The Chinese Olympics and Culling

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by ILTBY, Dec 15, 2007.

  1. PrincessGarnet

    PrincessGarnet New Member

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    I thought many countries chose to ignore it because they they make a lot of money from China, and it's not in a weak position so you can't threaten it with anything that wouldn't hurt the host country more than China. Plus, it's a permanent member on the UN security council and so can veto any important decision.

    There are great disparities in wealth in many third world countries, it doesn't mean there are necessarily going to be riots. I think the biggest threat to an authoritarian dictatorship is not the poor uprising, but the emergence of a middle class, which i believe China has? The middle class has no connection to the elites of the government, or have a stake in the present government, but are educated and know of the different political systems etc - i think most revolutions are led by members of the middle class
     
  2. lessa

    lessa New Member

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    Don't know too much about China but I read that China has the highest rate of rabies in the world.
    Good thing they are getting rid of the dogs.
    I never really was interested in the politics or the living conditions until Dom started saying he wanted to go there.
    Now I am finding out more about the country and the people.
    If a country was run by the common people maybe there wouldn't be so many wars and strife since most people are the same all over the world.
     
  3. Myst

    Myst Active Member

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    Could you maybe further elaborate on this? What other reasons do you have?

    Why does that scare you?


    I wish I had enough knowledge to hold a more informed stand in this discussion. Granted that is not what I have, but regardless, I have so far been sensing a somewhat anti-chinese or even anti-asia vibe here. I do not see how you can generalize and say that their morals and beliefs are inferior. Yes, there is cruelty and inhumanity in China- there is everywhere, to some degree; but at the same time there are also Chinese who oppose these sorts of misguided ideals. Like PrincessGarnet has said the actions of the government do not completely reflect the thoughts or feelings of the people.

    Although the West hold the idea of consuming dog meat as offensive, it is in essence not truly such. Due to the canine becoming a popular domestic animal and thus man's "friend", people think of it as inhumane to eat them. However, in places like Korea and China dog meat has been being eaten for a while now. I'm not 100% sure but I think that dog meat is farmed. (By logic it would be) Different places have different standards of what is normal and what is not. Just a side-note.

    As I see it China is a very big place, of which they are many areas of greatly varying wealth and urbanization. It is one of the oldest and most culturally rich civilizations in the world, and one that has/ could have/could have had much potential. In modern times it has been internally and externally pressured and affected by commercialism and the flow of wealth. There is definetely corruption and inhumanity in China, but also many who are wishing for and ready to see change.

    I can't really back up my comments on solid walls. They are after all, just thoughts. But ultimately, I don't think one can just shrug off the morals of a country as in "a totally different league" from their own.
     
  4. Bluemouth

    Bluemouth Contributor Contributor

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    By Asia I am encompassing China, Mongolia, Japan, Korea.

    I don't like the culture, traditions, people, lifestyle, morals, governments, and natural environments.



    Quite simple really. I am happy living here in Australia with our culture, however, over the last twenty to fifty years there has been an explosion in migration numbers from the Asian countries coming over here. Now, in Sydney and Melbourne you can't walk a couple of metres without finding a person of Asian heritage. They are simply taking over the major cities, stealing our jobs, and forcing some of their cultural beliefs onto us. I don't like it.

    I will freely admit that I'm a mega-racist towards many Asian countries. Having people tell me it's wrong to have a prejudiced opinion or generalisation on a culture only makes me laugh. I'll hold my own judgments. I don't ask people to agree with me.
     
  5. Myst

    Myst Active Member

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    Fine enough.
     
  6. Domoviye

    Domoviye New Member

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    I agree for the most part. Right now the biggest force for change is the middle class. They're growing, getting money, and due to both are gaining influence. For the next several years they'll be the cause of change.
    But the rural people are getting unhappy. They have to get special permits to live in the cities where the money is, and most of them can't get it. So there are several million people in each city who are illegals. They have no status, no rights, and no money, in their own country. They are the people who clean up the streets, provide food for the lower class, clean houses, and do all the jobs the middle class doesn't want to touch. And there are a lot of them.
    Right now they have the hope of improving their situation. Even picking through garbage for salvagables in Shanghai beats farming by hand. But if they see the city people getting everything, while the hundreds of million rural people continue getting scraps, they could have a problem. It will take several years, but don't dismiss it out of hand.
    And if the economy turns sour, the peasants will lose what little they have, the middle class will begin losing members, and then all bets are off. As of now everyone is seeing the piles of money being thrown to China and the unprecedented growth of China's cities and middle class. Thats keeping everyone satisfied, or striving for the better future. As long as they keep seeing a better life, they'll play by the governments rules. The moment they see the golden ring snatched out of reach, they'll get very, very angry.
    If a trade war erupts between China and the US, I'm running.
     
  7. ILTBY

    ILTBY Contributor Contributor

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    Dom, what do you think of the One Child Policy? And what's it like living in a Communist society?
     
