1. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    The Impact of Wiping Out Entire Galaxies In The Universe

    Discussion in 'Research' started by LordWarGod, Oct 30, 2018.

    So, in my world, we have a weapon called a Wreath that can wipe out a galaxy within seconds or even multiple galaxies depending on which civilization it is. There is a great war that rages on for a thousand years where star systems, galaxies and eventually entire swathes of the universe are wiped out almost instantly.

    Near the end of the war, the universe is described as being pitch black dark with no lights, stars or galaxies in sight when one traveled in a spaceship. I'm wondering just how accurate this would actually be since you'd have to take into account relativity of time and how long it takes for light to travel through the universe.

    Would the night sky be as barren as I describe it to be over a period of 1,000 years when more 3/4th of the galaxies in the universe has been wiped out? Or would they still be there, their light traveling towards us and everything would seem as if nothing had happened? Would it have to take much longer for such an effect to take place?
     
  2. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    As I understand the first law of thermodynamics (and this is not a very deep understanding)... matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed. So I'm wondering what you mean by "wiping out" the galaxies.

    That said - as I understand it, we estimate that the edge of the "visible" universe is measure in billions of light years. So a war that lasted a thousand years wouldn't have an observable effect on the visible light universe-wide. But I think most of the stars visible to the naked eye are much, much closer. So if your characters were travelling through one of the areas that had been destroyed (once you establish what that means in terms of the first law) I think they'd be in darkness.
     
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  3. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    The Wreath is basically a weaponized gamma ray burst that sends high concentrations of gamma radiation in every direction that will basically unbind the atomic structures of anything within its vicinity. A normal gamma ray can destroy a star system but a Wreath can destroy multiple galaxies. It doesn't completely destroy matter, it simply just unbinds matter to make it no longer what it is.

    But it's like I thought, it would likely take much longer before the universe would be pitch-black dark even if all the galaxies in the universe disappeared instantly. The light is still traveling towards us and we still won't see any light coming from galaxies billions of light years away because they're still traveling towards us. Guess I could settle for vast swathes of space being empty and black in all direction relative to the people inside the spaceship instead.
     
  4. Vandor76

    Vandor76 Senior Member

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    Most of the stars we see without a telescope are within a few thousand lightyears. The two galaxies that are bright enough for the naked eye are our own Milkyway that can be seen as a faint stripe on the night sky and the Andromeda galaxy, 2 million lightyears away, an even fainter patch. If the entire Universe is wiped out except these two we would not see the difference. If you would look out from a spaceship traveling between galaxies, you won't see stars out there, just one or maybe two galaxies, but even these would be barely visible.

    Of course, if you have telescopes, that is another case. There are billions of galaxies out there and just the well-known ones are thousands. Their distance varies but it is sure millions of lightyears and up. Your war should be a thousand times older than "thousand years" to allow enough time for light (or lack of it) to reach us. When these galaxies would start to disappear, astronomers would notice that within a few years or even faster.

    You're mixing hard and soft sci-fi elements and try to make the whole thing consistent. If your novel has something that is able to wipe out a region millions of lightyears wide in a second, then you don't need to worry about how long does it take for light to reach us, just handwave something and make up any kind of advanced faster-than-light communication device :)
     
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  5. exweedfarmer

    exweedfarmer Banned Contributor

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    It's science fiction, it doesn't have to make sense, only sound somewhat plausible. People love facts and hold them dear to their heart, but there really aren't any. Go, do, have fun, you're a story teller!
     
  6. Artifacs

    Artifacs Senior Member

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    The gamma ray burts destroy star systems not because it unbinds matter but because a huge Radiation Pressure (Young Vector)

    Take into account that a gamma ray bursts has a bunch of wavelengths that can't see subatomic particles, they're just big enough to unbind molecules or produce atom Ionization.

    To put in easy words, the Weapon must Concentrate a lot of energy in a small space, if it just sends away a huge burts, the wave must mantain its power in the product Surface-Brightness. As it travels through the space, if covers more and more Spherical Surface so to keep the product constant, Brightness lowers.
    It's similar as the light of a Light bulb does.
     
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  7. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    Ah, I stand corrected, I'll be changing it to molecules instead. So, if I understand it correctly, it will instead "shatter" the molecular binds of objects? To break them apart due to the pressure of excessive radiation? I could have the weapon be powered by the energy of several stars, it would be similar to how a Dyson Ring would theoretically work but weaponized. Wouldn't that be enough energy to allow the momentum of power to continue undisturbed before diminishing?

    Very interesting stuff! Thank you for that.
     
