The collected musings of Ryan Elder

That they can't do anything else. He's saying that this plot point works better if it feels like they really are desperate.

 

Yes, like accosting/threatening the woman while she goes about her day away from home and intimidating her on neutral turf (thereby not risking the breaking and entering charge and/or leaving evidence). Like you said though, things seem time critical so it'd be plausible for more chances to be taken.

 

Okay thanks. I could have it so that she is subpoenaed the day before the deposition. Since she was not being cooperative originally, I can write it so that she was avoiding the courts attempts to subpoena and they do not catch her till the last day before the deposition, cause on the last day, their attempts at subpoenaing her are much more aggressive. But would a deposition date be set, before the witness is subpoenaed?

Cause I would like to the gangs attempts to break in, be the first encounter with her after the kidnapping. Or I could write it so they do attempt to accost her while she goes about her day, and she tells them that she didn't say anything, but would they still attempt to break into her place to squeeze info out of her later, of what she told the police?

Could they maybe accost her, but not believe her, if she was subpoenaed?

 

The law where I reside is different; well not so much different but termed differently. We are asked to give a statement and if we do we can request a copy of it prior to any hearing. Our equivalent here to a subpoena is a witness summons but tbh, I'm not that up on this subject. You could maybe direct your villains to break into her property with the aim of obtaining any evidence of collusion with the law (looking for statement copies or any paperwork that proves any communication) that ought to be reason enough for them to then decide what they'd like to do with her.

 

Okay thanks. Breaking in to look for a statement is a good idea. Thanks.

Is the statement given at a hearing, where both lawyers on opposite sides of the case, cross examine the witness, to see if there is enough to go to trial? This is the deposition I am referring to, if that's what you mean.

I was thinking about what you said before, about how the gang might threaten her while she is on the street. If this happened, and she reported it, would the police put her in protection then, or would they still send her home, if she refuses to give a statement and cooperate? Would she still be home later, for the gang to break in, if they threatened her earlier that is.

 

Or she could set up a discovery with a witness, possibly a Police officer and act all scared and what not

 

The first Harry potter aside, the hero is better to accomplish in the climax. Maybe the GF could avenge him but he realizes that ultimately justice should provale and attempts and succeeds

 

What do you mean by set up discovery, in this case?

 

Okay thanks for the advice. Since my story is about a cop who wants revenge on the villain, how long do you think he needs to take before he is pushed to revenge? Like usually the police will only get revenge, when the villain gets away with it, but most of the time, cops are willing to wait years, even decades to solve a case, the legal way.

However, the longer he waits to try to solve the case, the legal way, and find a way to capture her, the more the opportunities for revenge dry up. Cause he wants to kill her and get away with it, but if he waits longer, the more further away she will get. So how long can he wait for revenge, where it is plausible that he will be pushed far enough, to believing that there is no chance of catching her legally?

 

I would think that violent revenge coming from someone in that situation would be done quickly. Most people don't wait years to attack someone who wronged them long ago. I could see someone in law enforcement waiting years to get justice legally. But for real people that Hollywood cathartic vigilante revenge decades later type of thing just doesn't happen.

 

Oh okay, I was told by a couple of others that he would wait years to see if the system would not fail him, before being pushed to revenge. Part of his revenge plan though, is to get other victims of the villain to join him and they form a vengeful mob. Do you think the rest of the mob members would need to wait years to see if the villain is brought down legally, or would they form quickly as well, as oppose to one person only?

 

I have an idea for a story that's a western, but there is a subplot where I thought I could tie some things together by using a time machine. But it would just be used in a subplot only, and not come back to again.

Well maybe it could, but so far in the plot I do not have a reason to bring it back. Would it come off as random or contrived, if I just had it for a subplot only?

 

I'm going to suddenly bring in time traveling at the end of my novel, but I also have 30 page duels and homicidal angels.

I'd say it all depends on your style/tone.

Generally I would advise not to do something like this though. If you have a perfectly normal Western story and suddenly have time machines, especially if it's mainly there to "tie some things together" (isn't that textbook deus ex machina?), don't do it.

If you're like, "But that doesn't cover it at all!!! You do not understand my genius!!!!!" Please do it. My thoughts anyway.

 

Okay thanks. Usually it's considered a deux ex machina if it's near the end though. If the time machine subplot is in the first act mostly, as well as the first half of the second, does that make it seem like less of a deux ex machina?

 

Well that all depends on where you are going with this whole time machine thing. It could muddy things up a bit, depending on how in-depth you main plot is. I too have pondered the use of a time machine for a side WIP, but my friend told me that it would muddy up the overall plot which is already over the top and complex.

I sad Cave Troll . Now I will never get to write about hardened criminals squaring off with raptors in a Gladiatorial like arena. But I digress.

So like I said, make sure it won't muddy up your main plot. Other than that I say go for it, and good luck.

 

Hmmm, I don't think that helps. At the end of the day it still sounds like you're shoehorning in something that doesn't sound like it goes very well with the rest of your story, just to get yourself out of a corner. You might be able to change the rest of your story to make it not feel out of place though. For example if you sprinkle your setting with other random science-fiction details ... Maybe people use ray guns for no reason, and maybe a character at some point overhears some people talking about how time machines have been ruled forbidden weapons after this or that event that ruined this or that town many years ago.

