The not happy thread

That's a great point you made Nonnie.

 

I am sad for all the death and violence in the world, even the deaths of people who made mistakes.

I can understand the anger toward certain people. But I prefer mercy to retribution, and wish for reforms to reduce such behaviors. To make such behavior less profitable. This is not to say that I think people who commit crimes should go free, but that changes need to be made to prevent crime, and prevention and, when necessary, seperation of certain people from society, is preferable to death.

Statistically, people born under certain circumstances are much more likely to commit certain crimes than those born under different circumstances. There therefore has to be some influence regarding the way things are structured that goes beyond simple free will choice taking. There must therefore be a better way.

Every drug dealer was once a suckling infant in the arms of his mother, was once a five year old who wanted only the love of parents and friends and to play and get a good education. Would that we save the five year old, and prevent him from growing up to be the drug dealer killed.

Charlie

 

I DID mean it in the American way....

Just kidding. Ok note to self: in future say 'keep your chin up.'

I laugh the same way when Americans say 'fanny pack' or 'sit your fanny down.'

 

Not to get in a snit with people who are obviously not old enough to understand what the reality of consequences are, but...

The roads we each take are ours to choose. Af course. As soon as your road has fallout on my path, yeah, I have a problem with that. My husband is a good, kindhearted person, and you want me to see him and value him that same as a drug dealer?

You are talking out of your ass.

 

-shrugs- I was taught that no person is less worthy of kindness than another person. Oh, and I may be young but I'd appreciate it if you didn't pretend like you know what I have and haven't been through. Maybe I just feel that because one of my best friends was shot and killed by a crack dealer in downtown richmond and I was able to forgive them, that adults like yourself would be as equally mature about hard times.

My mistake.

 

The problem i have with drug dealers is that they don't just effect one person (The addicted), but screw around with whole societies from the bottom up.

 

I can see both sides but there's no need to get personal.

Nonnie just meant that showing disregard for the death of a fellow human being was dangerous. She wasn't saying your husband is less worthy than a drug dealer. We don't know your husband at all so it's difficult for us to feel as strongly as you do.

 

You don't measure maturity by how many evil people you can forgive. Sorry, but that's madness.

 

I agree with Wreybies on this. Drug dealers are WILLINGLY a menace to society by peddling illegal substances and often engaging in violence to achieve their ends (ie. gettin' paid, "son.") I totally place more value on my loved ones than I do on scum like drug dealers.

The fact that they were an infant once is irrelevant. They are now regardless of what they were or what they will become and if they endanger someone now for no reason other than whatever petty crime they wish to commit, then they must face the consequences. These consequences can range from their imprisonment to their death. They know what they do and they must face judgment eventually.

EDIT: Ashleigh also makes a good point: maturity is not about forgiveness, in this instance. Forgiveness applies to many things; the possible murder of your loved one because of some dumbass drug dealer's "turf" war is not a time to worry about forgiving the lowlifes.

 

Totally helpful.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be punished for what they do by any means. I think everyone should take responsibility for their actions, and if that means they get killed one day than okay, thats fine, but I'm not going to be indifferent to another persons death because they werent a 'good person'.

Hell, if were gonna talk responsibility and consequence than maybe wreybies husband shouldn't work in a dangerous place or maybe wreybies should except the consequences of his loved ones working in a dangerous place and stop blaming his fear on other people.

 

However the obviously condescending tone Wreybies had, while a little understandable under the circumstances, was not warranted. We must remember that we are on an internet forum and people cannot possibly know where their fellow posters are coming from all the time.

We've all had our own lives and since most of us don't know each other in person, it is difficult sometimes to reconcile these experiences.

 

He is your husband. We all value those close to us, because they have a great impact on our lives.

Some drug dealers just might also be a good, kindhearted people. I would expect that his or her spouse, mother, father, children and friends would value him or her more than they'd value your husband, because that's the nature of things. People value those close to them.

"Drug dealer" is a pretty wide term. Sometimes a "drug dealer" is an 11 year old child with a couple joints in his pocket... or, in this "zero tolerance" world, a couple Tylenol in his pocket. Sometimes it's a person trying to feed his starving baby who's been rejected by every job and pressured into the "business" by his parents or siblings.

Intrinsically, though, all people are of value.

As a Unitarian Universalist, that is part of my religion. The first principle reminds me that every person is important, and I believe it to the depths of my soul.