  8. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    The book I'm writing is technically a science-fiction history book set in an universe that I created. I strive to make it as realistic as possible while keeping everything interesting that it doesn't sound like a boring history or science textbook.
     
  9. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    I don't like to hand-wave things, I like to produce reasonable explanations for them otherwise I feel like I'm lost when writing. Gamma ray bursts are very real things in our universe that can actually destroy a star system or two. I try to produce a reasonable explanation for how it could destroy an entire galaxy by harnessing the energy of several stars to produce a huge burst instantly and simultaneously akin to the theoretical Dyson Ring idea where the energy of a star powers the technology.

    But as for the stars/galaxies in the night sky, I'm probably going to have to tone it down a little bit but at least make it apparent that there are several galaxies missing now that cannot be found anymore.
     
  10. exweedfarmer

    exweedfarmer Banned Contributor

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    Okay, I know I made my point earlier but.... What makes you think the atomic theory of matter is correct? I've never seen an atom, have you? Why do you think that it would take energy or radiation to dismantle something that might not exist. It's science fiction. The real question is, does it make a good story?
     
  11. Artifacs

    Artifacs Senior Member

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    There are two main effects of a (for example) SuperNova burst:
    1) Radiation Pressure, would tear stars systems apart turning stars into ionized gas nebulae many years lights away.
    2) Molecular interaction: If a SpaceShip, Planet, or something "solid" is in its way far enough not to be Smashed by de shockwave, it just would fry up, burn forever, Adios Muchachos.
    It's hard to think of anything that could gather the kind of energy released in (for example) a SuperNova. If you can come up with some weapon like that, think of some other (and perhaps inexplicable) source of energy. Like creating a Graviton Drain Engine that turns Gravitons into photons. The black hole could shrink a little at every shot. Also, The black hole can be (theoricatly) created on board of some Huge Ship by also creating a White Hole at the same time.[/QUOTE]
     
  12. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    Again, it's not exactly a story but rather a science-fiction themed history book based on 60,000 or so years of history in the universe which was written by a God. It's quite complex and detailed which is why I want everything to be consistent, it's a difficult goal for sure but I still want to try it.
     
  13. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    That works for my story, a weaponized gamma ray burst would be devastating to anything near it. I just kind of wanted there to be empty space left behind, like as if somebody used an eraser to get rid of it.

    Well, since each second of a gamma ray burst has the total energy output of a star's entire lifetime per second, it's not exactly unreasonable to assume that stars could be what would be needed to power such an immensely powerful explosion.

    White Holes don't exist though, at least not to my knowledge as there's no recorded evidence yet.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  14. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    If the characters traveled in ships that could reach nearly the speed of light (.9999999c) time would slowdown, relative the rest of the universe, enough for them to see their own handiwork.

    You leave Earth, blast off Andromeda, then fly around for four years by your own clock / two million years by Earth’s clock, and watch the lights go out.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  15. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    Other than the Big Bang.
     
  16. Artifacs

    Artifacs Senior Member

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    I can't think of anything to work that out. There'll always be some leftover.

    I guess so. You may create some sort of Huge Gun that swallows stars at once but, What would that gun be made of?[/QUOTE]

    Yes, I know. I just mentioned it in case you wanted consider some theoretical sci-fi.
     
  17. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    I don't know about that, I heard a theory about the Big Bang being the result of a super-massive black hole from another universe imploding.
     
  18. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    Another thing you could look into is the fact that any sufficiently high concentration of energy will create a black hole.
     
  19. Sixgun

    Sixgun New Member

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    Have you checked out the Xeelee Sequence? It deals with macro-macro-level science fiction and might help you. Ships made of compressed spacetime, eradication of Timelike Curves to destroy civilizations, stuff like that. Kind of mindbending but Stephen Baxter is a smart guy.
     
  20. Artifacs

    Artifacs Senior Member

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    Another possibility is to orbit a Black Hole with a huge Gravity field in its Event Horizon.
    I've never made the Math of the Gravity field in order to get some particular Gamma time factor but I believe it's possible and doesn't consume fuel.
     
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  21. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    Right, a white hole.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    Bad ass idea.

    Edit: but would escaping the orbit of the black hole have less of a fuel cost than accelerating to near c anyway? Seems like the same thing maybe.
     
  23. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    I see, then it's the same thing. I thought it was something else.
     
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  24. Artifacs

    Artifacs Senior Member

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    There's a trick for "enter" a Black Hole and "exit" from it with more energy than you got before entering.
    Think it's called the Penrose Effect.. Also, Kip Thorne says that a Gamma time factor depends of the BH (Schwarschild's standard or spinning). Unlimited for the first, 60000 (max) for the second.
     
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  25. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    Thanks for the tips! I’ll check it out.
     

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