 

Okay thanks. Well I might make it more of the main plot then, or I will not use it at all. I will have to develop more of the plot first. Thanks for the input.

 

My story is a thriller where the police want to bust a gang, and it leads to a big shootout, in the gang's attempt to defend themselves and get away which leads to hostage situations that end in tragedy.

Now in my story, the police have to go to about a dozen different locations at least, to arrest members at each one, thus not giving the gang time to call ahead and warn the others.

But I am having trouble envisioning how I can cut back and forth constantly between a dozen different shootouts and make it good, without there being too much going on for the reader to possibly follow, as oppose to the entire shootout taking place at one location?

What do you think? Is there a way I can approach it where I can make it work better? I feel like the cutting back and forth can get in the away of the suspense, since I am constantly cutting away from each one, perhaps, and then you have to put them each on hold, till you come back to them all.

What do you think?

 

I can't really envision clearly what you mean so I might not get this right. I'll give it a shot though. I think of it like a game with levels. The last should be the most difficult. You follow your main character or characters. The other minor characters should be used as tools. Maybe he gets the briefing info he needs in order to strike down from his walkie-talkie or whatever.

Do you have a rough you can send? Even an outline would help in order to see how you connect the scenes or which scenes you are reffering to. You know: 1) This happens at this place and Mr. E does that. 2) Then he gets this info and chooses to do that. 3) Etc.

How many MC's do you have? In what narration do you write? How long do you suspect this theme is going to last? Is it going to be the end?

 

I wouldn't dramatize them all. Stick with the scene involving the main character. Thrillers quite often have multiple arrests or police actions going on at once, but the author doesn't dramatize them all.

 

This.

You don't see the Elves fight in The Two Towers(Book), they just talk about it after Helms Deep is secured. Show one or two police captures that have to do with a MC or a significant plot element, then let the rest be assumed. Maybe have a scene were they discuss all the bad guys they captured.

 

For my story, I am not sure how to end it, as I have several directions I could go. I am halfway finished and the rest depends upon what ending I decide to build into.

The story is about a serial rapist/killer type villain who goes around doing what she does, because she suffers from involuntary celibacy, and having to deal with it growing up and all her life, never becoming close to the opposite gender, causes her to take what she wants in order to feel power.

The protagonist is a cop investigating her, and the cop becomes her latest rape victim, but survives and escapes. The justice system fails to catch her for him, and he then wants justice himself. There are two ways he can get it. He can try the legal way, but cannot find any evidence legally, thus causing him to go vigilante on the villain, and either killing her, or framing her with illegal methods to take her down.

Or he can still play within the rules of the system and beat them at their own game, showing them he was better at getting evidence on her and catching her, than they were. Although because he was one of her victim's would this legally be a problem of a conflict of interest in the investigation though?

So he can either come out like Columbo, and arrest her with evidence, the smart, but legal way, or he can come out like Jack Bauer, and get total revenge. Of course these aren't really endings, but more like third acts. Each one would have their own different endings each.

Which direction to go do you think sounds better? Or should I combine the two and possibly have the cake and eat it too, or would that go against character motivation?

I know I haven't given a lot, but I am getting writer's block on this one and do not know where to go after the first half, in the MC's way of achieving his goal, that would be better for that type of story premise.

What do you think?

 

Just personally, I think the first one would be more satisfying in this instance. I often like it when the protagonist catches the antagonist by being better than the system at gathering evidence, but I don't feel like it would be as exciting here, and like you said, it almost seems like a conflict of interests. I would go with the first option, but I wouldn't have him kill her. That seems a little extreme - but then again, I don't know his character. Would he kill her if he had the chance?

Your character's motivations and personality are going to be a major deciding factor in this. Is your protagonist the type to take risks and go behind the system? Would he try to stay safe and arrest her with legal evidence, or has he been so traumatized that he would present false evidence just to get her in jail, or even kill her himself? What is your protagonist truly most likely to do? You don't want to force your characters to do things they wouldn't actually do.

Have you figured out what the rest of the plot would be if you took each route? If not, I highly suggest you should - if your character could plausibly make either decision, then looking at the projected plots may help you decide which one you'd want to end up writing more.

Hope this helps! Good luck with your writer's block, and happy writing!

 

Well I am writing a screenplay so I tend to use movies as examples. In movies like The Fugitive and The Negotiator, the heroes still stayed within the system as much as they could while catching the villains, but in the end relied on the courts to do the job, with the evidence they collected. But the climaxes of both still managed to be exciting and suspense packed.

With the revenge and how far the MC would go, it depends on how I write it as to how much the rape effected him. I have seen movies where the rape victim will go as far as killing out of revenge, and some where they want to plant evidence and frame, out of revenge, but no killing. So it all depends on how far the MC's victimization pushes him I guess.

 

I agree with @Lilith Addington, it depends on what you think the character would do and what the effects of that decision would have on the rest of the plot. It also depends on the feel. Having the protagonist go vigilante killer will increase the feeling of grit. How gritty is this story supposed to be?