Okay, here's both the good and bad news. If you're heading off into the fifth dimension, do not expect someone to lead you. You're on your own. Don't look to Dante or anyone else. When you're in that cosmic vortex, you are the leader. YOU tell US what it's like. Get creative! Amaze us with your imagination and your linguistic virtuosity! Dazzle us with the brilliance of your original imagery! There's no getting away from this. You sound like you want to reach great heights by hanging onto someone else's coattails, by flying on someone else's wings. Be original. Be unprecedented. Show us the way. Show Dante the way. Earn your own way into the pantheon.
A trailblazer i have no aim to be. But from the lack of any solid chunk of library space dedicated to the other sides I fear I am in very thin company. I will continue what I do, no matter how flawed it may come. Perhaps with practice clarity will follow. I do however have other more terrestrial writing. The problem is in everyone i have to scold my MC's into being earthbound. Like when they look out thier window and see what could possibly be a stranger in a black sedan lighting a very odd looking pipe and wearing a hat that is just as alien.... NO! i have to tell him. This is a story about a college kid trying to write a thesis in his first apartment. Not a story about how leperachauns live in both this and another world as gate keepers to some interdimensional blackmarket of soul contracts for a dark entity that would make satan and cthulu crap thier pants. Now get back to staring at the fridge and commenting internally on how that fly reminds you of a kid that killed himself when you were both in tenth grade. NO! it's not the same kid that reincarnated into the body of the fly and no we can't let the fly tell the story!! Focus our i'll kill you off in less than five thousand words! No you really really don't find that more interesting than homework! That's it *shuts laptop and turns on discovery channel*
Well, I wouldn't say I NEVER budge. I budge when someone convinces me of their argument through reason and logic. Arguments made from emotion really don't move me though. There are no doubt people (probably many) in this world who will find me offensive, but that's their problem. I can moderate my tone and be nicey nice when I want, but sometimes one just has to assert oneself and say 'strap on a pair and stop being wet' to whoever is having a precious snowflake moment.
Okay kallithrix Over the Top visuals are the only way certain very influencial styles and artists have pushed the envelope and delivered the most unique and soul stirring narratives. Not the least of which include Niel Gaimen, Dante, The Bible, The Quran, Hunter S. Thompson, Dr. Suess, Shel silverstein... Not to mention, Alice in wonderland, Wizard of Oz, Peter Pan... The Classic works of Homer, The golden age of sci-fi, The screenplays of the psychodelic movement of the sixties, The music of literally hundreds of song writers.... Really if it wasn't for artists reaching for a world beyond our own and coming back describing thier travels in impossible unliteral terms, well we'd have no idea of the shores of R'lyeh. Nor would we ponder the gates of heaven or dare to gaze into the reaches of hell. Or, have any idea what eight days in the desert high on mesceline, adernichrome, and a suitcase full of other narcotics, could tell us about the death of the american dream. Dreams! How does one portray the explosion of an infinite number of penguins or the systematic disappearing of a cat down to his grin left lingering... God and the very quaqmire of philosophy is the byproduct of reaching beyond the literal. My talent falls flat in the face of those who have have gone beyond 'literal' words to describe the very nonliteral realms of the soul, the stars, the gods, sanity, the afterlife, the beforelife, the universes in the quarks of atoms, the social habits of molecules and monsters. If you are not one to read beyond your own five and a half senses that's fine, but no one should be told how they should be beaten to death because they don't aspire to write like you, or read what you do. Logically sir, that's a bit fascist, even if presented in jest.
These sentences are much to clunky for me to find interesting. I understand the image you're trying to convey* after a little thought, but it's neither a clear nor strong one. Work more on word choice (less is more!) and simplify. * minus "the colour of burnt anxiety" bit. This makes no sense whatsoever to me - and I see and hear everything as a colour.
I don't believe in heaven, or hell, and I am so not interested in Hunter S Thompson or Neil Gaiman. Lewis Carroll and Homer I do like, but one thing they have in common is that in an allegorical or figurative way, they make SENSE. You don't find yourself reading a load of random words strung together and wondering what the hell kind of image they're getting at. You can picture everything they describe with perfect clarity - because they may be poetic and figurative, but they are also communicating a coherent idea, representing a concrete image. They did not just select a bunch of arty sounding words and shove them all together in any old order hoping it would sound clever. Drugs, or the experience of being on drugs, doesn't interest me. Nor does the American Dream. I would suggest: DON'T. Reading about other people's dreams is tedious. When I see dreams in published novels, I think 'amateur, clumsy and self indulgent attempt at visual symbolism.' If you find yourself writing dream sequences in your novel, go and slap yourself very hard, splash cold water in your face and then delete it. Incidentally, if you're the type of person who loves to describe your dreams to your friends over lunch, you're probably the type of person no one wants to have lunch with. If your true friends listen and nod when you describe your crazy adventures with exploding penguins, they are humoring you. Inside they are wondering whether they should have a grande skinny cappuccino with an extra shot, or a fat free decaff vanilla latte - and hoping you will shut up soon so they can go get one. I do not believe in god. Ah, now I see. You just like to wax poetical. Well, I freely admit I have no poetry in my soul - if I have a soul at all (not sure I believe in that either). I have no care for music either. Oh please... another precious snowflake. I thought you were all 'oh that's fine, I took it as a joke...' Hypocrite. P.S I'm female, even if I'm not a delicate flower.
