The collected musings of Ryan Elder

Okay thanks. At this point in the story though, he does not have a personal grudge as of yet. He is just an average joe, with no quarrels trying to survive. I can write it so that the readers will say why didn't the character call the police, I just don't have a why as of yet.

As far as having the hero accidentally kill a cop, I cannot have a dead body turn up for the police otherwise it will send the plot in directions that will not be good. So if I can write this scenario with no dead bodies, that would be preferable, if possible...

 

I was told before on a story by readers that they felt that certain plot twists and turns were implausible. Personally I am use to that happening in a story, and I can often see implausibilities in stories. Not that that's necessarily bad for me. A lot of times I do not mind characters behaving implausibly, as long as they are not behaving impossibly.

I rewrote a whole new story outline, where the characters behave much more plausibly I think, but I feel it builds towards an anticlimax as a result. Since everyone behaves in the most plausible way possible, I feel that nothing crazy or shocking really happens. It feels too predictable, because the more plausible a person behaves, the more predictable it can be, and everyone has to stay in their own boxes and not be able to come out and take the story in climatic directions because of it.

I also feel that since it's a thriller, most thrillers as they build more and more towards the end, the pacing becomes faster and faster traditionally, because the steaks are raised and the race against time is running out and closing in.

But when I wrote my new outline so that everyone behaves much more plausibly, the pacing actually slows down, because since it gets more complicated, it actually takes longer for characters to resolve their problems and it kind of slows down, instead of building faster, as traditionally thrillers do.

What do you think? Should I go against my instincts, and write the story with an outline where characters behave the most plausibly, even if it builds towards an anticlimax? If plausibility is more important to the reader than I can, but will a lot of people still find an anticlimax disappointing for thriller genre expectations?

 

A very interesting question/topic. You'll likely get a balance of answers arguing for each side with equal points for each.

I'm a deep-reader and prefer deep characters with lots of story surrounding them, so , to me, this would be a breakout novel in that aspect, and I like it!!!

If your followers aren't used to this type of writing from you . . . then re-think it. Give the audience what they want????

Personally, I think it's a great thing for the genre ----> Give those characters a history and make it PLAUSIBLE.

So, my vote it for plausible with the anti-climax.

 

I'm big on plausibility. I can't watch Michael Bay or Jerry Bruckheimer movies for this reason. When I wrote my thriller novel I took great pains to make my characters actions believable. I frequently asked myself how I would react in their situation. I also told this particular story from multiple points of view, which made it more challenging but also allowed for more variety. The most important thing I did to make it believable but interesting was to allow my characters to make mistakes. Some were little; others were colossal blunders. The mistakes also had to be plausible but not readily apparent. My MC was not a superhero, CIA operative or anything like that so the things she did wrong were easily explained away by her lack of experience.

Example: near the end she is chased in an old pickup truck by a gangster driving a newer SUV. While she has learned to be a good driver she is not used to the loose steering and lazy responses of the truck shes driving. This ultimately causes her to lose control and crash, leading up to the climactic confrontation with her pursuer. She is able to kill him because he makes a blunder. His is much smaller, but all she needed was a tiny opportunity...and was able to grab it.

My character then learns from her mistakes and does not make (most) of the same ones again in the second book. She evolves over the course of my stories but she is never perfect. Hope this helps.

 

It helps a bit. But I was told that my character's mistakes are part of the problem and some of their mistakes make them look stupid to the reader, and they wouldn't make such mistakes.

 

I think a "thriller" to be called such, must be... thrilling. Otherwise it's probably something else.

 

What kind of mistakes are we talking about?

 

I've read a few novels that claimed to be thrillers, with the requisite build up of tension and suspense, but the endings were somewhat anticlimactic, and I felt very cheated.

I guess it all comes down to whether you write for yourself or you write for your readers.

 

What is wrong with using rape? It is possibly one of the most vile ways of violating both a beings mind as well as body. Therefor can be used to shape them into something else, based upon the mindset of the character. Though it was a short lived thing as far as an action for a secondary character of mine, as she battered the assailant to death with the equivalent of brass knuckles. More aptly put, the guy did not have much of the front of his head left, but it made her into a feral animal for a short period of time as a result of the situation.

So I say use whatever horrible thing you see fit. Hell I have at one point put in a torture style interrogation scene, to highlight another characters ability to perform such unspeakable acts on another being. Though to be fair that is one of her attributes to be sadistic to get some one to spill the beans.

 

Indeed. You can have a courtroom drama outside of the thriller genre--just look at Snow Falling on Cedars. Surely you can have stories about crime or police activity as well. The difference is in the writing. I think the question really is, who is your target audience? If you're writing for the thriller market, you do have a more restricted ability to write what you want, since the market has specific expectations. If you're writing for a more "general" audience, then maybe you're more in the literary or general fiction space. That gives a lot more freedom.

My two pennies.

 

I think it’s a perfectly acceptable plot device. Having first hand knowledge of that experience I think it’s quite a potent motivator. You get all of the same backlash experiences that you do with many rape situations. The crippling depression, the boiling anger inside of you, the pain of looking yourself in the mirror, remembering what was done to you. It’s one of the most horrific experiences’ I’ve had in my life and I’ve spent my due time in the military on top of that. There’s a reason most rape victims suffer from severe PTSD.

