believe that people should walk their own spiritual path, not follow the one their parents or peers chose, but that they should still walk a spiritual path. (Believe in something bigger than yourself, even if it's that things will work out or something. It doesn't have to be God or a nice flashy eschatologic occurence in the near future) everything else can be skipped really, though it might make for an enlightaining read. Spoiler 2. I don't believe in Christianity, though it is what I most identify with. Many of the reasons I don't like Christianity follow (this is where "find your own path" comes in, none of this stuff has to matter to you, just me.) a) there are many contradictions in the bible. All of them. This is because it was not written by divine hands, but mortal hands. The Rabbis even had a tradition where they wrote parts of the bible in that they thought where hidden in other parts. whole chapters where written when only a name was mentioned. b) Many of the parts of the bible were removed: Daniel and the Dragon; The Book of Judas (where Jesus asked him to betray him); The Book of Mary, and others. c) if possible, I'm putting this in a double spoiler: Spoiler God as portrayed in the Bible is not the kind of person worthy of my worship. He's said to be Perfect, and yet admits that he's vain (that's a character flaw, thereby not perfection). He asked a man to kill his son as a test of faith. If I had written the bible it would have ended with Abraham telling God to screw himself, the reasoning being that the life of another human is more important than the whim of a deity. He also allows he devil to kill Job's family and friends and crops and animals, all to test his faith. And then Job blasphemes, but of course, God is good, so despite all reasoning he repents, even wen faced with the fact that God went far beyond the usual "testing your faith" through hardship thing when the Devil was all "Hey, can I kill Job's wife and kids?" and God was all <thumbs up>. I mean, whenever faced with hardships in our life, many people will turn to God: "it's all part of His plan; He's testing your faith". Me? I prefer the phrase: "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger". whereas that's a little harsh at face value, and in some cases just not true (Paralysis for instance, though it could be argued it makes you spiritually stronger) it's more likely (to me) that it's a way of being tempered like steel and not being tested for impurities. d) I will admit though, that there are many wonderful points in the Bible: An eye for an eye makes the world go blind; inspirational stories such as David and Goliath (of course, that was his faith in God, not in himself... <Sigh>); there's the over all theme most religions have of "don't be a **** up"; There's the story where Jacob beats an Angel (God, perhaps, he was named Peniel(face of God) by Jacob, and he said "I have seen the face of God and lived") in wrasslin' (until the angel cheats) and afterwards Jacob was given the new name Israel (one who has struggled with God) e) Christianity has the Devil as the source of all evil, and yet he's also the warden of the prison (or at least, that's how we depict him in popular culture, always whipping some poor fool). I mean, he's like a warden who wants you to rob a bank... f) what if the references to Lucifer and the References to Jehova were switched? What if everyone is worshiping the Devil and doesn't realize it? (okay, that one's silly, but still, think about it.) g) Women are useless according to the bible... and Lot's children had sex with him after Gammorha. Also, the bible seems to hate gays, and masturbation. And I'm okay with both. Spoiler especially lesbian mud wrassilin' And yet those passages are vague and could be interpreted differently... Like meaning if your brother dies you have to **** his childless wife, or God will hate you. 3. The Biggest thing I have to hate about Christianity, (besides Chick Publications, but I'm gonna get to that next) is that it's eschatological salvation is based on nothing more than belief. All who are true of heart and pure of deed are sent into the fiery pit so long as they don't accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. To me that's Spoiler bollocks. Hard. Salty. Bollocks. What about the people who have done nothing wrong in their lives? Just because they don't like the idea of Jesus they go to Hell? That's not fair, or just, or right. 4.Now, Chick Publications. I hate these people so much, and yet I enjoy reading their misguided tripe so much... it's like Snakes on a Plane it's so horrible that I have to see it. But I'm still going to complain about such a horrible decision. Forever. My dislike of Chick most likely comes from its deep fundamentalist ideals that I don't agree with (Hell for non-believers instead of for Sinners for instance). But it probably has to do with such inane "facts" such as: Halloween is the Devil's Birthday. Maybe it's because I was born on Halloween that I don't like them. I mean, Lucifer (Satan means Adversary, I don't see him so much as that, but as a kid who wasn't daddy's favorite (Paradise Lost) so I prefer his name) is an angel, a minor deity. Deities Don't have birthdays! Also, some of the Chick Tracts are incredibly racists. I mean, I may be white, but I feel for the other people. plus, every one of the tracts I've read is laughable, especially the one where the murdering child molester (okay, it was just a cowboy outlaw) goes to Heaven because he repented in the electric chair, but the good sheriff who did so much for the town went to Hell. Of course, he was kind of an ass hole. All atheists are assholes it would seem from the tracts. Cogito: a long while back you said you were an atheist, but you're not an asshole are you? I hate Jack Chick as much as Jack Thompson... 