The following is a GingerCoffee rant. It's my opinion and my view of the world and I don't claim it is any more than that. Preaching to the choir here. Sorry, it's just not a nitpick I find useful. I've already said, most people are the same around the world, they are good normal people when you meet them no matter what you've heard about their hating Americans. But the ones that want to kill people as a tactic of war, it doesn't matter what their reason is, it's ignorant and unacceptable. If the idiots only knew there are much more effective ways, we could get somewhere. But they've come to believe mass casualties are the only way to get anywhere. I can see how they came to believe this. But I don't believe they are right. I believe there are better ways they could achieve their goals. And worse, they increase the power of the military industrial complex. The extremists serve as the focus to keep the public occupied so we don't pay attention to the lack of oversight of a fertilizer plant that explodes and destroys houses and countless lives. They serve as a focus to pass such extreme suppression of our rights as you see with the USAPATRIOT act. That is the full acronym, by the way. Can you imagine how long it took the committee to come up with that name? (Uniting (and) Strengthening America (by) Providing Appropriate Tools Required (to) Intercept (and) Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001.) This is a fantasy narrative. Yes, it is true, the things you describe are points of contention and definitely US military actions suck and blowback is a real thing. We ourselves have made things worse, not better. And don't get me started on the mistakes Israel has made and the mistakes we've made supporting them. All you have to see is a map of the region pre-1947 and you'll see just how extensive the area was populated before the people were expelled and their land stolen. But even if we hadn't taken the military actions described, the radical extremists would have still emerged. We would still be a target simply because we buy the oil. There would still be a clash of cultures and I fear there simply is no way to bring this third of the world into modernity easily. If you add economic disparity to the mix, you can expect the outcome we have. The solution would have been economic. It didn't happen. It won't happen. In addition to the problem of incompatible culture clash you have an increasingly skewed distribution of wealth. Toss in the military industrial complex and the political influence of big corporate wealth and you have the ingredients of multiple extremists' movements. There is some hope in that with the Arab Spring, maybe they'll bring themselves into the 21st century. I hope so.
True, but not to the current extreme. Middle Eastern extremists have targeted other nations too, and far more heavily in the past than the US, until the late 90s when the US became a more prominent target. France was a major Muslim enemy for a while, especially in the 60s and 70s. But the rest of your post pretty much states your main agreement. Greed is at the core. The wanting what others have by those that don't have, and the keeping of what they have by those that have it.
Except that the current evidence points to radical Islam in the case of the older brother. The evidence has pointed in that direction since the very beginning. The leader of the brothers was Tamerlan Tsarnaev. Here are the facts so far, understand that these can be disregarded singularly, but together paint a picture. The target was random people, not a building or event or government. When he was killed, he was wearing a suicide vest. (The four prototypes for suicide bombers are Religious, National, Avenger and Exploited.) The main prototype that would apply would be religious. He traveled back to Russia in 2011 for six months, and began planning the Marathon bombings when he returned. He was a devout Muslim. A YouTube account run by Tamerlan includes a playlist devoted to "terrorism", including one video in English entitled "The Emergence of Prophecy: The Black Flags from Khorasan". He also maintained a playlist devoted to Islam. The FBI said it interviewed Tamerlan in 2011 at the request of a foreign government - identified by a law enforcement source as Russia - after that country raised concerns that he had ties to radical Islamic groups. In 2001, his family moved to Dagestan, a southern Russian province that lies at the heart of a violent Islamist insurgency and where his parents now live. Ruslan Tsarni, the uncle of Tamerlan said, "He (Tamerlan) said there is someone who brainwashed him, some new convert to Islam,’’ Tsarni said. “I would like to stress (the acquaintance was) of Armenian descent.’’ We will have more evidence once the younger brother gives the true motive, but as of right now, this is where the evidence points. Again, let me stress, I'm not saying that this is a certainty, I am just laying out the profile that has been determined for the older brother.
Yes, but there is a difference between a 'could be' that is supported by existing evidence, and a 'could be' that has no current evidence to support it. I would go with you if we had some evidence to prove that these two men were just idiots who got bad grades in Algebra or something. We have to follow the trail of evidence. So far there is no evidence that these two men were idiots or that they had any apparent 'retaliation' motive.
They certainly didn't do a very good job of getting away. If you can't leave the country or the state, at least be smart enough to leave the city and the surrounding neighborhoods.
Ginge...when you say, "I have no doubt these guys believe they are defending themselves and their god." you do know that Jew, Christian, Muslim...all have the same God right...? They are all "Children of Abraham." They are all "People of the Book."