  8. Domoviye

    Domoviye New Member

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    I think the policy was a necessary evil. Although some of the things I've heard like forced abortions, make me want to overthrow the system. Making people pay more taxes for each child, encouraging but not forcing abortion, giving incentives to people to not have more children is all good. China has over 1 billion citizens, they can't afford to keep increasing at the rate they were.
    As for living in a communist society. Considering what I do and who I interact with its not really different. I avoid the government whenever possible, I do my job, see my friends, plan on seeing some of the sights now that I have cash, and enjoy myself.
    The biggest thing has been remembering that there are somethings that my students and friends just don't understand. When I talk about democracy all they think about is the US which is different from Canadian democracy, and the democracy in Continental Europe. I also have to be careful about certain things. I've heard that if certain topics are mentioned in cabs, the driver will pull over and demand you leave immediately.
    And seeing the occasional well armoured and armed soldiers or police jogging down the street or standing guard at a bank in the equivalent of riot gear, is surprising.
    Seeing the way the laws are ignored is bad as well. Child porn is sold fairly openly on the street. Looking through black market movies on card table you will sometimes see a nearly naked kid on a dvd cover right in the middle of the stack. And fourteen year old girls working in brothels that front as barbershops is bad. The laws the government consider really important are upheld with an iron fist. The less important ones slip under the radar for a few yuan.
    I know the same thing happens all over, but they could at least try to hide it a little more.
     
  9. ILTBY

    ILTBY Contributor Contributor

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    Sorry Dom, I thought I'd responded to this.

    I hadn't heard of the forced abortions, but I agree with the one child policy for the most part. The punishments are pretty fair and it is an effective solution.

    It sounds nuts living there, it would be like living in another world. Its amazing that such an influential and powerful country has so much difficulty making social and political progress.
     
  10. pet.

    pet. New Member

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    You can't 'steal' a job. Under capitalism, employment is mutual greed; the employer picks the employee who will make them the most money and vice versa. Saying someone 'stole' a job just means that they were a better candidate and are making the worse candidates jealous. Deal with it.

    Equally, You can't 'force' a culture on someone.

    'Taking over the major cities' makes no sense at all.

    Racism is the most blatant expression of arrogant ignorance I can think of.
     
  11. PrincessGarnet

    PrincessGarnet New Member

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    i would argue the opposite that because its an influencial and powerful country it is able to fend off actors who want to see change, and of course those in power who could implement change and develop the country don't want to do it, as they benefit from the status quo.
     
  12. PrincessGarnet

    PrincessGarnet New Member

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    oh another thing mentioned on this thread, about third world stealing the jobs of those in the first world - i find it interesting that the anger is directed towards those workers and not the multinational companies who were in control of the decision.
     
  13. missupernatural

    missupernatural New Member

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    Question: Why are we generalising to Asia?

    I visited Japan in April, and it was so nice! And yes, that includes the people.
     
  14. ILTBY

    ILTBY Contributor Contributor

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    You bring up a good point, the majority of its leaders have wanted to keep its traditionalist society and have succeeded. It has managed to maintain its policies and beliefs for thousands of years despite the amount of people who have tried to influence/control it.

    In western terms it is behind the times, but looking at it from a different point of view you can see the amount of power they hold.

    However, I guess there are actually quite a few societies in the world that have never been influenced by other cultures, even over thousands of years.

    Progression is only positive according to some cultures, I guess how you feel all depends on your cultural perspective.
     
  15. Bluemouth

    Bluemouth Contributor Contributor

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    Some of the recent comments are understandably in response to a stupid comment a made a week or so ago. Having just watched the 'Long Way Round' it's certainly changed my opinions on many of the parts of Asia, in terms of the people and the culture. Mongolia looks like an amazing place, as does Kazakhstan.

    I know many people who have travelled to Japan, and they all loved it. Heck, I may go there one day and love it.

    I understand why multiculturalism is promoted across my country, but to the extent of overseas workers taking the jobs of native Australians does bother me slightly. I think there is a point where too much of one culture starts to become forced upon the society. The Chinese culture is obviously a major contributor.

    Don't be ridiculous. Some of the overseas workers don't even speak english. They're hired because they are, in some instances, cheaper.
     
  16. Domoviye

    Domoviye New Member

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    There are very credible reports that women have been forced to have abortions. Mostly poorer women in places were few foreigner tourists go.
    It is different living here, but its not nuts. I keep my nose clean, and don't do anything stupid, so I haven't seen the bad side of it.
    And I don't plan on seeing it. At least not first hand.

    Now for the other comments. Chinese culture has changed a lot. The Cultural Revolution destroyed a lot of their old traditions, which are only now being truly revived.
    And they are modernizing and taking what they want of Western culture. They learned their lesson from the 1800's and a lot of the 1900's. Modernize and grow, or stay the same and stagnate.
    China didn't progress very far after reaching the pinnacle of civilization in the 1600's, and they suffered as the other nations caught up and surpassed them. So now that China has money they are progressing as fast as humanly possible. Maybe faster, which could cause problems for them as well.
     

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