5. I've lost my train of thought... my point is, don't go into religion thinking every other religion is wrong, because they might just think that same way about you (I remember my mom telling me about how her Jewish friend wouldn't be going to heaven for not believing in Jesus...) don't go into religion and expect God to help you whenever you pray. Don't go into a religion and firmly believe in it when you don't understand it, just because your parents did. And please, don't push your beliefs on other unless you want theirs pushed on you. Now, for my personal beliefs... I'm wondering whether I should spoiler this... nah. 6. I believe that there is no "God" and that what people believe is God, is the Universe itself, and that it's a conscious creature. If you wanna see the Face of God, go take a trip to Alaska, or Niagra Falls, or Olympus Mons (might have to wait for that one). I don't believe in Divine intervention. It may have happened in the past, but no matter how much you pray there wont be anything big in this life time <cue parted waters and plagues of frogs to prove me wrong (that is the kind of divine intervention I believe in: Cosmic Irony)>. I feel that Praying to God won't help. Praying in general may indeed help, but because of the person praying, or the prayed for (pretty much like psychic power, or psychosomatism). Not because of God. That kind of ties back to me comment about Abraham: I believe in people. We may kill each other for the dumbest reasons and we may be greeded sonsabitched, but if there's one thing I believe it's that humanity has more potential than a deity. What made Hercules so strong? not that he was divine, but that he was Human. (pretty sure the divinity might have helped, but mostly the human thing) Maybe I've played to many Japanese Role playing games and Age of Mythology, but I think if God came down from Heaven with a host of ten thousand thousand angels that a group of four heroes with swords could kill him because they were pure of heart and courageous. And yes, I realize how retarded that sounds, it's hyperbole. But mostly true. All Divinities are nothing without Mankind. And mankind has struggled against the universe for the whole of history. I also feel that in pictures or portrayals of God, (in other words the personification of the universe) it should be as a woman. Men don't make babies. (this next comment is blasphemy, don't read it unless you don't care (Damn heretics!)) Spoiler that would make God and Mary lesbians, yes. Now, I believe in a sort of "spiritual science", that God, being the universe, works through the ways of the universe. But I still believe in some scientifically silly things, like magic. I mean, none of that wicca or Satanist chanting spells crap, but the kind of magic that fills religious texts: Rings that control demons (Lesser Key of Solomon, Solomon was given a ring by Gabriel(?) that allowed him to subjugate demons, which he used to build Jeruselum), staffs that turn to snakes (that was Aaron's, by the way, not Moses's), parting of the sea (by Moses, not God. Perhaps God telling Moses it was God of course, he seems to do that a lot, being vain), but I don't think many of use have the will to do it, whereas the people who live in monasteries and temples and the Tibetan mountains can levitate and get punched in the balls and light themselves on fire and not run around screaming in pain. But then again, we don't need Magic because we don't believe in it (kind of like most people with Religion, ne?) and we have technology. Now I've either forgotten anything else I was gonna say (it took three hours to write this and do my mediocre research I always do so I don't look like a complete idiot (only a partial one)) so I'm gonna post it now. If anything contradicts itself or is not clear, it's because a Wizard did it.huh... that was supposed to be resized all tiny... I also feel I should remind anyone who actually read that what I said in the first part of point 2. Follow your own path, that long rant was my thoughts, take them with a grain of salt. make your own way, other New age crap, peace. I mean, half of that is just stuff that makes sense to me from video games and books. I mean, the concept of the (previous) universe's combined consciousness came from a book by Greg Isles (Footprints of God, pretty good book about a man who starts dreaming that he's Jesus (and not just the Lazarus raising, sick curing Jesus, the little baby carpenter Jesus. It turns out that his super top secret company's plan to make a super computer with real intelligence is the first step on the road to becoming God, but that his employer really just wants to become immortal because he's old and frail. Long story short, Old man becomes computer, computer is reasoned with, computer deletes itself, main character and Designated Love Interest get their brains downloaded and merged, man and woman and technology become one. Then the whole world becomes one, then the galaxy, universe, and then everything goes boom, but "God" (the consciousness of everything) is able to push itself out of the universe and sits alone as the next universe is made. Sees people suffering, wishes to help people, a little bit of "God" is pushed back into the universe, virgin birth, spread peace, nailed to cross, years pass, super computer built, rinse, repeat.) And yes, in many, many Japanese Rpgs the heroes kill God, a God, or Gods. And in many American RPGs as well...