Nor do I believe in the existence of an "evil person." Misguided people, damaged people, yes. Even people who have committed unspeakably evil actions, and people who need to be separated from society. But "evil" I apply to actions, not to individuals.

Things are rarely as cut-and-dry as they appear on TV or in fiction, though. In real life, people's stories are complicated.

Charlie

 

Stop blaming his fear on men with guns, and instead blame it on himself for walking out the door in the first place?
Yeah, your entire outlook on this is fundamentally flawed i'm afraid, Nonnie.

It's not Wrey and his husband's "responsibility" to cowar away in their homes in case the bad guys come out. It's their responsibility to live their lives as best they can, and take action where it's due.

I would do and feel the exact same way in their situation, and I totally understand how Wrey is feeling about this...I don't see why it needs to be questioned.

 

Agreed, but my advice is: if it's really that sensitive of a subject, don't bitch about in online :3

I believe thats a beautiful way to think.

 

I see the value in what both Nonnie and Charlie say. However, no matter how good these drug dealers may be, they are the ones putting others in harm's way. I know some drug dealers and drug users. They can be nice people, I won't dispute that. The fact remains, they play with their own lives and the lives of others. To discount their deaths may sound inhuman but it is not my place to mourn every lost soul in this world. They have family and friends to do that for them.

EDIT: I don't think Wrey is "bitching." He is very legitimately concerned and he obviously wanted to voice these concerns out loud. And I agree with what Ashleigh said wholeheartedly. To blame Wrey or his husband for working in a dangerous area is unsound.

 

Hey, maybe you should pay closer attention. I didn't tell them to be afraid of anything.

 

Drug dealers only exist to meet a demand.

There is far less danger to upwardly mobile middle class people who use coke at the weekends than there is to people supplying their irresponsible habit. Are either of them any more blameworthy than the other?

I think people can easily identify with where you're coming from Wreybies. Just not the "it's fine unless on my turf" attitude.

 

True. Certainly this is why I shun all drugs (beyond my bipolar medication and the occasional ibuprofen or antibiotic) including alcohol. I consider both to have equal blame, anyways. Drug users are there by choice, drug dealers are there by choice. Though, in low-income/low-education environments, one could argue drug dealers turn to their profession out of necessity.

 

I believe Ashleigh was referring to the above quote. It is NOT Wreybies' husband's fault he works in a dangerous area. Wreybies is not blaming his fear on other people, his fear is a direct result of these drug dealers and their actions, therefore making Wreybies' fear a very justifiable concern.

 

This is true. I believe that drug addiction should be treated as a medical issue, not a criminal issue. If that were the case, there would be a lot less crime, a lot less violence, and people who need treatment would be able to get treatment for their medical condition, instead of hiding and fearing prison.

Charlie

 

Unfortunately, I don't believe that it is quite so simple. Drug addiction is a medical issue. However, drug possession and drug dealing is a criminal issue.

 

Mm, I can understand that then. But I don't see how being cold towards drug dealers makes him any less afraid or his husband anymore safe. Actually, angry people only make situations like this more dangerous.

 

Yes, the laws make that the case. I believe the laws need to be changed.

Without laws against, there would be no violence, no innocent people getting shot and killed, and those with addictions would be able to get needed medical treatment, instead of being put in prison.

As with alcohol, legalization would allow the legal control of the substance and take away the stigmas so that people can get into programs like A.A. and N.A. instead of going to prison. Being an alcoholic or being in posession of a liquer store doesn't get you put in jail, and people don't shoot each other over the ownership of a store that sells vodka and burbon.

In a sense... the bartender and the liquor store clerk are "drug dealers." Alcohol... and for that matter, tobacco... are drugs, every bit as addictive and harmful to the health as the drugs people are shooting each other over.

Few people have ill will against the bartender, though. Certainly not many people say they don't care when the local bartender dies.

Charlie

 

I'm un-happy because... well... I reached a crossroads and chose the wrong and frankly immature path... since then I have changed and life has been boring, yet I still suffer from delusions of grandeur and a general sense of foreboding... that's been the last 3 years...

I'm almost positive I'm bi-polar as well...

 

If it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure half of the people here suffer from delusions of grandeur :3 So you won't be alone

Oh, and I recently got diagnosed with bi-polarism. It's not so bad.