Isn't it more important for the 'terrorist' to know this than Ginge (which I am sure Ginge does). Just because that's the case doesn't mean the extremists believe or understand it.
Islam calls Christians and Jews "People of the Book." "The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Bible] and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures." Quran 98:6, "The Proof," "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous." Quran 9:123, "Repentance," "When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them." Quran 9:5; "Repentance," "I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." Quran 8:12, "The Spoils," Islam has been a religion on the warpath from the very beginning. Just as the Christian rhetoric against Jews helped anti-Semitism, so does the rhetoric of the Qu'ran encourage Jihad. It is not bigotry to suspect a German during WW2 of anti-Semitism when you see them wearing Nazi uniforms. Look up the televised speeches in Iran about the US and Israel.
The Marathon is an international event. There were more than just Americans there in the race and at the finish line.
FBI hunting 12-strong terrorist “sleeper cell” linked to brothers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Now it appears these two men were linked to a larger terrorist cell hiding in Boston.
Cogito, I linked to a reputable news site, and used the word 'appears'. Here, let me help you, since you seem to lack reading comprehension: I believe it was you who said this is a writing forum, and we should be accountable for our writing, and I think that goes for comprehension as well. We are having a discussion related to facts as they come in AND as they change. If you don't wish to discuss it, feel free to leave.
JJ, Your idea of a reputable source and mine are not quite the same. Even if one accepts that the newspaper itself is fine, "a source close to the investigation" is hardly a reliable attribution. I read quite well for comprehension, thank you, and I also know how t read critically. Thus my comment. All you are doing is propagating a rumor. That is consistent with much of your activity in this thread, which in m opinion has been irresponsible and inflammatory.
It is you being inflammatory, not me. This entire thread has been about discussing the news as it trickles in, and has also been discussing items that have turned out to be false. And yet, you scold me individually, not to discuss a news story. Someone is inflaming other members, and it wasn't me. You had ZERO reason to tell me not to discuss breaking news, except to inflame me. Even your last post is inflammatory with insults and accusations. It's ridiculous. Either discuss it, or don't. Don't tell me not to talk about it.
Daily Mirror - a reputable news site? This is one of the UK's tabloid "news" papers that have been indited and the editor, along with many top name "journalists" being arrested for phone hacking... I think the National Enquirer has less sensationalist stories
It was YOU who accused ME of being unable to read with comprehension. But I suppose that was not ad hominem. However, you're right about one thing JJ. It's a waste of my time to try ti discuss this with you.
Yep, it's not good. I would also have thought that the for most accurate and up to date facts - facts not speculation - it would have been better to have listened to US news channels and read US papers. Not that you can depend on them for the unbiased truth any more than you can depend on any other source of information. The most devastating and long-lasting aspect of a terrorist attack (we've had our share over the years) is the fear it engenders in the population. The depth of fear in Boston was clear to see from the relief, the sheer joy, when the second suspect was captured. In that climate it's easy to believe anything you see, hear or read that just happens to agree with your opinion. History tells us that it takes time for the real truth to emerge. Final judgement surely has to wait for that time.
There are other organizations reporting this. It may turn out to be false, but it's worth discussing.
What's interesting at this point is the Mirror's report is only being echoed in the right wing blogosphere. I don't see it anywhere else yet, except it's probably also getting lots of activity in Twitterville. CNN is reporting the older brother's YouTube account had a link to a video made by a "well known jihadist", and the person on the video had close connections (geographically) to where the brothers lived in Chechnya. Doesn't mean a whole lot at this point. It'll be a while before we know if the brother was influenced but acting on his own, or influenced and acting with others.
Russia Today (rt.com) is a right wing, pro Putin, news agency. We are led to believe Putin's govt gave the FBI the nod in relation to these brothers. So rt.com would tow the party line and go with Putin's story. Both putin's agencies and the Feds have been to Dagestan to question the parents, family and friends on more than one occassion. So we can take it that the Russians and Feds are on the same side against Chechnyan rebels / extremists so we can probably believe RT. http://rt.com/usa/tsarnaev-brothers-parents-innocent-124/ RT also says neither the Chechnyan rebels nor any other extremists in that area where active on US soil, that these brothers were not on their payroll. The younger guy went to all his classes and even went to a party Wednesday night with his school soccer buddies - no one noticed anything out of place. Younger brother's dorm sharing buddy http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-partied-gym-days-bombing-article-1.1322828 Is he the coolest under pressure guy in the world?