I can empathize with the MC in their lust for revenge, it’s a pretty common feeling. You want to make them hurt, you want to somehow take back your life and erase them so you can get on with what you have left.

If I’m reading it correctly it’s also a male to male rape, which in north America is an issue that is often glossed over and sometimes outright ignored. I think this can add depth to your character. It’s “a social norm” for a woman to be raped by a man, but the moment you turn that on its head and make it male on male the whole situation seems to change.

You may make some reader’s uncomfortable with it that’s certainly true. But it’s a horrible act and uncomfortable I think is the correct response. If we as writers didn’t write things that made people uncomfortable, I think we’d be in trouble indeed.

Carry on!

 

Not sure why a thread that contains the words "plot device" in the title and in the body of the question isn't posted in Plot Development. Moved.

 

I think that the issue 'might' be the use of rape period. Rape is and always will be a hot button topic and just as taboo to write about as incest...or more so. I think it has a lot to do with the way people were raised, their personal experiences and all that. To many people rape is..it seemed more real to them and close to home that well, it bothers them to read that. If you asked any group of people, even on this site, I bet you that you will find more people that know rape victims than people that know murder victims. AND, as you may have already seen, there are rape victims even on this form and well...no one here has been murdered...less we have ghost here. O.O? I think it's a troubling topic to some and they just don't want to read anything that might even seem a little like it is glorifying the act. It might surprise you, but there are people that think writing about rape is being over done also and well..you may let them read your story.

 

In certain cases it is true they do not need the victim's testimony. Sometimes its too hard for the victim to face their attacker, so it's very plausible for something to go off of a cop's testimony alone. Though for a kidnapping I'm not sure this is as true as for say an attack of some sort. In kidnapping cases they still may need the victim's story depending on the age. If it's a child they would probably not be brought up to the stand.

 

Oh okay, well in this story, the victim is probably around her 30s, for sure, so is it realistic that they feel they could win the case, without her testimony entirely, and just rely on the cop saying what he saw?

 

Okay thanks. I think my story is more geared to the thriller audience, but it slowly builds towards an anticlimax. I mean I was told before that I need to make my characters more logical. But the most logical person would not make a decision that would cause themselves to be painted into a climax. So how can you have 'thrills', when the most logical person would make the smartest decisions, and eliminate any trouble, and therefore not so much of a climax, as a result? How do you write a character to be 'plausibly risky', as oppose to risky to the point of unbelievably stupid, to the reader?

 

You need to come up with better obstacles. Not ones that any smart person can easily eliminate. Give the characters a real challenge.

 

The fact that she's older I want to say no. She would probably have to testify because of the age thing.

 

I'm not too clued up when it comes to law, although I did look this up a little as I found it interesting. The victim of a kidnapping in Vancouver, Canada refused to testify in court in 2013, leading to the case being adjourned. Perhaps more relevant may be a news article that I found on the Cleveland kidnapping case, reported around the time of the trial. It states that if the charges are contested by the kidnapper that the victims would all be required to testify, no matter how difficult that may be. Hope this helps a little.

 

So what you could do is use 'fake' cases in story to help support the fact that without the victims' story the case is dropped. There's always exceptions so you can always just make a few up to go along with the story. That way it wipes away any possibility of a plot hole. Or even have some character in the story state just what you stated above. Plot hole gone!

 

Okay thanks. I thought that if I explained it, I would be insulting the reader's intelligence, but I can do it if necessary .

 

Okay thanks. One thing is, is that I wanted the main character to work alone in getting the villain and not calling the police. The villain is not a cop, and is just a serial killer type though. Do you think that is a problem? Perhaps the obstacle is not big enough, and I need to make the majority of the police force bad maybe, for an MC to not call them or something?

 

Did the kidnapping actually happen, or did the cop stop it before she was actually taken? If she wasn't officially kidnapped, and she won't testify, the perpetrator could easily say she was having a medical problem and he was trying to get her to the hospital or some other story. The cop would need more evidence--a medical exam afterwards that showed traces of chemicals on her, or any bruises or signs that she was trying to get away, or bystander testimonies, etc. (This is coming from my boyfriend, who is a lawyer.)

 

She was currently tied up with a hood put over her head, when the cop finds her. But I have work out how the cop finds her while on patrol too, by accident, so these things are not official yet. The defendant chooses to keep silent and lets his lawyer do the talking, but would it be in the best interest for the lawyer to make up that it was a medical problem, in case the victim may change her mind later, or be compelled to testify of subpoenaed later?

Also the perp was wearing a mask and gloves at the time, and the cops would have those as evidence.

 

@Ryan Elder I think anyone aiming for a particular genre (such as this one, you shooting at the thriller category) should really go to school on the typically accepted conventions of that genre and then frame within those conventions. I'm NOT saying make it cookie cutter textbook-ish, and I'm NOT saying you can't fly with a completely original off the map MS that catches everybody off guard. Just saying I'd shoot at the sort of rudiments of that genre if I wanted to be received well.

A lot of 'real writers' would reject what I just said thinking they sully or lessen their purity by thinking commercially. But I only mentioned this because that seems to be what you are hoping for in the long run.

Also, I think in any genre a story that escalates is a more satisfying read for the average reader. Certainly this fits the thriller genre, I think.