I appreciated the first sentence (jolting juxtaposition); not so much the second. I've studied synesthesia, so hearing colors or seeing sounds, I get. I can see why people think these are nonsense metaphors, though. We try our best to be descriptive, to describe the indescribable; sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If something is implausible, I find a way to make it plausible. I see this as my job as a writer. We find things flying around us and try to catch them and pin them down and show them to people. We're kind of like butterfly catchers. I don't know if I can tell you anything new in regards to authors who are good at this, but if you're interested in synesthesia, there are some great books out there. Synesthetes do have the challenge of making people understand their odd and unique condition, and sometimes they do so quite colorfully. Blue Cats and Chartreuse Kittens by Patricia Lynne Duffy is pretty good, as is The Man Who Tasted Shapes by Richard Cytowic.
I'm just going to point out here that, as someone with synesthesia, I still found the sentences awkward.
Kall, You don't believe in god, or music, or soul, or really anything that goes beyond your know capacity. Ok, that's cool, that i get. But if not for these things things society and the definition of humanity would be a rather bleak terrain. Gathering from your tone, a bleak terrain is your perfered outlook. Delicate flower i am not, trust on that sister. I just question your motives when instead of bringing one constructive syllable to the conversation you crash in to prove how brooding and bleak your take on art is. And how anyone who doesn't subscribe to what your saying is a delicate flower?? Being insulting and brass are virtues, no doubt, but when it is in response to someone asking "Hey this is what i'm trying to do, who should i be reading?" It's just redundant. The dreams bit was in refrence to a Adam douglas line in 'Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy' and the chestire cat. I thought it was obvious. No, I'm not the type who tells my dreams to my friends. I really do suggest trying out some Neil Gaimen. He will go down in history as the 'next level'. His skill is intimidating and unquestionable. And Hunter... is universal in his own way. Come out and play a bit. Listen to some beatles and watch an episode of 'Xavier: Renegade Angel.' Just because you don't believe in a world outside your own nihilistic self doesn't mean that people aren't looking for it. So much so, and in such a direct influence to the history of the human psyche and devolopement of every aspect of society, that it deserves your respect if not your subscription. And how can you not be interested in any type of music?? Just because you are the way you are doesn't refute my solid and concise defense of an aspect of art that is essential. Trust when i say this though, the world is much larger and stranger than you think you know. If you in need of a hug to brighten up your day, well I give stellar hugs. It's quite unliterally like being wrapped up in the banishment of all your fears. And to Yoshi, I know they are a bit awkward on thier own. I strive to better ever line i write. That's my point. If i want to improve my pacing i study the Great Gatsby or Alan Ginsberg's work. If I'm trying to improve my description of the absurd i ask who i should be studying. Joanna, thanks for the recommendation.
K-lob i have six inches from me right now 'The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster' that i accidently stole from a swede on a flight from california. (long story) But by god, that book changed my entire perspective on biology teachers and the evolution of the male nipple. To you i say a good arrrging friday!
mhmmm accidentally suuuure. But despite your methods I'm glad you were touched by his noodley appendage.
Kali, I agree. Really, dreams? That's something only an amateur like Fyodor Dostoevsky would include in his novel. The sentences could use work but the idea isn't necessarily bad. Synesthesia's a real and fascinating phenomena.
I could go on for days about sage visions, oracle trances, shaman walkabouts, ritual ascension, astral projection, remote viewing, 'second level dreaming,' alien induced synesthesia, and good 'ol fashion drug induced hallucinations.. all found in really good literature. I think kall has more against me and my two lines than she does against the use of such things in general. What I try to do is riskier, as writing goes, because if not handled perfectly it is utter crap. This I understand. I do not handle it perfectly. That is why I opened this discussion. To maybe learn about some authors I haven't yet, and get pointed in the right direction. If anyone thinks this is a futile path because of thier own prefrences, well the library of human thought is a huge place. They can find some other study group.
I don't really like how we've gone from a guy asking for a book recommendation to improve his writing, to a full scale attack on the writer's style and now it seems we're bordering on a philosophical debate... If the guy wants to write about dreams let the guy write about dreams. He already said that the sentences themselves are taken out of context, therefore a tad confusing and he also admits he has long way to go, which is why he started this thread in the first place. I know that you guys are allowed to express your opinions, but it doesn't really seem constructive or appropriate...
RusticOnion, I totally agree with you. I responded to an invitation/provocation I should have ignored. I may be a stone cold bitch but I am still human, and find it hard to resist red rags. I'm done with this now.
Kallithrix the only reason you came in to post was to tell me specifically how stupid my endeavors are, based on your prefrences. Your demeanor was questioned becaused it lacked tact and ettiquete. That hug is still on the table though.
Well, sorry if you thought it was rude or tactless. I did not enter the thread with that specific intention, I just read your post, had a gut reaction, and expressed it. My PMS should come with a health warning. It's ok, really. I dislike consoling hugs, especially from strangers where you end up feeling like some kind of emotional charity case. Most hugs are just gratuitous and awkward.
Not mine missy. My hugs are awesome. The furthest thing from awkward And we're no strangers, you and I. Not anymore. You ever realize how awkardly spelt awkward is? It may be the awkwardest word I've ever written. That's saying something too. Just a few posts ago I typed up "jackpawed."
Ok, I guess once you've had an argument with someone you progress to acquaintences I was wondering what the hell that meant... I presumed it was more of your nonsensical word dysentery
I do winky faces when I am tweaking someone's nose - in that case, exactly what I was doing. I do not use them as 'oh, I was only kidding, please don't take offense' excuses for an apology.
Oh ok good, the "Oh I was only kidding, please don't take that offense" excuse is one of my pet peeves. But what does tweaking someones nose mean?
